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  #21  
Old 12-13-2009, 03:34 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
What does the Greek Word "with" mean then prax and are there any other new testament examples of the word?
Para is the greek word for with in several places to mean "I was with him yesterday"

However here the word is pros.
Pros has been translated "pertaining to" in the accusative

Rom 15:17 Therefore I have boasting in Christ Jesus as to the things pertaining to God.

It's also just translated "to" implying "pertaining to"
2Pe 1:3 As His divine power has given to us all things pertaining to life and godliness through the full knowledge of the One calling us through glory and virtue,

In the KJV that is "unto".

Heb 2:17 Therefore in all things it behoved him to be made like His brothers, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of His people.

Here some translations translated pros as "within"
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed within himself in this way: God, I thank You that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-collector.

Others as "with"

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.

But notice how "with" is used here. Not to indicate two beings in close proximity

"about"
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed about himself like this: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: extortionists, unrighteous people, adulterers — or even like this tax collector.

Here is the thing. There is just one God. John does not introduce a multipersonal God. He introduces just "God".

In John's theology here, only after the Logos is made flesh does John begin to use the terms Father and Son.
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  #22  
Old 12-14-2009, 02:28 PM
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jfrog jfrog is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Para is the greek word for with in several places to mean "I was with him yesterday"

However here the word is pros.
Pros has been translated "pertaining to" in the accusative

Rom 15:17 Therefore I have boasting in Christ Jesus as to the things pertaining to God.

It's also just translated "to" implying "pertaining to"
2Pe 1:3 As His divine power has given to us all things pertaining to life and godliness through the full knowledge of the One calling us through glory and virtue,

In the KJV that is "unto".

Heb 2:17 Therefore in all things it behoved him to be made like His brothers, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of His people.

Here some translations translated pros as "within"
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed within himself in this way: God, I thank You that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-collector.

Others as "with"

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.

But notice how "with" is used here. Not to indicate two beings in close proximity

"about"
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed about himself like this: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people: extortionists, unrighteous people, adulterers — or even like this tax collector.

Here is the thing. There is just one God. John does not introduce a multipersonal God. He introduces just "God".

In John's theology here, only after the Logos is made flesh does John begin to use the terms Father and Son.
Prax, the Word or "Logos" is something that is distinct from God whether it be God's "thoughts, reasons, or spoken words". God thinks and the Word is what was thought. God reasons and the Word is what was reasoned. God speaks and the Word is what was spoken. Clearly that which thinks is different than that which is thought and so on. In all of these cases there exists distinction and any distinction no matter how small implies that the Word is a term that IS NOT equivalent to the term God. In fact there is no definition you can give me of "Logos" that will not somehow be distinct from God. That is the basis of my argument. I felt the use of "with or pros" clearly showed this to be the case, but since there is contention over how "pros" can be used, I will leave it that you have not demonstrated that "pros" can only be used to relate a subject to itself. John 3:4 is enough to demonstrate to "pros" can be used to relate a subject with a different object than itself. So then we cannot be sure how the Word was "pros" God by just looking at the pronoun "pros". This leads us to look at the definitions of "the Word" and "God" in order to determine how the Word could be "pros" God. Since there is no definition of "the Word" that would make it be the equivalent of "God" then we must conclude that "the Word" and "God" are in some way distinct and therefore not equivalent.
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  #23  
Old 12-15-2009, 08:27 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

So...my thoughts are not me? My words are not mine? They are distinct and seperate form me? I am not the same as what I say? My actions are not who I am? They are distinct and seperate too?

God and His word are one and the same.
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  #24  
Old 12-15-2009, 08:53 AM
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jfrog jfrog is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehawk013 View Post
So...my thoughts are not me? My words are not mine? They are distinct and seperate form me? I am not the same as what I say? My actions are not who I am? They are distinct and seperate too?

God and His word are one and the same.
There is a special relationship between your words and you. You speak and the words are spoken. The words proceed from you. The same is similar for your thoughts. When you think, you do not think you, but instead you think thoughts. For two words to be equivalent they should be interchageable. So if "Logos" and "God" were interchangeable then you could substitute "God" in for "Logos". However this cannot be done with the current definition of "Logos". Your current definiton of "Logos" is that "Logos" is the thoughts of God. God is not the thoughts of God. These two words, God and Logos, are not equivalent. They cannot be interchanged.

By the way, your thoughts are not you, but they are yours (they belong to you). Your words are not you either, but they are yours. Since they belong to you they must be distinct from that which they belong.
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  #25  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:07 AM
Joey Boneski Joey Boneski is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

God is a spirit and cannot be imagined with our mortal minds...to imagine him would put him in a place and God cannot be contained....for if he were the container would be grander than he is....and nothing is grander than God....even the heaven that our mind imagines cannot contain God as a singular being....it's why we were given Jesus Christ, God manifest in flesh....but he never ceased being God..the flesh he robed himself in cried out but never overpowered the spirit of God within...and by sacraficing the flesh he was robed in an example to us as a perfect sacrafice, the barrier was lifted, the veil was torn, and we are able to come before the throne in the name of Jesus Christ...who man's minds have seen and able to imagine this very day...but still one in the same as God Almighty : )
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  #26  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:11 AM
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Boneski View Post
God is a spirit and cannot be imagined with our mortal minds...to imagine him would put him in a place and God cannot be contained....for if he were the container would be grander than he is....and nothing is grander than God....even the heaven that our mind imagines cannot contain God as a singular being....it's why we were given Jesus Christ, God manifest in flesh....but he never ceased being God..the flesh he robed himself in cried out but never overpowered the spirit of God within...and by sacraficing the flesh he was robed in an example to us as a perfect sacrafice, the barrier was lifted, the veil was torn, and we are able to come before the throne in the name of Jesus Christ...who man's minds have seen and able to imagine this very day...but still one in the same as God Almighty : )
To comprehend something is not to contain it. There are many infinite things which one can understand. One such thing are the numbers. They are infinite and yet we understand them very well. It is possible for God to be comprehended and not be contained.

EDIT: By the way Joey if not being able to be contained is an essential attribute of God then Jesus Christ surely was not God for no flesh can contain what heaven cannot.
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  #27  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:19 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Satan's greatest fear was a MAN overcoming him. This is why he sought to remove Adam and Eve from the Garden dominion.

Devils would never refer to Christ as a man, always Son of God, never Son of man. But Jesus insisted on emphasizing SON OF MAN. He put it in the devil's face at every turn.
Matthew 4:3-4 KJV And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. (4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When the devil, himself, tempted Jesus as SON OF GOD, Jesus responded and referred to Himself as MAN to stick it to the devil. "MAN shall not live by bread alone..."

The entire spirit of persecution that fought the early church was called ANTICHRIST. And it would not accept the fact that JESUS CAME IN FLESH AS MAN.
1 John 4:3 KJV And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
And AS A GLORIFIED MAN, Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand throne of power and rules today AS MAN and GOD at the same time, still. His present glorious state as a glorified man is the very image we shall take upon ourselves in the resurrection.

Whereas ADAM should have been ruling the world with the dominion God gave to him, that he lost, Christ is the LAST MAN ADAM who rules. But Christ is also God.

What a wonder! Our New Adam is God. Himself! But we cannot remove the aspect of a MAN from the picture. The enemy would love for us to do that.

Demons would NEVER call Him man.
Mark 5:7 KJV And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
We need to keep sticking it to the devil and letting Him know that THE MAN CHRIST JESUS IS HIGH PRIEST AND KING OF KINGS AND ON THE RIGHT HAND THRONE OF POWER. And furthermore, we RULE WITH HIM, seated with Him in heavenly places.
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Last edited by mfblume; 12-15-2009 at 09:22 AM.
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:21 AM
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jfrog jfrog is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Satan's greatest fear was a MAN overcoming him. This is why he sought to remove Adam and Eve from the Garden dominion.

Devils would never refer to Christ as a man, always Son of God, never Son of man. But Jesus insisted on emphasizing SON OF MAN. He put it in the devil's face at every turn.
Matthew 4:3-4 KJV And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. (4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When the devil, himself, tempted Jesus as SON OF GOD, Jesus responded and referred to Himself as MAN to stick it to the devil. "MAN shall not live by bread alone..."

The entire spirit of persecution that fought the early church was called ANTICHRIST. And it would not accept the fact that JESUS CAME IN FLESH AS MAN.
1 John 4:3 KJV And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
And AS A GLORIFIED MAN, Jesus Christ ascended to the right hand throne of power and rules today AS MAN and GOD at the same time, still. His present glorious state as a glorified man is the very image we shall take upon ourselves in the resurrection.

Whereas ADAM should have been ruling the world with the dominion God gave to him, that he lost, Christ is the LAST MAN ADAM who rules. But Christ is also God.

What a wonder! Our New Adam is God. Himself! But we cannot remove the aspect of a MAN from the picture. The enemy would love for us to do that.

Demoons would NEVER call Him man.
Mark 5:7 KJV And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Good thoughts blume, i enjoy discussing things with you, even when we do not agree.
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:25 AM
Joey Boneski Joey Boneski is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
To comprehend something is not to contain it. There are many infinite things which one can understand. One such thing are the numbers. They are infinite and yet we understand them very well. It is possible for God to be comprehended and not be contained.

EDIT: By the way Joey if not being able to be contained is an essential attribute of God then Jesus Christ surely was not God for no flesh can contain what heaven cannot.
OK...then whats the highest number? You seem to be reasoning with the carnal mind which is impossible...you receive the spirit of God in the Holy Ghost but cannot contain it...I just said infinity is not comprehendable by the carnal mind so why would I debate it...the only intelligent comprehension is that our brains cannot...can you comprehend infinity in history or does your mind need a beginning?
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  #30  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:25 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Personal, Fresh Revelation!

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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
Good thoughts blume, i enjoy discussing things with you, even when we do not agree.
Thanks, bro. We do not have to agree. Just so long as the truth is here so the blood is off my hands... LOLOLOLOL

J/K

Anyway, I am strong on the issue of Christ as a MAN still in existence as a MAN. That is the reason we read THE MAN CHRIST JESUS is the mediator. Not was, but IS. And man is from the Greek ANTHROPOS, which means a human being. Jesus right now as a man is what Adam would have been with fruit of Life in his being and immortal had he not fallen. And is what we shall be.
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