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  #81  
Old 06-24-2021, 05:32 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
So you concede there are preachers who teach tithes that aren't lying frauds? Because you could have made that clearer in your original post. You made a very sweeping statement, that was painting everyone in multiple organizations with an extremely broad brush, all without any evidence to support your assertion.
Basically you failed to distinguish the difference in the definition of many as opposed to every. Remember that?

My friend, words have definitions. Just because you don’t seem to have a third grade grasp of the English language, and you failed to get what I clearly said, doesn’t make it my problem.

The tithe problem is systemic. It is in the articles of faith in the AOG, UPCI, WPF, and AMF as well as other organizations. It is noteworthy that as these splits have occurred, supposedly over some new and better understanding of scripture, that each succeeding organization has pretty much copied and pasted the tithe doctrine from the former. And it seems it is pretty vague because they know they
don’t have scripture to support what they want everyone to believe.

There is no end to the scripture twisting that goes on. But some teach the truth of tithing. I am one of those that do. I have seen and heard saints extorted of tithing at the threat of their salvation. Some I personally know who certainly couldn’t afford to tithe and under a scriptural tithing doctrine that would have been sharing in the tithe.

The scriptural tithe wasn’t an income tithe. It was never rendered in money. Not once in the whole Bible. So yeah, it’s a scam. And pastors are generally the beneficiary of the “misunderstanding”. Did you know that there is never a single instance in the Bible where being a pastor qualified someone to receive a tithe? Widows, orphans, strangers and Levite’s as well as the tithers themselves shared the tithes. Yet this is never brought up by some tithe teachers. Their ability to ignore such a tremendous and clear cut body of scriptural evidence belies the notion of it being an oversight. It is intentional. And I have debated too many of them and seen them cut and run when the scripture systematically undermines their doctrine, to believe that they are interested in the truth when it costs them money. Maybe that’s why the tithe was originally not money.

If you think that pastors that teach tithing as ten percent of income are justified it speaks to the power of indoctrination. You certainly won’t find it in the Bible. I’ll be glad to debate you on it. Maybe you’ll learn something. Maybe not. You seem to believe what you believe, regardless of what the scripture has to say on the matter. Almost everything that is taught by these organizations concerning the tithe is false. It is not possible that it’s an oversight.

Tithing is the biggest scam in the history of the world. That’s my opinion and I can support it with scripture.

Has it ever occurred to you what a simple matter it would be for David Bernard to debate me and settle once and for all whether the UPCI doctrine on tithe is scriptural? Yet it never happens. Why? Because he KNOWS he can’t support the doctrine with scripture. And the organization is funded in large part by a false doctrine. In its very articles of faith. How ironic.

Last edited by Tithesmeister; 06-24-2021 at 05:40 PM.
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  #82  
Old 06-24-2021, 06:12 PM
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diakonos diakonos is offline
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

Have you reached out to DKB for a debate?
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  #83  
Old 06-24-2021, 06:16 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

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Have you reached out to DKB for a debate?
No I haven’t.
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  #84  
Old 06-24-2021, 06:19 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

Televangelist Jim Bakker to pay $156,000 in restitution for fake COVID-19 cure

https://www.foxnews.com/us/televange...ake-covid-cure
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  #85  
Old 06-24-2021, 06:58 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

It’s been a while since I posted this two hour long scripture twisting extortion of tithes. This guy says it’s impossible to be saved unless you tithe. So much for salvation being free, or the gospel being preached to the poor. Give it a listen. Give me your thoughts. He was a district superintendent of the state of Kansas for the UPCI. IIRC.


http://www.apostolicvault.com/admin/...ly_tithe_1.mp3

Last edited by Tithesmeister; 06-24-2021 at 07:02 PM.
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  #86  
Old 06-24-2021, 08:29 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
It’s been a while since I posted this two hour long scripture twisting extortion of tithes. This guy says it’s impossible to be saved unless you tithe. So much for salvation being free, or the gospel being preached to the poor. Give it a listen. Give me your thoughts. He was a district superintendent of the state of Kansas for the UPCI. IIRC.


http://www.apostolicvault.com/admin/...ly_tithe_1.mp3
Thankfully, I can never again hold office with UPCI over this tithe issue. They won't license you if you do not believe in tithing.
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  #87  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:25 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is online now
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

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Thankfully, I can never again hold office with UPCI over this tithe issue. They won't license you if you do not believe in tithing.
Do they put this in writing? Something tells me that they don’t.
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  #88  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:35 PM
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Televangelist Jim Bakker to pay $156,000 in restitution for fake COVID-19 cure

https://www.foxnews.com/us/televange...ake-covid-cure
Buckets O'Cheezy Rice?
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  #89  
Old 06-25-2021, 12:03 AM
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
I never really got that doctrine. Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a church where men were all cleanshaven, so I prefer to be so (even though I'm lazy and only shave once every 2-3 weeks), but the Bible doesn't give any indication that we shouldn't grow one, and we know for a fact that Jesus had a beard.

Coksiw beat me to it, but can you point even to an underlying principle that bans or forbids it? Consider the old standard of "no TV". While the Scripture doesn't explicitly come out and say "Thou shalt not watch TV", the concept was based on the Biblical principle of not putting unclean things before your eyes. Point me to the principle that forbids having a beard.
Command, approved example, necessary inference.

Command:

Leviticus 19:27 KJV
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

(Brenton transl. of Greek LXX: Ye shall not make a round cutting of the hair of your head, nor disfigure your beard.)

Approved examples:

Ex 1: When half the beard was shaved off as an insult, the response of David (who knew, honoured, and sought to follow all of God's instructions) was to order the half-shaved men to wait until the shaved half grew back, and NOT rather to shave the whole face so as to secure uniformity. Obviously, what was important was the beard rather than just looking presentable. It was better to grow the beard back than to be cleanshaven -

2 Samuel 10:4-5 KJV
Wherefore Hanun took David's servants, and shaved off the one half of their beards, and cut off their garments in the middle, even to their buttocks, and sent them away. [5] When they told it unto David, he sent to meet them, because the men were greatly ashamed: and the king said, Tarry at Jericho until your beards be grown, and then return.

Ex 2: Messiah was to have a beard, and the enemies of Messiah sought to remove His beard -

Isaiah 50:6 KJV
I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Necessary inference:

Since only men normally grow beards, and since the appearance of the beard marks the boy's entry into manhood, and since God commands numerous distinctions of gender to be observed and maintained both in clothing, temperament, mannerism, and even hair length, it follows that to shave the beard for any reason other than an exceptional reason violates God's prescribed order of male-female differentiation. In other words, it is a type of gender-bending trannyism akin to cross dressing or men having long flowing womanly hair or men being effeminate or sodomites.

* Note: the Divine command for men not to mar their beards (ie to maintain a full beard) DOES have certain Divinely prescribed exceptions, as in the completion of a Nazarite vow, in regards to the treatment of leprosies, etc. But as is usually the case, "the exception proves the rule."

* Note: The command does not specify the LENGTH of the beard, only that the "corners" not be disfigured. That is, the BORDER or "hairline" is to be kept naturally. Thus partial beards like goatees etc are expressly prohibited.

* Note: Since sin is transgression of the law, and since the law prohibits the shaving of the beard except in certain exceptional cases, it is a SIN for a man to shave the beard except in those exceptional cases. This should come as no surprise. After all, how many assert it is a sin for a woman to cut her hair (even though technically there is no actual command in the law prohibiting a woman cutting her hair)? Well, there IS a direct command FROM GOD ALMIGHTY commanding men to maintain a natural beard.
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  #90  
Old 06-25-2021, 07:54 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker/The PTL Club Controver

As a matter of curiosity, it seems that they used to trim their mustache:

2 Samuel 19:24
Now Mephibosheth the son of Saul came down to meet the king. And he had not cared for his feet, nor trimmed his mustache, nor washed his clothes, from the day the king departed until the day he returned in peace.
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