Why is the church so polictical?

[Ronnie G]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

You're absolutely right. If God chooses people to place in leadership, then he places everyone in those positions. Trump, Biden, no matter. If God did it, then God did it.

I think in the final analysis, it comes down to this, but what we do prior dictates many an outcome.

I remember watching the Eagles documentary, and something Joe Walsh said:

“There’s a philosopher who says, ‘As you live your life, it appears to be anarchy and chaos, and random events, non-related events, smashing into each other and causing this situation, and then … then this happens, and it’s overwhelming, and it just looks like ... what in the world is going on? And later, when you look back at it, it looks like a finely crafted novel. But at the time, it don’t.’ And a lot of The Eagles story is like that.”

He definitely has no idea how deep that statement is, but it is nonetheless.

However, if you were to ask him if any decision made on that road felt out of his control, he'd probably say no. Had Don Felder had a falling out with the band earlier, than what is perhaps the most recognizable chord progression in all of music might have never happened.

Anyway . . . lol. I have to go with what I know.

[Bro Flame]

Just because God has the final say doesn't mean we should vote against our values or vacate our civic duty.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

You're absolutely right. If God chooses people to place in leadership, then he places everyone in those positions. Trump, Biden, no matter. If God did it, then God did it.

So every dog catcher is God-ordained? Funny how we reject Calvinism when it comes to divine election, but we embrace it when it comes to political election.

[Scott Pitta]

Great observation, Originalist. I concur.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So every dog catcher is God-ordained? Funny how we reject Calvinism when it comes to divine election, but we embrace it when it comes to political election.

Great point!

[Ronnie G]

1 Samuel 8 has a nice look at repeated, congenital, and fatal political ignorance:
_______
And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.

2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba.

3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,

5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.

6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.

7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

10 And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king.

11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.

13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the Lord.

22 And the Lord said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

___

I wouldn't be surprised if there were Hebrew equivalents for "Green New Deal," and "Medicare for all."

It should be noted that a ACTUAL prophet didn't come along and start singing songs of the Ghost in the Machine. He was warning them. And he was warning them that it was within their power to alter their own trajectory with the current political mechanisms that were in place.

The problem with what happened this time?

Ephesians 6: " . . . and after having done all to stand. stand . . ."

Q-anon, the "prophets" and millions of decent people" "Just stand."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So every dog catcher is God-ordained? Funny how we reject Calvinism when it comes to divine election, but we embrace it when it comes to political election.

It has nothing to do with Calvinism or "divine election" as Calvinists understand that term.

The apostle said "the powers that be are ordained of God." Romans 13:1. Funny how we reject the plain words of an apostle but call ourselves "apostolic". Funny how we reject atheism when it comes to the funeral business but we embrace it when it comes to politics, eh?

All authority, whether family, economic, social, political, religious, whatever, is ordained by God. Good king Josiah was put into place by God just as much as the bad Pharaoh of the Exodus. The king's butler was put in place by God, demoted and thrown in jail by God, and restored by God - all in keeping with Divine Providence.

The fact that God accomplishes things by means of human beings and works with human beings does not somehow prove that God is taking a nap somewhere OR that God is not intimately concerned with all those things we'd like Him to stay out of, like politics. The idea that God cares about the afterlife but not about who is ruler is EXACTLY the reason we are in the mess we are in.

[Scott Pitta]

If the "powers that be are ordained of God" then why vote at all ?? Become a political pacifist and do not engage the political processes and elections at all. If God picks the leaders, why get in his way at all ??

This also applies to pastors seeking employment. Why vote on a new pastor if God decides who gets the job ??

I do not subscribe to political fatalism, but others can, if they wish.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

If the "powers that be are ordained of God" then why vote at all ?? Become a political pacifist and do not engage the political processes and elections at all. If God picks the leaders, why get in his way at all ??

This also applies to pastors seeking employment. Why vote on a new pastor if God decides who gets the job ??

I do not subscribe to political fatalism, but others can, if they wish.

We actually agree on this.

[coksiw]

You vote not to tamper God's will, but because it is your duty as a citizen of this countries. There are some countries that if you don't vote you are fined.