Christmas is pagan

[mfblume]

1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

Paul said that meat offered to idols is ONLY MEAT if one understands there is really only one God, and meat offered to idols is offered to non-existent gods. And since it's ONLY MEAT, then eat it. But if it offends your conscience, because you've got a weak conscience, then you must refrain. Same as Christmas. If your heart knows the reality that there are no other actual gods, and it's ONLY giving gifts and decorating a tree, then it's innocent. It matters what's in the heart when one does it. God does not judge you for idolatry if your heart acknowledged no false god and you gave gifts and decorated a tree with no intentions of idolatry whatsoever.

Rom 14:14.. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean...
Rom 14:15.. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died...

Rom 14:22.. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth...

1Co 8:4.. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one...
1Co 8:5.. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)..
1Co 8:6.. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him...
1Co 8:7.. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled...
1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

[Originalist]

[shag]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

Paul said that meat offered to idols is ONLY MEAT if one understands there is really only one God, and meat offered to idols is offered to non-existent gods. And since it's ONLY MEAT, then eat it. But if it offends your conscience, because you've got a weak conscience, then you must refrain. Same as Christmas. If your heart knows the reality that there are no other actual gods, and it's ONLY giving gifts and decorating a tree, then it's innocent. It matters what's in the heart when one does it. God does not judge you for idolatry if your heart acknowledged no false god and you gave gifts and decorated a tree with no intentions of idolatry whatsoever.

Rom 14:14.. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean...
Rom 14:15.. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died...

Rom 14:22.. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth...

1Co 8:4.. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one...
1Co 8:5.. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)..
1Co 8:6.. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him...
1Co 8:7.. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled...
1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

Where does this leave participating in helloween?

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

Paul said that meat offered to idols is ONLY MEAT if one understands there is really only one God, and meat offered to idols is offered to non-existent gods. And since it's ONLY MEAT, then eat it. But if it offends your conscience, because you've got a weak conscience, then you must refrain. Same as Christmas. If your heart knows the reality that there are no other actual gods, and it's ONLY giving gifts and decorating a tree, then it's innocent. It matters what's in the heart when one does it. God does not judge you for idolatry if your heart acknowledged no false god and you gave gifts and decorated a tree with no intentions of idolatry whatsoever.

Rom 14:14.. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean...
Rom 14:15.. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died...

Rom 14:22.. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth...

1Co 8:4.. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one...
1Co 8:5.. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)..
1Co 8:6.. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him...
1Co 8:7.. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled...
1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

Originally Posted by shag

Where does this leave participating in helloween?

Same thing, when I was a kid coming up in the church we used to always, go trick or treating. Even the pastors kids, but as I grew up and more people came into the church that did not agree with trick or treating the church started to have what we called harvest parties so as not to offend those that thought evil of it.

As my old pastor used to teach, you can make anything a sin is you want to. It is what is in the heart that matters.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1Co 8:8.. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse...

Paul said that meat offered to idols is ONLY MEAT if one understands there is really only one God, and meat offered to idols is offered to non-existent gods. And since it's ONLY MEAT, then eat it. But if it offends your conscience, because you've got a weak conscience, then you must refrain. Same as Christmas. If your heart knows the reality that there are no other actual gods, and it's ONLY giving gifts and decorating a tree, then it's innocent. It matters what's in the heart when one does it. God does not judge you for idolatry if your heart acknowledged no false god and you gave gifts and decorated a tree with no intentions of idolatry whatsoever.

1. Your line of reasoning allows for veneration of statues and icons of saints. Such veneration is called "worship of idols" unless the statues are Christian saints, then it is claimed to be done in honor to God, a matter of "what is in the heart."

2. Your reasoning allows for veneration of crosses and crucifixes. Bowing down to wooden statues is idolatry when done by pagans, but when the wooden statue or emblem is repurposed to represent Christ, it is okay, because "your heart acknowledged no false god."

3. Paul gives more information on the very subject under discussion in 1 Cor 10:

1 Corinthians 10:18-22 KJV (18) Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? (19) What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? (20) But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

The apostle declared that participating in religious customs puts you in fellowship with the GOD SERVED BY THOSE RITES. The heathen customs are DEMONIC. Participation in heathen religious customs puts you in fellowship with DEMONS. Christians CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You cannot partake both of the Lord's table, and the table of demons. to put it simply, if you partake of the table of demons, you are cut off from the Lord's table. You cut off your fellowship with Christ.

4. Paul also addressed the issue of eating things sacrificed unto idols in that same chapter:

25
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26
For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.
27
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28
But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof:
29
Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?
30
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33
Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

If there is no overt idolatry associated with a piece of food sold in the market, then don't sweat it. If you order Chinese takeout don't fret about whether or not the cook burned some incense and made an offering to Buddha over your meal. However, and this is key, if it is pointed out that paganism is definitely involved, then DO NOT EAT. Why? To avoid even the appearance of countenancing and supporting idolatry.

5. Food sold in a market, and actual rituals of idolatry, are two very different things. A pine tree, even a tree sold at a Christmas tree lot, is just a tree. Just like "Christmas lights" are just stringed lights. Nothing wrong in and of themselves. But observing a pagan holy day, and replicating pagan ACTS OF WORSHIP (idolatrous rituals), using said tree or lights, is a whole nother matter. There is far more to Christmas than a random tree and a random decorating of said tree. It occurs on a particular day, on a yearly basis, for particular (religious) reasons. It is NOT just about home decor.

Suppose one bought food sold in the market place, and replicated the act of offering it in sacrifice to Zeus, as much as possible, so that it was DISTINCTLY the rite of Zeus, but simply said "Jesus" instead of Zeus, would Paul approve of that? Hardly.

6. The Law clearly forbids the replication and adaptation of pagan religious customs to the worship of Jehovah:

Deuteronomy 12:30-32 KJV (30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

It is expressly forbidden to worship God using pagan rites and customs!

Thou shalt not do SO - meaning "in that manner". What manner? Enquiring after the pagan religious customs, as to how they worshipped their demon gods.

Thou shalt not do so UNTO THE LORD - you shall NOT take pagan religious customs and ADAPT THEM TO THE WORSHIP OF THE TRUE GOD. It is EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. Repurposing pagan holy days, and ceremonies, to the worship of God, is SIN.

[Esaias]

Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.

Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

People do not understand the significance of a religious calendar in God's eyes. Part of the mark of ownership that God has with His people are the Divine Appointments. Those recurring holy days tell a Story, and recognizing them tells what Story you support and adhere to and are a part of.

Pagans likewise have their own "appointments", the pagan holy days. They, too, tell a story. And observing them tells which story you are part of. Dec 25 is one of those pagan holy days, observance of which identifies you with its story, the story of Baal, Nimrod, Saturn, Osiris, Mithra.

People attempt to excuse their paganism by switching the name of the god involved. Celebrating the calendar of Baal/Mithra, with the rituals of Baal/Mithra, while calling him "Jesus", doesn't cut it.

If God is pleased with your Christ's Mass celebrations, then you owe every trinitarian a hearty apology.

[Scott Pitta]

Ho Ho Ho

Merry Christmas

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.

Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

People do not understand the significance of a religious calendar in God's eyes. Part of the mark of ownership that God has with His people are the Divine Appointments. Those recurring holy days tell a Story, and recognizing them tells what Story you support and adhere to and are a part of.

Pagans likewise have their own "appointments", the pagan holy days. They, too, tell a story. And observing them tells which story you are part of. Dec 25 is one of those pagan holy days, observance of which identifies you with its story, the story of Baal, Nimrod, Saturn, Osiris, Mithra.

People attempt to excuse their paganism by switching the name of the god involved. Celebrating the calendar of Baal/Mithra, with the rituals of Baal/Mithra, while calling him "Jesus", doesn't cut it.

If God is pleased with your Christ's Mass celebrations, then you owe every trinitarian a hearty apology.

The video I posted seems to cast doubt on much of your reasoning. I'd like your input on it.

[navygoat1998]

Merry Christmas

[shag]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Ho Ho Ho

Merry Christmas

Zechariah 2:6
Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord;


What are the chances....