Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?

[Esaias]

People will support what they believe should be supported. "Mandates" are for those who do not feel that way.

If an org cannot exist without forced taxation, what does that say about the value placed on that org by its members?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

….Jesus is the way, the TRUTH and the life. There are many scriptures that say things like He was full of grace and truth. So it seems awfully strange and strangely awful that the church that is so powerful that the very gates of hell cannot withstand its incredible power, cannot survive without the many and diverse lies required to propagate the typical modern doctrine of tithing on the unsuspecting sheep that the pastors are supposed to be protecting from . . .

False doctrine.

Because. . .
ALL LIARS

Rev.21

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

In your opinion does that go for preachers that preach end time prophecy? That state Jesus is coming soon, the skies are going to split, the church is going to raptured out of here…..

I mean because like you said, a lie is a lie.

It is a dilemma….

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

People will support what they believe should be supported. "Mandates" are for those who do not feel that way.

If an org cannot exist without forced taxation, what does that say about the value placed on that org by its members?

Try telling that to our government.

The organizations I’m familiar with are structured like the political government.

I have to find that quote from Billy Cole, stating what the UPCI is, now mind you he was part of the organization. Yet, he said something along the lines that the structure, or political side is not spiritual, and he’s right!

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

In your opinion does that go for preachers that preach end time prophecy? That state Jesus is coming soon, the skies are going to split, the church is going to raptured out of here…..

I mean because like you said, a lie is a lie.

It is a dilemma….

Except that there is plenty of verses, even as preached by Jesus, and the apostles, of a coming day of the Lord, and future judgment, and a future fully manifested reign of Christ, and everlasting life. People believing such things is expected, if you interpret with a simple reading.

But there is no evidence, not even close, to that of the modern tithing doctrine in the New Testament. You have to do gymnastics to come up with such thing if you read the New Testament simply without background traditions influences.

Putting the modern teaching of tithing at the same level of the teaching of the second advent of the Lord is just absurd.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Except that there is plenty of verses, even as preached by Jesus, and the apostles, of a coming day of the Lord, and future judgment, and a future fully manifested reign of Christ, and everlasting life. People believing such things is expected, if you interpret with a simple reading.

But there is no evidence, not even close, to that of the modern tithing doctrine in the New Testament. You have to do gymnastics to come up with such thing if you read the New Testament simply without background traditions influences.

Putting the modern teaching of tithing at the same level of the teaching of the second advent of the Lord is just absurd.

Time tells all….

This thread is about tithing and where it came from, is there a thread on where all this end time propaganda that’s being thrown around, where did it come from?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

In your opinion does that go for preachers that preach end time prophecy? That state Jesus is coming soon, the skies are going to split, the church is going to raptured out of here…..

I mean because like you said, a lie is a lie.

It is a dilemma….

That is a good question. I do want to begin by saying that I don’t want to be harsh. I didn’t die for anyone’s sins but on the other hand, to address what I believe to be an issue for the leadership should come from a heart full of love. I don’t believe it is appropriate to allow someone to continue barreling down the highway unaware of the bridge that is out, if you know their life (or eternal salvation) is in danger. That wouldn’t be love. Love is to sound the alarm and do what you can to save a life or a soul. Spite would be to believe that they are guilty of lying to the sheep and fleecing them excessively, therefore they will get what they deserve. Do you see the difference?

However, the question about a false prophet is not necessarily black and white. It is , as Coksiw has done a good job of explaining, a horse of a different color. We have scripture to know what to do about a false prophet. It’s Old Testament so it may seem harsh.

Deut.13

[1] If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
[2] And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
[3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
[4] Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
[5] And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

According to this scripture we are responsible for following false prophecies. We are required to exercise judgment and not simply believe what we are told in the name of the Lord. A lot of people don’t seem to believe this.

Deuteronomy 18

20] But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
[21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

It seems to me that some preachers are too willing to speak a prophetic word without regard for whether it is true or not. I have for many years been careful to mark a man’s words when it comes to prophecy. If it doesn’t come to pass as prophesied, I follow the instructions. I do not respect the source. (I do not fear him). If it does come to pass, I believe he is a true prophet. (I have seen it happen both ways).

I do believe that we are in danger of idolizing mammon in this modern day prosperity doctrine church. Jesus said that you can’t serve God and mammon, but there seem to be a lot of people who are bent on proving Him wrong.

The indulgences of the Catholic Church seem to have become the tithes of the Pentecostal Church.

Maybe I’m wrong.

[Tithesmeister]

Do y’all remember BC saying that it all depends on what the definition of “is” is?

Maybe we should define what lie is.

Are pastors lying when they say that we should tithe on our income? The doctrine is certainly false, but does it being false automatically make it a lie?
Does intent come into play?

Certainly one definition of a lie is that it is an assertion that is false. Another definition is having the intention to deceive. Sometimes the tithe doctrine is one or the other (I believe) and at other times it is both.

When a preacher skips a verse, or overlooks a passage that would otherwise refute the doctrine that he wishes to propagate, that’s downright lying, no matter how you slice it. On the other hand, I’m convinced that some preachers sincerely believe that they are preaching truth. They are sincerely wrong. It is not as easy for me to believe they are liars because in some cases, lying implies intent, maybe.

What do y’all think?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Try telling that to our government.

The organizations I’m familiar with are structured like the political government.

I have to find that quote from Billy Cole, stating what the UPCI is, now mind you he was part of the organization. Yet, he said something along the lines that the structure, or political side is not spiritual, and he’s right!

The government's taxation power comes from the laws that authorize it to do so. The church is a governmental entity of the kingdom of God and is subject to the kingdom's law which is the Bible. A 501c3 corporation is governed by the laws of the jurisdiction under which it operates. The church is governed by the laws of the jurisdiction under which it operates.

So corporations can tax their members all they want. The church is a different thing.

Matthew 17:25-26 KJV
He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? [26] Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Do y’all remember BC saying that it all depends on what the definition of “is” is?

Maybe we should define what lie is.

Are pastors lying when they say that we should tithe on our income? The doctrine is certainly false, but does it being false automatically make it a lie?
Does intent come into play?

Certainly one definition of a lie is that it is an assertion that is false. Another definition is having the intention to deceive. Sometimes the tithe doctrine is one or the other (I believe) and at other times it is both.

When a preacher skips a verse, or overlooks a passage that would otherwise refute the doctrine that he wishes to propagate, that’s downright lying, no matter how you slice it. On the other hand, I’m convinced that some preachers sincerely believe that they are preaching truth. They are sincerely wrong. It is not as easy for me to believe they are liars because in some cases, lying implies intent, maybe.

What do y’all think?

If a US judge "mistakenly" applies the law of Spain to a case in New York, should he even be a judge?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Do y’all remember BC saying that it all depends on what the definition of “is” is?

Maybe we should define what lie is.

Are pastors lying when they say that we should tithe on our income? The doctrine is certainly false, but does it being false automatically make it a lie?
Does intent come into play?

Certainly one definition of a lie is that it is an assertion that is false. Another definition is having the intention to deceive. Sometimes the tithe doctrine is one or the other (I believe) and at other times it is both.

When a preacher skips a verse, or overlooks a passage that would otherwise refute the doctrine that he wishes to propagate, that’s downright lying, no matter how you slice it. On the other hand, I’m convinced that some preachers sincerely believe that they are preaching truth. They are sincerely wrong. It is not as easy for me to believe they are liars because in some cases, lying implies intent, maybe.

What do y’all think?

But knowingly deceptive, or ignorantly deceptive?

What is the origin of tithing in the NT?

Maybe we should examine that first.

This is your favorite subject . So can you explain how this OT doctrine made its way into Christianity?