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  #1381  
Old 10-08-2014, 01:17 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

The following is copied from a current thread in Fellowship Hall. Name removed. My comment at end

<<Lake Of Fire Revelation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to bed last night and before I fell asleep, I had this terrible thought come to mind about death and eternity.

So it is bad enough that the wicked will be banished to a literal lake of fire for an eternity.

But imagine you are wicked and cannot swim.

Imagine swallowing in gulps of liquid flame.

Imagine your body convulsing as you begin to choke on the liquid flame because you cannot swim.

Imagine flailing your arms tring to stay afloat in liquid flame.

Imagine your eyes opening and shutting as you try to get the liquid flame to not burn your eyes.

Is there a top, a surface to the lake of fire, where, if you can keep yourself afloat, you can breathe in air instead of flame?

What about when you are too tired stay afloat-- do you sink into lake of flame only to have your body violently convulse within the lake of flame?


Then I had the thought, if Heaven is real, then hell must be too-- and so must the lake of fire!

Terrifying thoughts!>>
_______________________________________________


Notice the most common verb above? Hint: It's "Imagine." In the absence of substantive evidence or experience, believers are forced to just imagine. Interesting how much imagining is ultimately informed by other men's prior imaginings. (It's only human I guess.) The heathen John Lennon also had his version of "Imagine", a song I hated when I was a Christian. His version probably will never really "happen" either, but it has a slightly better chance than imaginations of The Lake O' Far and heaven. People fear death, so they invent pleasant alternatives, (as well as punishment coercions for others) which have evolved across the centuries.

__________________
_______________________________________

Deeply JN Apostolic: 1978-1999.
Happily agnostic/atheist 2011 to present.

Good news! The gospel boils down to, "Love me
or I will destroy you." --A god.

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  #1382  
Old 10-08-2014, 02:41 PM
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MawMaw MawMaw is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
The following is copied from a current thread in Fellowship Hall. Name removed. My comment at end

<<Lake Of Fire Revelation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to bed last night and before I fell asleep, I had this terrible thought come to mind about death and eternity.

So it is bad enough that the wicked will be banished to a literal lake of fire for an eternity.

But imagine you are wicked and cannot swim.

Imagine swallowing in gulps of liquid flame.

Imagine your body convulsing as you begin to choke on the liquid flame because you cannot swim.

Imagine flailing your arms tring to stay afloat in liquid flame.

Imagine your eyes opening and shutting as you try to get the liquid flame to not burn your eyes.

Is there a top, a surface to the lake of fire, where, if you can keep yourself afloat, you can breathe in air instead of flame?

What about when you are too tired stay afloat-- do you sink into lake of flame only to have your body violently convulse within the lake of flame?


Then I had the thought, if Heaven is real, then hell must be too-- and so must the lake of fire!

Terrifying thoughts!>>
_______________________________________________


Notice the most common verb above? Hint: It's "Imagine." In the absence of substantive evidence or experience, believers are forced to just imagine. Interesting how much imagining is ultimately informed by other men's prior imaginings. (It's only human I guess.) The heathen John Lennon also had his version of "Imagine", a song I hated when I was a Christian. His version probably will never really "happen" either, but it has a slightly better chance than imaginations of The Lake O' Far and heaven. People fear death, so they invent pleasant alternatives, (as well as punishment coercions for others) which have evolved across the centuries.

In your opinion Marc.... what do you think happens to a person after they die?
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  #1383  
Old 10-09-2014, 03:35 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by MawMaw View Post
In your opinion Marc.... what do you think happens to a person after they die?
I don't know, since so far no one has (verifiably) returned from the dead with any good evidence. The thing is, neither do religious people KNOW, yet they claim they know. And neither do I re label what I IMAGINE will happen to be the same as a "revelation". That's (sometimes) how we end up with ancient sacred writings that wind up being called "the truth." But, just like I hope there's a god, I also hope there is an afterlife, but the evidence suggests at best we only "live on" in the memories of those we touched while alive. (And that should be good enough, without having to invent extra worlds.)

Not worried about hell, either, as the whole idea is incompatible with a mature human being, let alone a mature omniscient god.

__________________
_______________________________________

Deeply JN Apostolic: 1978-1999.
Happily agnostic/atheist 2011 to present.

Good news! The gospel boils down to, "Love me
or I will destroy you." --A god.

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  #1384  
Old 10-11-2014, 10:30 AM
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MawMaw MawMaw is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by MawMaw View Post
In your opinion Marc.... what do you think happens to a person after they die?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
I don't know, since so far no one has (verifiably) returned from the dead with any good evidence. The thing is, neither do religious people KNOW, yet they claim they know. And neither do I re label what I IMAGINE will happen to be the same as a "revelation". That's (sometimes) how we end up with ancient sacred writings that wind up being called "the truth." But, just like I hope there's a god, I also hope there is an afterlife, but the evidence suggests at best we only "live on" in the memories of those we touched while alive. (And that should be good enough, without having to invent extra worlds.)

Not worried about hell, either, as the whole idea is incompatible with a mature human being, let alone a mature omniscient god.

Well, as long as you have that HOPE, that helps me
know that your soul still yearns to be saved as much
as mine does.
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  #1385  
Old 10-11-2014, 03:03 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by MawMaw View Post
Well, as long as you have that HOPE, that helps me
know that your soul still yearns to be saved as much
as mine does.
Okay, thanks. But my "hope" is approximately like I hope to be a millionaire, which I'm not about to do a single thing toward achieving. Besides, what's a soul? And saved from what? All the "answers" I've ever heard or read appear to be just more religious, faith-based inventions. "Soul" is probably just a poetic or romanticized version of the mind, perhaps the part of our mind that makes us distinguished, or individual from another person. (My ad hoc definition, at least as good as christian inventions.)

__________________
_______________________________________

Deeply JN Apostolic: 1978-1999.
Happily agnostic/atheist 2011 to present.

Good news! The gospel boils down to, "Love me
or I will destroy you." --A god.

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  #1386  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:49 PM
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MawMaw MawMaw is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
Okay, thanks. But my "hope" is approximately like I hope to be a millionaire, which I'm not about to do a single thing toward achieving. Besides, what's a soul? And saved from what? All the "answers" I've ever heard or read appear to be just more religious, faith-based inventions. "Soul" is probably just a poetic or romanticized version of the mind, perhaps the part of our mind that makes us distinguished, or individual from another person. (My ad hoc definition, at least as good as christian inventions.)

We all have our choices in this life.
Of that, there is certainty.
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  #1387  
Old 10-12-2014, 11:16 AM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Here's my take. Not that you asked.

Most likely, there is nothing after death. The mind is a function of the brain. Even while we live, consciousness varies. It appears to drop to effectively zero, when we sleep and aren't dreaming. Maybe it's not absolutely gone, but it's so hard to tell the difference between dreamless sleep and zero consciousness that it's practically the same. When we die, the brain stops working. No brain, no thoughts. No thoughts, no consciousness.

Before we were born (or before some ill-defined moment in the womb), we had no consciousness. No "soul" or "spirit", I'd say. We did not exist. IMO, the most likely result of death is a return to that state. We no longer have any consciousness, no thoughts, no memories, no existence.

Other ideas of an afterlife are just as valid speculations, of course. Or maybe some are not quite as valid.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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  #1388  
Old 10-12-2014, 02:25 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Mark Twain about death

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
--Mark Twain
__________________
_______________________________________

Deeply JN Apostolic: 1978-1999.
Happily agnostic/atheist 2011 to present.

Good news! The gospel boils down to, "Love me
or I will destroy you." --A god.

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  #1389  
Old 10-13-2014, 11:48 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Oh, that post.

Well, it seems that some people are afraid of simple, straight-forward questions.
No, that was not my point.

It's the mission to inflict doubt about the bible at every chance you get. Your personality was an extreme one where you felt that if you did not get healed it drove you crazy to the point of suicidal thoughts. That is an extreme personality. Your son was the same when he could not get victory over his gay lifestyle. Suicide. No room for trust that you perhaps did not exhaust all the routes to victory, and no faith to wait for God to bring the answer.

Since you feel the bible is wrong, you go waaaay out of your way to post and post and repost -- at any chance you get -- a mockery of someone's words who trusts in God. THAT IS an extreme personality that goes along with suicidal thoughts when you weren't healed. That is not normal, dude! Over and over again on a christian forum. Think about it. That's waay out there, T.

George Mueller said the key to his unbelievable faith in seeing prayers answers by the droves was knowing when something is God's will, God did not say when but He did say it would be answered. Hence, FAITH cannot stand without patience to wait, with patience being the bridge that supports faith. Or else there simply is not any faoith.


Quote:
For example, Steve Epley will not answer me when I ask where my grandmother, a trinitarian, is spending eternity. Says might change be merciful -- i.e., he might not send every lost soul to hell. I kid you not. (But he says he knows where he is spending eternity. Apparently, Steve knows when God might change his mind and when he won't.)

And you, for example, claim not to know if my son deserves to burn in hell. (Sorry, the lake of fire. Thanks, Prax. ) That surprised me, actually. You even retorted "where did that come from?" As if you didn't know.
No, my retort was not to imply I did not know. I said why on earth would you bring that into the picture, as though such a response is too way out there for the issue we spoke about. Like, whoa! Why would you even think of saying that? DESERVING HELL, for one thing is not the issue about hell. God is trying to stop people from going there, not deciding who deserves it or not. lol

You just have a totally different way of thinking and it's the pessimistic way. That's what I mean by your issue against faith. Faith is a poison to you. It's like the concept of faith is something you cannot grasp. If you tried all you know, it does not come to you that maybe there's a path you do not know about. But that does not occur to you. You just tried all that there is, period, so you should die as a result. Hence, suicidal thoughts.

Just by thinking I implied I did not know about your son's worthiness for hell or not shows you simply cannot consider any other option of thought than the one you presently know about. Omniscience, as it were. Some folks cannot stand the thought that they just might have missed something. So rather than think that way, think suicide.

That is really extreme, Timmy. I rarely ever heard of anyone thinking suicide if they coudl not get healed due to frustration with God! Wow.

So, again, where did that response come from?

Quote:
shocking to Doesn't the Bible tell you that the wages of sin is death? It's not talking about no-more-breathing type death, now, is it? Is it? Is it not talking about "spiritual death"? Punishment? Eternal punishment?

Well, if not, I guess you learn something new every day.
Again, where do you get the thoughts like this to say these things? It's waaaay out there, Timmy. Seriously. I guess hte glass is always half empty.
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  #1390  
Old 10-13-2014, 01:32 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
No, that was not my point.

It's the mission to inflict doubt about the bible at every chance you get. Your personality was an extreme one where you felt that if you did not get healed it drove you crazy to the point of suicidal thoughts. That is an extreme personality. Your son was the same when he could not get victory over his gay lifestyle. Suicide. No room for trust that you perhaps did not exhaust all the routes to victory, and no faith to wait for God to bring the answer.

Since you feel the bible is wrong, you go waaaay out of your way to post and post and repost -- at any chance you get -- a mockery of someone's words who trusts in God. THAT IS an extreme personality that goes along with suicidal thoughts when you weren't healed. That is not normal, dude! Over and over again on a christian forum. Think about it. That's waay out there, T.

George Mueller said the key to his unbelievable faith in seeing prayers answers by the droves was knowing when something is God's will, God did not say when but He did say it would be answered. Hence, FAITH cannot stand without patience to wait, with patience being the bridge that supports faith. Or else there simply is not any faoith.




No, my retort was not to imply I did not know.
"God is the one who determines who deserves what. Not us." That's what you said.

Quote:
I said why on earth would you bring that into the picture, as though such a response is too way out there for the issue we spoke about. Like, whoa! Why would you even think of saying that? DESERVING HELL, for one thing is not the issue about hell. God is trying to stop people from going there, not deciding who deserves it or not. lol

You just have a totally different way of thinking and it's the pessimistic way. That's what I mean by your issue against faith. Faith is a poison to you. It's like the concept of faith is something you cannot grasp. If you tried all you know, it does not come to you that maybe there's a path you do not know about. But that does not occur to you. You just tried all that there is, period, so you should die as a result. Hence, suicidal thoughts.

Just by thinking I implied I did not know about your son's worthiness for hell or not shows you simply cannot consider any other option of thought than the one you presently know about. Omniscience, as it were. Some folks cannot stand the thought that they just might have missed something. So rather than think that way, think suicide.

That is really extreme, Timmy. I rarely ever heard of anyone thinking suicide if they coudl not get healed due to frustration with God! Wow.

So, again, where did that response come from?



Again, where do you get the thoughts like this to say these things? It's waaaay out there, Timmy. Seriously. I guess hte glass is always half empty.
Really? You don't know where that question came from? And that's the issue you had with my asking?

OK, let's assume my question was completely random and not related at all to the issue of homosexuality. I have said I would avoid that topic, so let's speak in terms of sin in general. So please:

Is an unrepentant sinner deserving of eternal punishment in the lake of fire?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?

Last edited by Timmy; 10-13-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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