Random Questions Thread

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

I may have this wrong, but isn’t the land debate about it being a promise to Abraham, so no matter what his descendants do (repent or not) it was a promise to Abraham, so God would fulfill that promise to Abraham?

Straighten me out if that’s off.

As Amanah pointed out, the promise of returning to the land by Israel is conditioned upon their repentance and getting right with God. Abraham has title to the land, but his heirs only get possession if they are in good standing with God. And for 2000 some odd years that means being Christian. Those among Abraham's descendants who reject Christ are cut off from the olive tree ("Israel"). So they would have zero claim to any inheritance except for the curses of disobedience (eg Deut 28).

God DID fulfill that promise to Abraham when his descendants left Egypt and set up in Canaan. And the lease conditions, if you will, are still in effect: be faithful = enjoy the land, be unfaithful = be evicted from the land and others will get to live there.

That being the case, it follows that any people group controlling or possessing Palestine while NOT being faithful to Christ must of necessity be a people group OTHER than the descendants of Abraham, regardless of what they call themselves.

[Apostolic1ness]

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

Due to diaspora, they are not genetically verifiable Judeans.
They are cultural and religious Jews.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...0(Baron%201952).

[shag]

Rom. 2:28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision.

29No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit.

It would seem that even if they could(but can’t) track their bloodline, it would only matter that they have a circumcised heart toward Christ to be a “true Jew.”.

[shag]

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

The "Jews" in "Israel" are neither Judeans nor are they Israel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the “Jews” in Israel are not “Jews”?

What’s a Jew?

Could you define what an Israeli is, and what a Jew is?
Are all Israelis Jews? If yes, explain why? If no explain why?
Is Ivanka Trump a Jew like Chuck Schumer? If yes, please explain why? If not please explain why?

[shag]

I think there are tons of sincere people that just don’t understand, because they’ve been misled, and haven’t searched it out, but just trust what they’re being taught…

This evening, my Pastor preached on Israel. (UPC disp)
After the meeting was over, I went to three different people that have been attending for at least 20 to 25 years. As a matter of fact, two of the three have attended for probably 35 or 40 years.
I asked them if they believed what is being referred to as God’s chosen people Jews were in right standing with God and saved.
They all basically said they believe “some of them are and some of them are not, because God knows their heart….one added “we can’t really judge”.
One of the three also mentioned that “there are some that are not because they have some problems”, whatever that exactly meant.

I believe that is the consensus of most people in the assembly. Because of the way they’ve been taught.

I just bit my tongue, smiled and said “thank you, I was just curious of how you looked at that”.


It was all I could take to set though yet another…

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by shag

I think there are tons of sincere people that just don’t understand, because they’ve been misled, and haven’t searched it out, but just trust what they’re being taught…

This evening, my Pastor preached on Israel. (UPC disp)
After the meeting was over, I went to three different people that have been attending for at least 20 to 25 years. As a matter of fact, two of the three have attended for probably 35 or 40 years.
I asked them if they believed what is being referred to as God’s chosen people Jews were in right standing with God and saved.
They all basically said they believe “some of them are and some of them are not, because God knows their heart….one added “we can’t really judge”.
One of the three also mentioned that “there are some that are not because they have some problems”, whatever that exactly meant.

I believe that is the consensus of most people in the assembly. Because of the way they’ve been taught.

I just bit my tongue, smiled and said “thank you, I was just curious of how you looked at that”.


It was all I could take to set though yet another…

In Ecclesiastes Solomon said:
"The greater my wisdom, the greater my grief.
To increase knowledge only increases sorrow."

I'm betting your church mates are happy as clams.
As the saying goes "ignorance is bliss"

It's God's Church so it's up to Him to sort things out.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shag

I think there are tons of sincere people that just don’t understand, because they’ve been misled, and haven’t searched it out, but just trust what they’re being taught…

This evening, my Pastor preached on Israel. (UPC disp)
After the meeting was over, I went to three different people that have been attending for at least 20 to 25 years. As a matter of fact, two of the three have attended for probably 35 or 40 years.
I asked them if they believed what is being referred to as God’s chosen people Jews were in right standing with God and saved.
They all basically said they believe “some of them are and some of them are not, because God knows their heart….one added “we can’t really judge”.
One of the three also mentioned that “there are some that are not because they have some problems”, whatever that exactly meant.

I believe that is the consensus of most people in the assembly. Because of the way they’ve been taught.

I just bit my tongue, smiled and said “thank you, I was just curious of how you looked at that”.


It was all I could take to set though yet another…

Biting one’s tongue is truly an admirable superpower. Much respect my brother.
Having to school those who aren’t being led by God to sincerely search for truth is casting pearl. The sadness is that these poor souls can’t see that they are believing another Gospel. Which there isn’t another. But they believe as some Christians that there is another way of salvation other than the Cross of Christ.