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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #11  
Old 07-12-2021, 09:38 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
So thrilled to have just shown another believer that Jesus Christ is ruling right now, by comparing Psalm 110:1 and the language used, with 1st Corinthians 15:25. If he's seated until all enemies are his footstool, and that seating is occurring now, Then he's ruling at the same time due to the terminology. People think that he's waiting for Dominion to be given to him when all enemies are put under his feet. But the Bible actually teaches that he's waiting for them to be destroyed when they're put under his feet. Being put under his feet means those enemies are destroyed. Not that they're put there in subjugation so he can rule over them. He's ruling now until all enemies are put under his feet.

As in His heel with crush his head?
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  #12  
Old 07-13-2021, 10:26 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

The future rule of Christ will not be chaotic as we see sinners and devils running amok today. The rule of Christ will be with a rod of iron, and sinner/demon free over the whole earth.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2021, 02:52 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by 1 God View Post
The future rule of Christ will not be chaotic as we see sinners and devils running amok today. The rule of Christ will be with a rod of iron, and sinner/demon free over the whole earth.
I think you are mising it. The scripture says that his kingdom will cover the whole earth and it does, and in his kingdom he shall rule with a rod of iron. But to say the whole earth will be demon free and sin free. Is not what the word means. Even the best kingdoms of the world, had their criminals. Christ kingdom is and always will be a spiritual kingdom within the world but not of the world, in his kingdom their is victory, and forgiveness of sin. But outside his kingdom is still sin and kayos.
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2021, 06:30 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by loran adkins View Post
I think you are mising it. The scripture says that his kingdom will cover the whole earth and it does, and in his kingdom he shall rule with a rod of iron. But to say the whole earth will be demon free and sin free. Is not what the word means. Even the best kingdoms of the world, had their criminals. Christ kingdom is and always will be a spiritual kingdom within the world but not of the world, in his kingdom their is victory, and forgiveness of sin. But outside his kingdom is still sin and kayos.
The kingdom of Jesus Christ will destroy all earthy kingdoms when He returns and the devil(and his fallen followers) will be banished to a bottomless pit during His earthly reign. There will be no sinners and devils influencing mankind to do evil. That is what ruling with a "rod of iron" rule looks like. Per Psalm 2, Jesus will inherit the heathen kings and they will pay homage openly to him...
2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2021, 08:43 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
So thrilled to have just shown another believer that Jesus Christ is ruling right now, by comparing Psalm 110:1 and the language used, with 1st Corinthians 15:25. If he's seated until all enemies are his footstool, and that seating is occurring now, Then he's ruling at the same time due to the terminology. People think that he's waiting for Dominion to be given to him when all enemies are put under his feet. But the Bible actually teaches that he's waiting for them to be destroyed when they're put under his feet. Being put under his feet means those enemies are destroyed. Not that they're put there in subjugation so he can rule over them. He's ruling now until all enemies are put under his feet.
The emboldened part above doesn't ring true to me.

I see Psalm 110:1 being fulfilled, not as a means of destruction, but of salvation.

Consider:

Jesus is quoted in more than one place teaching us to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27 & 35).

Is He not the standard? Are we expected to love our enemies, but Christ is exempt from His own teaching (See and compare, e.g. Romans 12:20)?

Secondly, Paul makes the following claims:

Romans 5:10,

Quote:
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Colossians 1:21,

Quote:
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Paul is pretty clear than humanity in general, at least at the first, are enemies of Christ and God, but individually, across the expanse of time, as the Gospel is heralded, and people receive and obey it, those who were once Christ's enemies become His friends, even His brothers, members of His family and the household of God.

This being the case, compare the footstool language of Psalm 110:1 with the following verses:

1 Chronicles 28:2,

Quote:
Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
Psalm 99:5,

Quote:
Exalt ye the Lord our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.
Psalm 132:7,

Quote:
We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool.
Lamentations 2:1,

Quote:
How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!
All four of these verses indicate that the footstool of the LORD is merely a reference for the temple. Lamentations 2:1, especially, is unmistakably so.

Is it not therefore better to understand the prophecy of Psalm 110:1 in this light, that the making of, or turning of, the Messiah's enemies into His footstool by YHVH, is the process of conversion through the Gospel whereby enemies of the Lord are brought into the faith and saved from the wrath to come?

Then, it isn't about the destruction of His enemies, and the loss of their souls in Hell, but rather, about the salvation of His enemies, by the atoning blood shed at the cross, and the gaining of their souls for life everlasting in the New Jerusalem.

That seems more in line with a message of hope and reconciliation. If Psalm 110:1 is about destruction, it looks more like a message of despair and retaliation, such as you appear to have posited it.

At least to me.
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2021, 10:20 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The emboldened part above doesn't ring true to me.

I see Psalm 110:1 being fulfilled, not as a means of destruction, but of salvation.

Consider:

Jesus is quoted in more than one place teaching us to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27 & 35).

Is He not the standard? Are we expected to love our enemies, but Christ is exempt from His own teaching (See and compare, e.g. Romans 12:20)?

Secondly, Paul makes the following claims:

Romans 5:10,



Colossians 1:21,



Paul is pretty clear than humanity in general, at least at the first, are enemies of Christ and God, but individually, across the expanse of time, as the Gospel is heralded, and people receive and obey it, those who were once Christ's enemies become His friends, even His brothers, members of His family and the household of God.

This being the case, compare the footstool language of Psalm 110:1 with the following verses:

1 Chronicles 28:2,



Psalm 99:5,



Psalm 132:7,



Lamentations 2:1,



All four of these verses indicate that the footstool of the LORD is merely a reference for the temple. Lamentations 2:1, especially, is unmistakably so.

Is it not therefore better to understand the prophecy of Psalm 110:1 in this light, that the making of, or turning of, the Messiah's enemies into His footstool by YHVH, is the process of conversion through the Gospel whereby enemies of the Lord are brought into the faith and saved from the wrath to come?

Then, it isn't about the destruction of His enemies, and the loss of their souls in Hell, but rather, about the salvation of His enemies, by the atoning blood shed at the cross, and the gaining of their souls for life everlasting in the New Jerusalem.

That seems more in line with a message of hope and reconciliation. If Psalm 110:1 is about destruction, it looks more like a message of despair and retaliation, such as you appear to have posited it.

At least to me.
If there is a "wrath to come" then it follows that some of His enemies will be destroyed, right?

Also, the context of 1 Cor 15 speaks of enemies being destroyed:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26 KJV
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

I also notice that technically the term footstool does not appear in 1 Cor 15.

It seems a footstool is a place to rest the feet. Thus for Christ's enemies to be made His footstool means they are to be placed under His feet, which in turn means t
He is victorious over them. Either through reconciling them to become His servants, or destroying them if they refuse.

There is also this:

Joshua 10:24-26 KJV
And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them. [25] And Joshua said unto them, Fear not, nor be dismayed, be strong and of good courage: for thus shall the Lord do to all your enemies against whom ye fight. [26] And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.

1 Kings 5:2-3 KJV
And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying, [3] Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the Lord his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the Lord put them under the soles of his feet.

The idea of victory over enemies seems to be what is expressed in 1 Cor 15.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2021, 08:13 PM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If there is a "wrath to come" then it follows that some of His enemies will be destroyed, right?

Also, the context of 1 Cor 15 speaks of enemies being destroyed:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26 KJV
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

I also notice that technically the term footstool does not appear in 1 Cor 15.

It seems a footstool is a place to rest the feet. Thus for Christ's enemies to be made His footstool means they are to be placed under His feet, which in turn means t
He is victorious over them. Either through reconciling them to become His servants, or destroying them if they refuse.

There is also this:

Joshua 10:24-26 KJV
And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them. [25] And Joshua said unto them, Fear not, nor be dismayed, be strong and of good courage: for thus shall the Lord do to all your enemies against whom ye fight. [26] And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.

1 Kings 5:2-3 KJV
And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying, [3] Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the Lord his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the Lord put them under the soles of his feet.

The idea of victory over enemies seems to be what is expressed in 1 Cor 15.
I do agree, that due to whatever circumstances and causes, those who refuse submission to Jesus as Lord in this life, have no hope of anything but everlasting destruction in the lake which burns with fire.

However, that comes after death. The way, at least to me, that Mike seemed to posit it, is that, because the last enemy to be destroyed is death, that Christ is currently subjugating and destroying other enemies first, prior to His final victory over death, as such, among the human population.

He can of course correct if I misread him, but if I did not misread him, then I think, as already stated, he is mistaken. All that needed to be done for all humans everywhere for all time to be saved, has been done. The only reason anyone misses out on eternal life is either volitional rebellion against God and His Word, or unlawful ignorance thereof.

Otherwise, whomsoever will. So, the recourse to destruction is only after any chance in this life to be saved is forfeited.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2021, 08:52 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

I went back and reread his statement. Maybe we both misunderstood him?

I'll wait for a clarification.
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  #19  
Old 08-11-2021, 05:55 AM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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I went back and reread his statement. Maybe we both misunderstood him?

I'll wait for a clarification.
I guess brother Blume got put in one of them Canuck Covid Camps? I hope not. We got clarifications on the line here.
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2021, 06:14 PM
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Re: Thy Kingdom Came

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
120 trumpeters sounded in unity with singers, and the glory filled Solomon's temple. Solomon quoted Psalm 132 to see God verify his enthronement. Centuries later, 120 in unity are filled as living temples on Pentecost, and Jesus' enthronement is attributed to be the cause as Peter quotes Psalm 132 as proof. Christ's enthronement is verified!
Mblume, I like the thread and I am not trying to contradict, i am just trying to find what Scripture that you used to get the 120 trumpeteers.

Thanks
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