The OT saints apparent disadvantage

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Originalist

You are the refuted one.

Originalist,
I am trying to have an intelligent discussion, in case I missed some important observations.
I don’t think you have taken the time to read carefully my three long posts and looked up the referred verses, and then addressing my interpretation from my own observations in addition to yours. Since that is the case I don’t want to waste my time repeating myself. I think I am being fair and not rude.

[coksiw]

Just a thought.
John 7:38-39 (NKJV) He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

What is living waters? What was he referring to that it is in connection with Pentecost?

This was the verse the Jews used to use during that feast: Isaiah 12:3 (NKJV) 3 Therefore with joy you will draw water
From the wells of salvation.

Other mentions of waters are in Eze 47 and Zch 14:8.


It says to be living waters that flow outward. In Eze 47 is associated with healing and life going from Jerusalem towards the Great Sea (the nations). The living waters is also associated to the Spirit starting on the Day of Pentecost.

Do you want to see the rivers of living waters flowing out in action?

Luke 24:46-49 (NKJV) “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Mark 16:15-18 (NKJV) 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”


Acts 1:4-8 (NKJV) He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”


Acts 4:33 (NKJV) 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

Acts 8:4-8 (NKJV) 4 Therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching the word. 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. 6 And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. 8 And there was great joy in that city.

Acts 8:14-15 (NKJV) 14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

Now THAT is definitely different from the OT. It is like a river of living waters spreading from Jerusalem bringing healing, deliverance, and the Holy Spirit, and still expanding!

Yet, that doesn't contradict anything regarding the Role of the Spirit in OT saints, helping them to overcome sin, leading them, and infilling them.

(I may be a little bit all over the place on some interpretations. I am thinking through this as I post and put pieces together.)

[Esaias]

Coksiw, much of what you have written is in line with a lot of things I have discovered over the years in my studies. A key passage is this:

1 Chronicles 16:15-22 KJV
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; [16] Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; [17] And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, [18] Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance; [19] When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it. [20] And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people; [21] He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes, [22] Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

Verse 22 identifies Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as prophets. They had the Holy Spirit leading them and guiding them. Now look at this (a passage you referenced in your first post):

Numbers 11:16-17 KJV
And the Lord said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee. [17] And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Moses was a prophet and had the Spirit. God was going to spread that anointing to 70 elders to assist in Israel's leadership.

Numbers 11:24-25 KJV
And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the Lord, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle. [25] And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

When the Spirit came upon them, they "prophesied".

Numbers 11:26 KJV
But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

Eldad and Medad did not go to the meeting, but the Spirit came upon them anyway. They too "prophesied".

Numbers 11:27-29 KJV
And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. [28] And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. [29] And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Moses expresses a desire that ALL of God's people would be prophets and that they would have the Spirit.

This theme is all through the Bible: that God's people would ALL have the Spirit. Joel's prophecy is a promise from God to bring about what Moses said. Which means Pentecost is the answer as it were to Moses' expressed desire.

A few points:

1. The sign of a prophet was prophesying, ie speaking as the Spirit directs. The 70 elders and Saul, the "prophets" in Samuel's day, etc all prophesied when the Spirit came upon them and moved upon them. Joel said all who receive the Spirit's outpouring would "prophesy". On Pentecost, they all spoke with tongues. Peter identified the speaking with tongues as the "prophesying" mentioned in Joel. Not only does this indicate speaking with tongues is a universal normative "initial evidence" of receiving the Spirit, but also strongly suggests that speaking with tongues was a normative evidence of Spirit operation even in the Old Testament (called "prophesying" in the several passages that have been referenced by both of us).

2. Righteousness at it's root is conformity to moral law. Since God expects everyone to conform to moral law, it necessarily follows that everyone is capable of conforming to moral law. Lack of conformity to moral law is "sin". So it follows everyone who is a moral agent and accountable to God is ABLE to not sin and do what's right. The problem of course is not everyone is WILLING. The role of the Spirit is thus to woo and motivate people, to make them willing, to obey God. Moreover, yielding to sin leads to bondage or enslavement to sin. The Spirit provides power to escape that bondage (Romans 6-8). So people in the OT certainly could be righteous, and it certainly was a result of the Spirit working on their heart.

3. But that is a wider application of the Spirit than the existence of "prophets" in the OT. While anyone could yield to the motivating power of God's Spirit to do the right, not everyone was a prophet or had direct supernatural intervention by the Spirit.

4. Nobody under the Old Covenant had a PROMISE of being a prophet (that is, a promise of having the Spirit come upon them in demonstrable power and direct influence and guidance). That was reserved for the New Covenant. In that respect the New Covenant is incredibly superior. The New Covenant makes available to all of God's people what Moses wished for, which was previously only available to a select few.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Where do you put the Old Testament saints regarding resurrection? They do not inherit eternal life in Christ?
Luke 13:28-29 (NKJV) 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.

How can you harmonize with Biblical evidences what you said with the OT experience and end result? Please make sure you use plausible explanations from the Bible, and thoroughly, and not speculative explanations echoing some UPCI teachers position. I am opened to be proven wrong.

An interesting question. Essentially, how could an old testament saint even be a "saint", and expect resurrection, if only those filled with the Spirit can be saints and expect resurrection? It would mean nobody prior to Pentecost will be resurrected to life except maybe the prophets.

But Paul makes an interesting statement:

Galatians 4:4-6 KJV
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. [6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

God sent His Spirit into their hearts BECAUSE they were sons. The sonship is given as the ground, cause, or reason for them receiving the Spirit. This is 180 degrees opposite to most modern Pentecostal belief. So what is going on here?

Romans 8:14 KJV
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Those who are LED by the Spirit are judicially classified by God as sons. In other words, a person who is yielding to the influence of God's Spirit is classified as a child of God. God's Spirit led the Galatians to believe in Christ and receive the Spirit. Thus they received the Spirit because they were children of God.

Jesus put it this way:
John 14:16-17 KJV
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The world cannot receive the Spirit. Only those not of the world, but of the kingdom, can. The disciples were children of God and not of the world prior to Pentecost:

Luke 11:11-13 KJV
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? [13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

God was their Father, and would give them the Spirit.

John 15:18-19 KJV
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. [19] If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

They were not of the world.

Misunderstanding these things has caused many to suppose the Spirit is given to a person BEFORE they "receive the Spirit". Such persons say "You have to already have the Spirit in order to be baptised with the Spirit", but harmonizing the Scripture shows that the prerequisite to receiving the Spirit is to be LED by the Spirit to an obedient faith in Christ. Being led classifies a person as a son of God eligible to receive the Spirit. What is first judicially established is then ratified and manifested in personal experience.

Adoption leads to birth, in a sense.

Getting back to the question of the old testament saints: if they were led by the Spirit, they are legally classed as children of God. Thus, only those in the Covenant who also served God from the heart will obtain the resurrection unto life. Mere physical circumcision isn't enough, as John explained:

Matthew 3:7-9 KJV
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [8] Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: [9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

[1 God]

The OT provided executions etc, for those that disobeyed the Law. This is opposite of NT Holy Ghost doctrine. They were flawed from the start with a big hammer hanging over their heads. The Law of the Spirit is a new thing. However, all mankind from whatever covenant they come from are saved by faith.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Coksiw, much of what you have written is in line with a lot of things I have discovered over the years in my studies. A key passage is this:

1 Chronicles 16:15-22 KJV
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; [16] Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; [17] And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, [18] Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance; [19] When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it. [20] And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people; [21] He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes, [22] Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

Verse 22 identifies Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as prophets. They had the Holy Spirit leading them and guiding them. Now look at this (a passage you referenced in your first post):

Numbers 11:16-17 KJV
And the Lord said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee. [17] And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Moses was a prophet and had the Spirit. God was going to spread that anointing to 70 elders to assist in Israel's leadership.

Numbers 11:24-25 KJV
And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the Lord, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle. [25] And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

When the Spirit came upon them, they "prophesied".

Numbers 11:26 KJV
But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

Eldad and Medad did not go to the meeting, but the Spirit came upon them anyway. They too "prophesied".

Numbers 11:27-29 KJV
And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. [28] And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. [29] And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Moses expresses a desire that ALL of God's people would be prophets and that they would have the Spirit.

This theme is all through the Bible: that God's people would ALL have the Spirit. Joel's prophecy is a promise from God to bring about what Moses said. Which means Pentecost is the answer as it were to Moses' expressed desire.

A few points:

1. The sign of a prophet was prophesying, ie speaking as the Spirit directs. The 70 elders and Saul, the "prophets" in Samuel's day, etc all prophesied when the Spirit came upon them and moved upon them. Joel said all who receive the Spirit's outpouring would "prophesy". On Pentecost, they all spoke with tongues. Peter identified the speaking with tongues as the "prophesying" mentioned in Joel. Not only does this indicate speaking with tongues is a universal normative "initial evidence" of receiving the Spirit, but also strongly suggests that speaking with tongues was a normative evidence of Spirit operation even in the Old Testament (called "prophesying" in the several passages that have been referenced by both of us).

2. Righteousness at it's root is conformity to moral law. Since God expects everyone to conform to moral law, it necessarily follows that everyone is capable of conforming to moral law. Lack of conformity to moral law is "sin". So it follows everyone who is a moral agent and accountable to God is ABLE to not sin and do what's right. The problem of course is not everyone is WILLING. The role of the Spirit is thus to woo and motivate people, to make them willing, to obey God. Moreover, yielding to sin leads to bondage or enslavement to sin. The Spirit provides power to escape that bondage (Romans 6-8). So people in the OT certainly could be righteous, and it certainly was a result of the Spirit working on their heart.

3. But that is a wider application of the Spirit than the existence of "prophets" in the OT. While anyone could yield to the motivating power of God's Spirit to do the right, not everyone was a prophet or had direct supernatural intervention by the Spirit.

4. Nobody under the Old Covenant had a PROMISE of being a prophet (that is, a promise of having the Spirit come upon them in demonstrable power and direct influence and guidance). That was reserved for the New Covenant. In that respect the New Covenant is incredibly superior. The New Covenant makes available to all of God's people what Moses wished for, which was previously only available to a select few.

Regarding point 2:

Look at this passage about exactly that topic of being slaved to sin:

Jeremiah 13:23 (KJV) 23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Regarding the Spirit guidance:

Galatians 5:16 (KJV) 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Then, the result of it is:

Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

"Walking in" refers to living according to the instructions or guidance of, e.g.
Leviticus 26:3 (KJV) 3 If ye walk in my statutes
Deuteronomy 8:6 (KJV) 6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.
1 Kings 3:14 (KJV) 14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

As you see, "walking in" is associated with keeping his word (obeying them).

Abraham:
Genesis 26:5 (KJV) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Jesus to his disciples:
John 14:23-26 (KJV) 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That's what I think that the "walk in the Spirit" comes down to living according to the instructions and guidance of the Spirit, which comes down to keeping the Word in our heart and doing it, and the Spirit helps you comprehend it, and it also convicts you, and gives testimony to our spirit by revealing things, and uses others to teach you and rebuke you and correct you.

You are right. In theory, people are capable of doing good always, and they have knowledge of good and evil. In practice, they have already been slaved of sin long ago as they come into this world and learn to discern good and evil and choose evil. They yield to the temptation of the flesh and the devil.
Those that have turned to God, have the Spirit convicting them, rebuking them, correcting them, instructing them. Those that hear and do, are walking in the Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV) 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

(KJV) 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, (I love this one)

Point 4 is a great point.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Regarding point 2:

Look at this passage about exactly that topic of being slaved to sin:

Jeremiah 13:23 (KJV) 23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Regarding the Spirit guidance:

Galatians 5:16 (KJV) 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Then, the result of it is:

Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

"Walking in" refers to living according to the instructions or guidance of, e.g.
Leviticus 26:3 (KJV) 3 If ye walk in my statutes
Deuteronomy 8:6 (KJV) 6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.
1 Kings 3:14 (KJV) 14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

As you see, "walking in" is associated with keeping his word (obeying them).

Abraham:
Genesis 26:5 (KJV) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Jesus to his disciples:
John 14:23-26 (KJV) 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

That's what I think that the "walk in the Spirit" comes down to living according to the instructions and guidance of the Spirit, which comes down to keeping the Word in our hearts and doing them, and the Spirit helps you comprehend it, and it also convicts you, and gives testimony to our spirit by revealing things, and uses others to teach you and rebuke you and correct you.

You are right. In theory, people are capable of doing good always, and they have knowledge of good and evil. In practice, they have already been slaved of sin long ago as they come into this world and learn to discern good and evil and choose evil. They yield to the temptation of the flesh and the devil.
Those that have turned to God, have the Spirit convicting them, rebuking them, correcting them, instructing them. Those that hear and do, are walking in the Spirit.

Point 4 is a great point.

Excellent points. This is a good thread.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by 1 God

The OT provided executions etc, for those that disobeyed the Law. This is opposite of NT Holy Ghost doctrine. They were flawed from the start with a big hammer hanging over their heads. The Law of the Spirit is a new thing. However, all mankind from whatever covenant they come from are saved by faith.

The law was a tutor to Christ, and shows us the deserved punishment for sin. The Spirit was preparing people for the coming of the Christ.

The righteousness of the Law is still something we should pursue after repentance.

Paul speaking, the same one that said we are under the law of the Spirit as you said:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV) 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Jesus himself teaching those that heard his preaching of the Kingdom of God being at hand (pay attention to the last verse):
Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV) 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Excellent points. This is a good thread.

What do you think about John 7:38-39? Did you see my interpretation of the "rivers of living waters" in post #32?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

An interesting question. Essentially, how could an old testament saint even be a "saint", and expect resurrection, if only those filled with the Spirit can be saints and expect resurrection? It would mean nobody prior to Pentecost will be resurrected to life except maybe the prophets.

But Paul makes an interesting statement:

Galatians 4:4-6 KJV
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. [6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

God sent His Spirit into their hearts BECAUSE they were sons. The sonship is given as the ground, cause, or reason for them receiving the Spirit. This is 180 degrees opposite to most modern Pentecostal belief. So what is going on here?

Romans 8:14 KJV
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Those who are LED by the Spirit are judicially classified by God as sons. In other words, a person who is yielding to the influence of God's Spirit is classified as a child of God. God's Spirit led the Galatians to believe in Christ and receive the Spirit. Thus they received the Spirit because they were children of God.

Jesus put it this way:
John 14:16-17 KJV
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The world cannot receive the Spirit. Only those not of the world, but of the kingdom, can. The disciples were children of God and not of the world prior to Pentecost:

Luke 11:11-13 KJV
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? [13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

God was their Father, and would give them the Spirit.

John 15:18-19 KJV
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. [19] If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

They were not of the world.

Misunderstanding these things has caused many to suppose the Spirit is given to a person BEFORE they "receive the Spirit". Such persons say "You have to already have the Spirit in order to be baptised with the Spirit", but harmonizing the Scripture shows that the prerequisite to receiving the Spirit is to be LED by the Spirit to an obedient faith in Christ. Being led classifies a person as a son of God eligible to receive the Spirit. What is first judicially established is then ratified and manifested in personal experience.

Adoption leads to birth, in a sense.

Getting back to the question of the old testament saints: if they were led by the Spirit, they are legally classed as children of God. Thus, only those in the Covenant who also served God from the heart will obtain the resurrection unto life. Mere physical circumcision isn't enough, as John explained:

Matthew 3:7-9 KJV
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [8] Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: [9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

You got me thinking.

Related verses:

John 11:52 (KJV) 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.


What about this:

[Jhn 1:12-13 NKJV] 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

being born of God here is just then a metaphor of those that respond to the lead of the Spirit?

I'm thinking of this as well:

[Jhn 6:45 NKJV] 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.