The Son Is Gods Self 1 Hr. Video - Page 5

1 God · #41 04-26-2021, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Just an after thought. I wanted to come back and add that the “we” and “our” is the same, IMO, and because we already know who He is, as thinking and/or saying - when you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. How else would the Apostles view that, having no problem accepting Jesus as God manifest in the flesh. It isn’t as much the wording, but what they knew and how they accepted the wording.

Are you saying the audience of John 14 upon hearing "we" and "our" accepted it as "me" and "myself" or did that understanding of the passage come many centuries later?

1 God · #42 04-26-2021, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

He is acknowledging both body and Spirit. Flesh speaking, the Spirit doing the work. You see how I am forced to say “the” Spirit, when I know they are one and the same? Linguistics in play.

Was Jesus speaking of himself when describing God here?...24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth....And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Pressing-On · #43 04-26-2021, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The fact that in Greek, there is a second use of kai (rendered as "and also") and a second use of hēmōn (rendered as "our"; more literally translated: of us) shows that Paul did not intend for his audience to think God the Father and the Lord Jesus were the same being.

The singular verb form is then an indication of Paul's understanding of the Father and the Son operating in unity.

In unity and not the same. Hmmmm....

Pressing-On · #44 04-26-2021, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 God

Was Jesus speaking of himself when describing God here?...24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth....And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

I read it as Jesus saying, If God is the only one that is good and you are calling me good - Who do you say that I am?

Pressing-On · #45 04-26-2021, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 God

Are you saying the audience of John 14 upon hearing "we" and "our" accepted it as "me" and "myself" or did that understanding of the passage come many centuries later?

If Jesus identified Himself as - "My Father and I are One" and "when you have seen Me, you have seen the Father", why are we not having the mind of the Apostles?

What about Thomas, "John20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.(29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

We use terminology the same as the Apostles - Praise God! Thank you, Jesus! Holy Spirit, move!" We know this is God all along.

The terminology is unity, because it is one. Paul "never" intended for his audience to think God the Father and the Lord Jesus were "not" the same being. He wanted them to see that God was our all in all in every action He took.

Otherwise, we are pretending to be Oneness, but acting like we are trying to prove a Trinitarian stance all the while, IMO. It looks like confusion to me. Let's be Thomas, My Lord and my God!

1 God · #46 04-26-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

If Jesus identified Himself as - "My Father and I are One" and "when you have seen Me, you have seen the Father", why are we not having the mind of the Apostles?

What about Thomas, "John20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.(29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

We use terminology the same as the Apostles - Praise God! Thank you, Jesus! Holy Spirit, move!" We know this is God all along.

The terminology is unity, because it is one. Paul "never" intended for his audience to think God the Father and the Lord Jesus were "not" the same being. He wanted them to see that God was our all in all in every action He took.

Otherwise, we are pretending to be Oneness, but acting like we are trying to prove a Trinitarian stance all the while, IMO. It looks like confusion to me. Let's be Thomas, My Lord and my God!

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;...2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ...

It looks like Paul taught they were not the same exact person to me.

1 God · #47 04-26-2021, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I read it as Jesus saying, If God is the only one that is good and you are calling me good - Who do you say that I am?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
I don't see that at all.

Pressing-On · #48 04-26-2021, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 God

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;...2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ...

It looks like Paul taught they were not the same exact person to me.

The only way we could have a relationship with God, understand Him, communicate with Him is through the manifestation of flesh. If we are to be one with God, we have to be reconciled to Him. We can only do that through the body of Jesus Christ.

II John 1:9 “He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

Pressing-On · #49 04-26-2021, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 God

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
I don't see that at all.

Look at it again. It would be very like Jesus to say something not quite obvious to them at the moment or to say something to cause them to think. I saw that as a new convert.

coksiw · #50 04-26-2021, 07:04 PM

That “we” in John 14:23 is a challenge.
He did say in John 16:25 that He was speaking things in figurative language.
What is is factual is that the Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost to indwell the disciples. Paul used language like “Christ in you”(Rom 8:10) as well.

I think “we” there means the Holy Spirit and Christ as in “Christ in you”. It is figurative to emphasize the new dimension in which the Spirit will come to them: in the name of Jesus, under a new covenant in Christ.