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Old 03-15-2011, 10:33 PM
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Is this true?

http://www.apostolicarchives.com/s2.html

Quote:
In April, 1913, at a "worldwide" Pentecostal camp meeting being conducted at Arroyo Seco, near Los Angeles, a new "revelation" (not an uncommon thing in those days) received considerable emphasis. The main speaker at the camp meeting was Mrs. Mary Woodworth-Etter, but the speaker who unwittingly triggered the eruption was R.E. McAlister. At a baptismal service held near the main camp meeting tent, Brother McAlister casually observed that "the apostles invariably baptized their converts once in the name of Jesus Christ," and that the words Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were never used in Christian baptism." When they heard this, "a shudder swept the preachers on the platform," one preacher even stepping over to whisper to Brother McAlister to refrain from emphasizing that doctrine or it would "associate the camp with a Dr. Sykes who so baptized."

Reaction to this announcement was varied. One earnest preacher in particular, though, was deeply moved by the significance of the "name of Jesus." John G. Scheppe spent much of the night in prayer. In the early light of morning he "was given a glimpse of the power of the name of Jesus." He jumped to his feet, ran through the camp grounds, startling early risers, and awakening those still asleep. Scheepe shouted his "new revelation" of the power in the name of Jesus. His enthusiasm caused many to spend the day searching their Bibles regarding "the name of Jesus."

The enthusiasm created at Arroyo Seco gained such momentum that is soon affected many Pentecostal churches up and down the West Coast. At Long beach a large company of people were rebaptized in the new formula being advocated., "in the name of Jesus only." This rebaptism with the new formula was felt to be the gateway to new blessing. Attention was focused on the use of "THE NAME" invoked by the apostles in the book of Acts in connection with the performance of miracles, exorcism of evil spirits, and, partucularly, water baptism. Yhis emphasis led rapidly to the virtual denial of the Trinity, a type of Modal Monarchianism being espoused. Following the identification of the Holy Spirit with Jesus, the next step was the declaration of some that unless one had received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, accompanied by speaking with tongues, he was not truly saved.

This species of "Pentecostal Unitarianism" gained great strength chiefly through its promulgation by Frank J. Ewart, prominent West Coast Pentecostal leader who was present at the Arroyo Seco camp meeting. Ewart, originally from Australia, lately from Canada, and most recently from Portland, Oregon, had developed a reputation as a fearless Baptist preacher. In 1908 he accepted the Pentecostal message in Portland. His outspoken preaching of Pentecost led to his expulsion from the Baptist communion. Ewart joined William H. Durham in Los Angeles, serving as his assistant in the important mission at Sevength and Los Angeles Streets. When Pastor Durham died, Ewart fell heir to the pastorate, and by the time of the "Jesus Only" issue he was recognized as one of the leading Pentecostals in the West.
I'm particularly interested in whether the bolded part is true, particularly the order it presents the events as ocuruing. If anyone has any insight please let me know. Also when did the doctrine that a person is not saved until he is baptized in Jesus name and receives the Holy Ghost first begin to be preached here in North America? Also, who was Dr. Sykes that baptized in Jesus name?
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:10 PM
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Re: Is this true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
http://www.apostolicarchives.com/s2.html



I'm particularly interested in whether the bolded part is true, particularly the order it presents the events as ocuruing. If anyone has any insight please let me know. Also when did the doctrine that a person is not saved until he is baptized in Jesus name and receives the Holy Ghost first begin to be preached here in North America? Also, who was Dr. Sykes that baptized in Jesus name?
There's a lot about the connection between baptism in Jesus' name and the doctrine of oneness that I don't know about. It seems that after the bombshell delivered by the preacher named McAlister they went ahead with the baptismal service at that camp meeting and used the standard formula used by everyone back then --Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. It seems to me that as further study was given to why Acts 2:38 and other NT verses were different than Matthew 28:19, the idea of oneness evolved from that.

In Andrew Urshan's autobiography in a 1946 magazine he says that he started baptizing in the name "Lord Jesus Christ" in Chicago in 1910 and had Acts 2:38 painted over the baptistery. He himself did not believe in rebaptism and was not rebaptized until 1915 when he was sort forced into it. He continued to fellowship both trinity and oneness brethren until he was later forced to take sides. He evidently did not consider water baptism to be part of a "plan of salvation" back then. I don't know if he ever changed his mind or not.

I don't know who "Bro. Sykes" was.

I don't know when the idea that water baptism and Spirit baptism made up the new birth began to be preached. I've heard that Bishop Haywood was one of the originators of that doctrine.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2011, 11:29 PM
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Re: Is this true?

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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
There's a lot about the connection between baptism in Jesus' name and the doctrine of oneness that I don't know about. It seems that after the bombshell delivered by the preacher named McAlister they went ahead with the baptismal service at that camp meeting and used the standard formula used by everyone back then --Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. It seems to me that as further study was given to why Acts 2:38 and other NT verses were different than Matthew 28:19, the idea of oneness evolved from that.

In Andrew Urshan's autobiography in a 1946 magazine he says that he started baptizing in the name "Lord Jesus Christ" in Chicago in 1910 and had Acts 2:38 painted over the baptistery. He himself did not believe in rebaptism and was not rebaptized until 1915 when he was sort forced into it. He continued to fellowship both trinity and oneness brethren until he was later forced to take sides. He evidently did not consider water baptism to be part of a "plan of salvation" back then. I don't know if he ever changed his mind or not.

I don't know who "Bro. Sykes" was.

I don't know when the idea that water baptism and Spirit baptism made up the new birth began to be preached. I've heard that Bishop Haywood was one of the originators of that doctrine.
I found this interesting. It's from what appears to be an assemblies of God website.

Quote:
Jesus Only (Oneness). When the Assemblies of God was just 1 year old, an enthusiasm, beginning in California, swept the Fellowship. Soon the new teaching—that to be truly biblical, one had to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus only—spread through the Fellowship. Many leaders in the Assemblies of God were swept along with this teaching. J. Roswell Flower, one of the young leaders, recognized from his study of church history that this was not a new revelation, but was the reincarnation of an old heresy.

The Jesus Only teaching was unmasked as Sabellianism, or Modal Monarchianism—a heresy about the Godhead that had been condemned by the Church in the fourth century. Pastors and leaders reviewed the admonition of Brother Flower in the light of Scripture and swiftly rejected the Jesus Only fascination.
So it appears that by at least 1915 oneness theology had developed from Jesus' name baptism (which appears to have began around 1913 or maybe even earlier from Urshan's words) and from there the two seem to always be intertwined.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:17 AM
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Re: Is this true?

Quote:
When the Assemblies of God was just 1 year old, an enthusiasm, beginning in California, swept the Fellowship. Soon the new teaching—that to be truly biblical, one had to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus only—spread through the Fellowship. Many leaders in the Assemblies of God were swept along with this teaching. J. Roswell Flower, one of the young leaders, recognized from his study of church history that this was not a new revelation, but was the reincarnation of an old heresy.
So, the dear brother, instead of going to scripture, went to church history to deny Jesus name baptism? In so doing, they admit to having to venture and depend on extra biblical sources to deny this precious doctrine. And since history is written by the victors, going to 'church history' instead of leaning and depending upon scripture alone will almost always lead a person to denial of Oneness and Jesus name baptism.

This is the problem with most trinity denominations today. Their doctrine is based on church history instead of scripture. They go back to what the 'church fathers' taught instead of opening the scriptures are reading what the Lord actually commanded. The AOG seems to be another proof of this, that in rejecting Jesus name baptism, they went to 'church history' instead of studying scripture.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:38 AM
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Re: Is this true?

Early in the pentecostal movement after 1906 there was a lot of churches organized and reorganized in this nation. A lot of the pastors from denominational churches which attended the Azusa Street revival and were filled with the Holy Ghost, or Baptised/ went back to their churches and others had the same experiences. At the same time the Assemblies were growing as well. During the course of all this many were breaking off and starting their own separate groups. As a result their was a lot of way out there stuff coming up.[ anything of God the Devil has to get into a make a counterfeit]
I have read some of the history of the subject matter posted above. I myself think it was fake or caused from over inflated ego in the emotional center of that young girls life..
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:10 AM
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Re: Is this true?

I found something that is interesting. There are some claims that in 1902 Howard Goss was baptized in Jesus name by Charles Parham. A source is cited: Parham, Charles Fox. “Baptism.” The Apostolic Faith. October 1912, pp. 4-5. Does anyone have this source or know what it says? Is it true that baptism in Jesus' name was occuring that early in the Pentecostal movement? Was Goss ever rebaptized in Jesus' name?
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:41 AM
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Re: Is this true?

I don't have the answer to Frogman's questoin about Goss but I have an anecdotal incident that would date Jesus name baptism to an early date.

Around 1975-76 I was conducting a service each Sunday at a local nursing home in a small Louisiana town (I was in High School). There was an elderly black lady who came to every service. In the mid 70's she had to be in her 80's. She would testify about being baptized in Jesus name as a young girl or young person.

At the time I didn't realize the significance of this or I would have asked for more details as to the date. However if she 80 in 1975 that would make her date of birth around 1895. If she was 10 when baptized that would be 1905. Even if she was 15 at the time that would be just 1910. Wish I knew!

In any case that is a very early case of Jesus name baptism.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:48 AM
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Re: Is this true?

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I don't have the answer to Frogman's questoin about Goss but I have an anecdotal incident that would date Jesus name baptism to an early date.

Around 1975-76 I was conducting a service each Sunday at a local nursing home in a small Louisiana town (I was in High School). There was an elderly black lady who came to every service. In the mid 70's she had to be in her 80's. She would testify about being baptized in Jesus name as a young girl or young person.

At the time I didn't realize the significance of this or I would have asked for more details as to the date. However if she 80 in 1975 that would make her date of birth around 1895. If she was 10 when baptized that would be 1905. Even if she was 15 at the time that would be just 1910. Wish I knew!

In any case that is a very early case of Jesus name baptism.
That's interesting. Maybe her family has some details?
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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Re: Is this true?

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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
That's interesting. Maybe her family has some details?
If she was in her 80's in 1976 I think trying to track down her name or her family would be just about impopssible. I don't even think that nursing home exists anymore. I never saw anybody visiting her either. In hindsight I sure wish I had asked her more questions. Oh the ignorance of youth!
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F


"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:08 AM
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Re: Is this true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
I found something that is interesting. There are some claims that in 1902 Howard Goss was baptized in Jesus name by Charles Parham. A source is cited: Parham, Charles Fox. “Baptism.” The Apostolic Faith. October 1912, pp. 4-5. Does anyone have this source or know what it says? Is it true that baptism in Jesus' name was occuring that early in the Pentecostal movement? Was Goss ever rebaptized in Jesus' name?
It is my understanding that Howard Goss was baptized under Parham but was rebaptized in Jesus' name later. I can't give any chapter and verse proof for that though. it may be in the Howard Goss autobiography (The Winds of God) or the newer book about Howard Goss recently released by the PPH.
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