The Reformation of the Pentecostal Movement

[agoodlife2live]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

As long as it is a one man rule something is wrong....When we lose the body concept we have missed the point of Christ's plan....too many cliques and no real body....
My husband and I were talking about a case last night where people are just cut away from the body because someone doesn't like them...when we do see a "body" sprewing with hate it is NOT the body of Christ...

Sis. Alvear,
Amen. Although this is not a doctrinal issue, as you have said, it is an issue that stems from lack of understanding who God is and the mission He commanded the church to fulfill. “One-man” churches never grow…, and offences will continue to develop… This is where love and relationship must begin to be taught, in balance with separation and holiness.

Great response Thanks!

[agoodlife2live]

Originally Posted by justlookin

The problem is that folks look to denominations as being the church of God. Denominations are, by their very nature, destined to move beyond their structure and beliefs because religious politics become prevalent in the organization and society changes over time.

Look at the oldest Christian denomination, the Roman Catholic church. They may hold a few of their original beliefs, but there has been much change over the centuries, especially since Vatican 2. Same thing happening with the Pentecostals. They aren't the Pentecostals of 100 years ago, denominational politics and society has changed them. The fact is, and this is hard for those who are stuck in denomination to accept, the church of God isn't contained in a denomination. The Pentecostals don't represent the entirety of the body of Christ and neither do the Baptists, or Methodists, ect.

So, there is change in the Pentecostal/Apostolic denomination. The body of Christ is always, always, always larger and more varied than a denomination, including the Pentecostal/Apostolic denomination.

Another good answer here and I appreciate it. There is certainly an “Anti-church, Anti-denomination, Anti- Religion” belief system that is affecting many churches (generally smaller ones) across America. This is not new, but started way back in time, by those who came over to the new land, with the intention of breaking free from the religious organization (Catholicism), with the Quakers leading it. I agree the body of Christ is not limited to one organization or Apostolic group of people, but it is limited to all who are “baptized into Christ”; I will forgo the sermon because we all know the biblical formula of New Birth.

As you have stated, the very idea of reformation is alive today, because of the concept of denominations. Men form a group, and it grows to the position of needing to be “organized” in order to maintain unity of thought, on “important” issues, which is what I am referring to as “doctrines”. If there is no organization, it leaves the salvation plan to be relevant to the men preaching, and in a perfect Holy Ghost filled world, this would work, but until then organization is essential. No one would be able to fellowship “like-minded” people if there was no way to find out who is like-minded, so this is the value of having organizations. Hence, if you follow Calvin’s ideas, you will connect to and support men who also follow his teachings. HOWEVER, if you are an Apostolic/Pentecostal your beliefs that surround the salvation plan will be much different and you will seek men “proven in the faith” to join in evangelism to reach the lost.

No Christian would run over to the Muslims house and hold a service in adoration to Jesus Christ, and with NO organization or denomination there would be no identification. How could the pastor call an evangelist to come preach a revival if there was no sort of organization? It would be so hard because it would be unpredictable to know what the sheep would be fed.

Although, I agree that organizations/denomination do bring in politics and division, I don't think that the evil is found in the concept of having an organization. The trouble is found in the pride of man, and deceptions of the enemy. The past reveals that most men who want to abolish all denominations, religion, or organization - generally fall into two groups:
1. Those with a personal interpretation of the scriptures
2. Those who embrace the idea that there is not a “set” salvation plan, and the Jesus Christ is not THE ONLY WAY.

Thank you

[agoodlife2live]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well judging by the Apostolics I encounter here and there it looks as if the Evangelical "finished work" doctrine has made strong inroads among them.

Indeed, I agree that the lack of understanding of Eschatology (or any doctrine) in the church often leaves the door wide open to those who are "evangelizing" alternative viewpoints. In addition, to the evangelism of "Evangelical finished work doctrine” by its believers, the world is also pushing the doctrine like never before. Everywhere I turn someone is "claiming", "speaking", and "taking authority" over every situation, whether they know God or not; while it is obvious that the idea of the Devil being “real” or “active”, has become nothing but a fairytale. This activity amongst non-religious organizations (i.e. psychologists, self-help books, leadership conferences etc.), prepares the ground of the hearts of those who lack in their own beliefs to easily be won over to these common concepts.

[agoodlife2live]

Originally Posted by Carl

Frank Bartleman in writing about the Azusa revival mentioned that every revival, awakening or renewal in history has fallen short in that they all have created another division. He felt God was trying to unite all of Christianity in that move of the spirit and that it should have continued deeper in the spirit and the doctrinal issues could have been ironed out later. Instead they organized hard and fast. Although he accepted the Jesus name message he never joined a denomination.

Thanks for the reference to this book, Ill check it out!