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  #1401  
Old 10-15-2014, 07:34 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Here are some things that Christianity teaches. (At least your version of it does, AFF. ) You should own it! Be proud of it! Christianity is the best religion in the world!

1. Every one of us is a sinner.

2. Every sinner deserves punishment. Really horrible punishment. Eternal torment. Yes. That's what we deserve for sinning. And we can't not sin, no matter how hard we try. It's pointless to try to be good: we can't. Even if we think we're good, we're not. Our righteousness is filthy rags.

3. Number 2 is because God is so holy and perfect, that He can't not punish sin, and punish it severely. You know, because we aren't perfect. And God is. That's why.

4. There's a way to get out of our derseved punishment. Turns out, if someone else is punished for us, we don't have to be punished. Isn't that awesome? Oh, but it can't be anyone. It has to be someone who doesn't deserve to be punished. Namely, God Himself. If God dies instead of us, and stays dead for three days, we're off the hook. And of course, God did this. He died and stayed dead for three days. So we could escape our just punishment. Isn't that cool?

5. Oh, but not everyone is issued that Get Out Of Hell Free card. Only some of us. A small part of us, actually. There is a "way" to get it, but that "way" is "narrow". Only a few of us will find it.

6. God gave us a book. An instruction manual. One that some people claim isn't very clear, but all anyone has to do is ask God to explain it, and He will. And anyone who says they did that, but understands it incorrectly, well, I guess they weren't sincere. Or something. And this book tells us how to get the card mentioned in 5. So you better understand it!

7. God does miracles. He'll do them for you. You just have to ask. Oh, but don't ask "amiss". Then He won't. Oh, and you have to ask something that's in accordance with His will. If He doesn't want to do something, He won't. Oh, and have faith. Believe you will get what you ask for, and, well, if all the other requirements are met, you will get it.

So. Any argument? Did I get anything wrong? I'm kinda prone to doing that, it seems.

Oh, and Mike, go ahead and point to this post as an example of me casting doubt. It is exactly what you believe. But I'm not allowed to list these things, exactly as you believe them, because, well, uh, I guess that's "mockery". If I got something wrong, be sure and let me know. And stating something accurately but "mockingly", if that's what you would say, doesn't count. Accurate is accurate.
Mock on and on and on. Wow, it's this extremism that is in your personality that has made this sort of thing a mission for you. It's like the atheist who cannot stand the fact that people believe in God.
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  #1402  
Old 10-15-2014, 07:57 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Here are some things that Christianity teaches. (At least your version of it does, AFF. ) You should own it! Be proud of it! Christianity is the best religion in the world!

1. Every one of us is a sinner.
No. Christians WERE sinners, but now are not since salvation.

Quote:

2. Every sinner deserves punishment. Really horrible punishment. Eternal torment. Yes. That's what we deserve for sinning. And we can't not sin, no matter how hard we try. It's pointless to try to be good: we can't. Even if we think we're good, we're not. Our righteousness is filthy rags.
There is that word DESERVE again. Where does this come from? This is a loaded statement. Who said anything about DESERVING it? That's why I said God decides who goes to hell or not, but where did this DESERVING thing come from? I do not even think in those terms when I think of hell.

Quote:
3. Number 2 is because God is so holy and perfect, that He can't not punish sin, and punish it severely. You know, because we aren't perfect. And God is. That's why.
Again, a skewed version of the actual picture. Show me one verse that says someone DESERVES hell.

Quote:
4. There's a way to get out of our derseved punishment. Turns out, if someone else is punished for us, we don't have to be punished. Isn't that awesome? Oh, but it can't be anyone. It has to be someone who doesn't deserve to be punished. Namely, God Himself. If God dies instead of us, and stays dead for three days, we're off the hook. And of course, God did this. He died and stayed dead for three days. So we could escape our just punishment. Isn't that cool?
Aside from the ever-mocking tone, the truth is God cannot die. God manifested in flesh and the humanity died since we are humans and must die. If GOD died, then we GODS must have been judged to die, too.

Quote:
5. Oh, but not everyone is issued that Get Out Of Hell Free card. Only some of us. A small part of us, actually. There is a "way" to get it, but that "way" is "narrow". Only a few of us will find it.
Actually, we are considered to have DIED the death penalty VIA Christ. No one got out of anything.

Quote:
6. God gave us a book. An instruction manual. One that some people claim isn't very clear, but all anyone has to do is ask God to explain it, and He will. And anyone who says they did that, but understands it incorrectly, well, I guess they weren't sincere. Or something. And this book tells us how to get the card mentioned in 5. So you better understand it!
Obfuscate the real issue all you like, as usual, but the truth is that the faith the bible teaches to have in the work of the cross for salvation IS SIMPLE to understand.

Quote:
7. God does miracles. He'll do them for you. You just have to ask. Oh, but don't ask "amiss". Then He won't. Oh, and you have to ask something that's in accordance with His will. If He doesn't want to do something, He won't. Oh, and have faith. Believe you will get what you ask for, and, well, if all the other requirements are met, you will get it.
Again, cynical avoidance of the actuality that asking amiss is seeking to enjoy sinful lusts with the answer.

Quote:
So. Any argument? Did I get anything wrong? I'm kinda prone to doing that, it seems.
You twisted everything as usual. lol

Quote:
Oh, and Mike, go ahead and point to this post as an example of me casting doubt. It is exactly what you believe.
The way you twisted the actual issues is indeed designed to spread doubt. You mock the God of the Bible. You do that purposely and word things the way you do solely to show others this view of God in the bible is wrong.

Quote:
But I'm not allowed to list these things, exactly as you believe them, because, well, uh, I guess that's "mockery".
It's not the way I believe them.

Quote:
If I got something wrong, be sure and let me know. And stating something accurately but "mockingly", if that's what you would say, doesn't count. Accurate is accurate.
Get some respect for a change. Phew.
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  #1403  
Old 10-16-2014, 09:27 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

Leaving the rest alone, for now (hilarious stuff, by the way: you should do standup!), do we or do we not deserve eternal punishment? Why don't you like that word? Do you actually believe we don't deserve it? Does nobody deserve it? Will the people in the lake of fire be there, even though they don't deserve it?
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  #1404  
Old 10-17-2014, 08:46 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

Sigh. OK, point by point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
No. Christians WERE sinners, but now are not since salvation.
Oh, you got me there. Man, what was I thinking? Saying we are all sinners? It completely slipped my mind that you guys are not sinners. Not anymore. Wow. How dumb of me.

Quote:


There is that word DESERVE again. Where does this come from? This is a loaded statement. Who said anything about DESERVING it? That's why I said God decides who goes to hell or not, but where did this DESERVING thing come from? I do not even think in those terms when I think of hell.


Again, a skewed version of the actual picture. Show me one verse that says someone DESERVES hell.
See above.

To paraphrase a certain famous Spaniard:

You keep not wanting me to use that word. I don't think it doesn't mean what you think it doesn't mean.



Quote:

Aside from the ever-mocking tone, the truth is God cannot die. God manifested in flesh and the humanity died since we are humans and must die. If GOD died, then we GODS must have been judged to die, too.
I posted a follow-up to this one. Here's a rewrite:
4. There's a way to get out of our deserved punishment. Turns out, if someone else is punished for us, we don't have to be punished. But it can't be just anyone. It has to be someone who doesn't deserve to be punished. Namely, God's own son, Jesus. If Jesus dies instead of us, and stays dead for about three days, we're off the hook. And of course, Jesus did this. He died and stayed dead for about three days, so we could escape our just punishment.

Quote:


Actually, we are considered to have DIED the death penalty VIA Christ. No one got out of anything.
I'll stick to my guns on this one. Yes. You are getting out of eternal punishment, in your theology. You cannot deny that. (Why would you?) Sure, say you are "considered to have DIED", if you want. But you can't possibly think that is a punishment! Considered, but not actually. That's the whole point of the Gospel: YOU DON'T HAVE TO DIE. I don't have to cite scriptures for that. You know them.

Quote:

Obfuscate the real issue all you like, as usual, but the truth is that the faith the bible teaches to have in the work of the cross for salvation IS SIMPLE to understand.
Funniest thing you've ever posted! SIMPLE? Yeah, that's why there are one zillion different ways to be saved, and counting. But your way is right. Those others are wrong.

And oh, please, don't correct "your way" -- you know exactly what I mean: "your" way is the way you "know" is the right way, and the only Biblically correct way. It's obvious to you but not to those who disagree, and you call it the "Bible's way" rather than your way, but so do others who have a different interpretation, and you know it!

I guess those others, who read the simply Bible and get something else from it, don't actually want to be saved? Or something?

Quote:
Again, cynical avoidance of the actuality that asking amiss is seeking to enjoy sinful lusts with the answer.
Uh huh. I asked amiss when I prayed for my brother's healing. And so did all the hundreds of others who prayed for his healing. We all asked amiss. Every. Single. One.

We were all seeking to enjoy sinful lusts with the (desired) answer. Yes, that explains everything!

You are sick.

Quote:

You twisted everything as usual. lol



The way you twisted the actual issues is indeed designed to spread doubt. You mock the God of the Bible. You do that purposely and word things the way you do solely to show others this view of God in the bible is wrong.



It's not the way I believe them.



Get some respect for a change. Phew.
Respect where respect is due? I have plenty of that.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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  #1405  
Old 10-17-2014, 08:48 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

BTW, I think you're the only one here that doesn't like my use of the word "deserve". Far as I know, they all would say "We all deserve hell". Argue with them.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
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  #1406  
Old 10-17-2014, 11:07 AM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Mock on and on and on. Wow, it's this extremism that is in your personality that has made this sort of thing a mission for you. It's like the atheist who cannot stand the fact that people believe in God.
I am glad certain people do believe in their version of their god, at least the type (not hard to find on AFF, btw) who testify, "I was a no good, low-down so-n-so until I found Jesus." (or, "until Jesus found me," whichever. ) Sometimes that kind of talk is just learned rhetorical church-talk, but some people really believe or know it, and for those people, I'm glad they have signed up with something that will presumably keep them from being a threat to society, to me, to my property, etc, etc. This same kind of person finds it unimaginable that a non-believer can have an internally effective moral compass without any kind of supernatural god handing them "truth" by speaking through ancient texts.

As for what any atheist hopes to achieve with everyone else (civilized people), it's practically same thing believers think they are doing--proclaiming truth. Of course, one group's standards for teasing out truth is to use only the processes of reason, and the other side uses the process of faith as "Truth" with a capital T, because it was handed down from ancient, sacred texts. Each claims the other's method is unreliable.

It's another form of ad hominem(rather than substantive argument) to rely on hot button code words that most Christians know doesn't address the issues, but does make someone appear "bad." Three examples,

1a. "Timmy's extreme personality." (BAD, BAD.)
b. But an extreme christian, extremely on fire for Jesus, who proclaims his faith everywhere whether welcomed or not, is extremely GOOD, GOOD.

2a. "Timmy's on a mission." (BAD, BAD, BAD.)
b. But christians plant their little missions on many lands, welcomed or not. And christian's entire life is supposed to be like one big mission. (GOOD, GOOD.)

3. "Mockery" (BAD, BAD.)
b. But when chistians mock other weird beliefs (just as weird as their own) it's accepted, such as at muslims or mormons. When Elijah mocked the false prophets "Your god must be sleeping!", and they ended up being slaughtered after getting mocked, that was GOOD, GOOD.

Point being that those who can show the better evidence that a bible based belief system doesn't make sense are called out as naughty, yet these behaviors are universal (and accepted) in the fundamentalist christian population too. So, try to address the issues, not the personalities.

True story, happened last week, an example of "personality", driven by worldview, in this case mine. I didn't use to do this to believers, preferring to live and let live. But I have now acquired the right to be just as "missionary minded" now as I used to be as apostolic. SO, I'm leaving the grocery store with a small bag in hand. In front of my car, a middle aged man greets me, and I return greeting. He holds out something for me to take, so I do. He explains, "I just like to give these away, here." I suddenly notice the inimitable style of a Chic tract, now in my hand. I say, "Well, I just like to give these back." (as I put in back in his hand.) I continue, "I was a Christian for 21 years, and it's a bunch of BS."

There is nothing more EXTREME personality wise, than a group of believers who try to persuade the world that a supposedly omniscient god, who makes himself invisible to his children, gives them a fantastical book of "information" indistinguishable from quacks, magicians, or other silly religions, also promises to eternally destroy anyone who doesn't love him back with all their hearts. Almost no one else on earth is that extreme!

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  #1407  
Old 10-17-2014, 12:33 PM
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Re: Timmy Talk

I've posted this before, but in case anyone missed it , this is my favorite Chick tract:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0032/0032_01.asp
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More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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  #1408  
Old 10-17-2014, 12:38 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I've posted this before, but in case anyone missed it , this is my favorite Chick tract:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0032/0032_01.asp
Meant for trick-or-treat bags, I suppose. Too bad it has doesn't have the real way to be saved!

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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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  #1409  
Old 10-18-2014, 06:20 AM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Meant for trick-or-treat bags, I suppose. Too bad it has doesn't have the real way to be saved!

Kind of cool of them to point out that it has to be the "Queen" James Version that they read.
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  #1410  
Old 10-18-2014, 08:39 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
Kind of cool of them to point out that it has to be the "Queen" James Version that they read.
Yeah, I didn't know till I posted that that they're KJ (er, QJ) only.
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