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Old 02-26-2011, 08:21 PM
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Margies3 Margies3 is offline
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Something I thought I would never see............

On Facebook, I am "friends" with a large UPC church in our area.. I was just reading what different people had posted this evening and almost fell off of my chair when I saw that this was what they said...

‎"I think we've made this relationship with God not about a relationship, but about meeting requirements."

I TOTALLY agree! And am thrilled beyond measure to see them say it. But this is not something I would have expected to see even 2 or 3 years ago. Don't get me wrong. I love this church and think the world of the the pastor.

Maybe I was stunned because I talked with someone else today who goes to a UPC church where the pastor recently said from the pulpit that they are not holding a hard line on standards anymore. (don't ask me who or where, because I will not say). Again, I am not upset about that. Just very, very surprised! Things have changed alot in the last 20 years, haven't they! (for the better, if you ask me )
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Old 02-26-2011, 08:25 PM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

Ummm, glad to see they've finally figured this out.
I attend what you would call a UC church and this is what has been preached from the day I arrived here.
As a matter of fact, that's what been preached in the last three churches I have attended over a 15 year span.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:13 PM
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Elizabeth Elizabeth is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 View Post
On Facebook, I am "friends" with a large UPC church in our area.. I was just reading what different people had posted this evening and almost fell off of my chair when I saw that this was what they said...

‎"I think we've made this relationship with God not about a relationship, but about meeting requirements."

I TOTALLY agree! And am thrilled beyond measure to see them say it. But this is not something I would have expected to see even 2 or 3 years ago. Don't get me wrong. I love this church and think the world of the the pastor.

Maybe I was stunned because I talked with someone else today who goes to a UPC church where the pastor recently said from the pulpit that they are not holding a hard line on standards anymore. (don't ask me who or where, because I will not say). Again, I am not upset about that. Just very, very surprised! Things have changed alot in the last 20 years, haven't they! (for the better, if you ask me )
Wow, that is rather surprising! Usually you keep those thoughts to yourself. Perhaps being FB people feel less inhibited to keep their thoughts to themselves and feel they can be more honest.

it's rather a perceptive remark.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:32 PM
kclee4jc kclee4jc is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 View Post
On Facebook, I am "friends" with a large UPC church in our area.. I was just reading what different people had posted this evening and almost fell off of my chair when I saw that this was what they said...

‎"I think we've made this relationship with God not about a relationship, but about meeting requirements."

I TOTALLY agree! And am thrilled beyond measure to see them say it. But this is not something I would have expected to see even 2 or 3 years ago. Don't get me wrong. I love this church and think the world of the the pastor.

Maybe I was stunned because I talked with someone else today who goes to a UPC church where the pastor recently said from the pulpit that they are not holding a hard line on standards anymore. (don't ask me who or where, because I will not say). Again, I am not upset about that. Just very, very surprised! Things have changed alot in the last 20 years, haven't they! (for the better, if you ask me )
Sadly, many are moving in this direction right now. The scripture tells us that in the last days many shall depart from the faith. We're seeing it happen.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:46 PM
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

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Sadly, many are moving in this direction right now. The scripture tells us that in the last days many shall depart from the faith. We're seeing it happen.
Where?
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:15 PM
Dagwood Dagwood is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

Sadly??? No, it's a good thing. People are able to read and decipher for themselves what God's word says and what it will take to get to Heaven.

So many preachers have taken the Bible, meant to be a foundation for Christian living, and have gone ahead and built the house, walls and all. The UPC is nothing but a generational cycle of traditions passed down from one person to another without even the remote possibility of cross-examining what's being passed down.

So, to those who keep their traditions without the subliminal message "you're going to Hell if you don't abide by these rules," you have my respect. For the others, like OPII, who continue their over-religious, ultra-traditional, non-Biblical, and quite frankly poor judgemental non-sense, see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya 'cause I've already been down that road since it was so narrow and off balance. The more people wake up and realize all the rules, regulations, and standards are totally not of God, and will actually experience grace as it was meant to be in the Bible, then I think we'll hear of more stories of redemption and grace coming from people who have either never experienced God before or those who've been cast to the curb since they didn't measure up to a man's ridiculous rule the first time around...
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:26 PM
kclee4jc kclee4jc is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

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Originally Posted by Dagwood View Post
Sadly??? No, it's a good thing. People are able to read and decipher for themselves what God's word says and what it will take to get to Heaven.

So many preachers have taken the Bible, meant to be a foundation for Christian living, and have gone ahead and built the house, walls and all. The UPC is nothing but a generational cycle of traditions passed down from one person to another without even the remote possibility of cross-examining what's being passed down.

So, to those who keep their traditions without the subliminal message "you're going to Hell if you don't abide by these rules," you have my respect. For the others, like OPII, who continue their over-religious, ultra-traditional, non-Biblical, and quite frankly poor judgemental non-sense, see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya 'cause I've already been down that road since it was so narrow and off balance. The more people wake up and realize all the rules, regulations, and standards are totally not of God, and will actually experience grace as it was meant to be in the Bible, then I think we'll hear of more stories of redemption and grace coming from people who have either never experienced God before or those who've been cast to the curb since they didn't measure up to a man's ridiculous rule the first time around...
Just to point out one thing here. If you want to attack an idea or movement...the "narrow road" is not a wise choice of words. Seeing how Jesus said that is the only road that will lead to eternal life..
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:36 PM
Dagwood Dagwood is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

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Originally Posted by kclee4jc View Post
Just to point out one thing here. If you want to attack an idea or movement...the "narrow road" is not a wise choice of words. Seeing how Jesus said that is the only road that will lead to eternal life..
First of all, you choosing to label what I said as an attack is sligtly off course. I am in no way attacking anyone or a movement. So, choose your words wisely. Yes, I fully understand the "narrow" way is the way to eternal life. But, where does grace come into the picture with such rigid rules in place? It doesn't, even though it's preached that it does...

Go ahead and defend whatever you believe. Not sure if this is the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those who's been raised in it all your life. Religious tradition is a terrible thing to hold on to, especially when Jesus himself despised it and hated it...
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:45 PM
kclee4jc kclee4jc is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

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Originally Posted by Dagwood View Post
First of all, you choosing to label what I said as an attack is sligtly off course. I am in no way attacking anyone or a movement. So, choose your words wisely. Yes, I fully understand the "narrow" way is the way to eternal life. But, where does grace come into the picture with such rigid rules in place? It doesn't, even though it's preached that it does...

Go ahead and defend whatever you believe. Not sure if this is the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those who's been raised in it all your life. Religious tradition is a terrible thing to hold on to, especially when Jesus himself despised it and hated it...
I'm going to go against my better judgement and respond to this once more. I was raised by alcoholic/drug addict parents. Mother was deeply involved in New Age and i received the Holy Ghost on the street corner when i was 12..not because i went to any kind of church that believed in it (never been to a pentecostal church) but because i read about it in the scripture and wanted HIM! 4 years later, after a great deal of difficulty holding onto my experience due to the environment i was raised in, I was led to Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ and holiness. I spent many months studying the Godhead, water baptism in the scripture and in history, and holiness. After several months of God dealing with me, i finally left the Assembly of God i had been attending and was baptized in Jesus name, got a hair cut (it was pretty long!) and began to walk in the revelation God had given me. So no, I was not raised this way. Yes! I have sought truth and come to this truth by the revelation of Jesus Christ! I pray that i NEVER back down from what HE has given me!
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:09 AM
Dagwood Dagwood is offline
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Re: Something I thought I would never see.........

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Originally Posted by kclee4jc View Post
I'm going to go against my better judgement and respond to this once more. I was raised by alcoholic/drug addict parents. Mother was deeply involved in New Age and i received the Holy Ghost on the street corner when i was 12..not because i went to any kind of church that believed in it (never been to a pentecostal church) but because i read about it in the scripture and wanted HIM! 4 years later, after a great deal of difficulty holding onto my experience due to the environment i was raised in, I was led to Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ and holiness. I spent many months studying the Godhead, water baptism in the scripture and in history, and holiness. After several months of God dealing with me, i finally left the Assembly of God i had been attending and was baptized in Jesus name, got a hair cut (it was pretty long!) and began to walk in the revelation God had given me. So no, I was not raised this way. Yes! I have sought truth and come to this truth by the revelation of Jesus Christ! I pray that i NEVER back down from what HE has given me!
Then, it sounds like we both come from environments where there was no solid faith foundation. To tell you the truth, I've been inside nearly every type denominatioal church there is...from Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, Pentecostal. The common demoniator is they all believe they've got the truth. Sadly, NO ONE has the truth they say they have...and by that, I mean all the extra stuff added to what it takes to getting to Heaven. I found my salvation on my own, salvation in Jesus with the Holy Ghost baptism. It wasn't my parents, grandparents, aunts or uncles. It was me. Becase of the emptiness I was feeling, the lonliess I was sick and tired of. So, off I went to a moderate Pentecostal church in Mesquite, TX under the pastorship of Keith Layne. Got a hold of something there, but he passed away. So, I moved away to a church in Terrell, which was quite a bit more conservative than where I was in Mesq. Not a big deal. However, things quickly took a turn for the unexpected when my folks kicked me out of the house for taking such drastic measures to clean up my life. I mean, what else was there for me to do other than get rid of this and that 'cause I wanted to be "used of God." Well, long story short, it's been a back and forth type thing with relatives over and over for the past nearly 10 years, speaking and not speaking. 3-1/2 years ago, we moved to where we are now and had started going to a church pastored by Jeff Hennigan, who's the son-in-law to the Manguns in Alex, LA. Talk about a change! So much was put into perspective, that living for God is not about extremes one way or the other. It's about you and God, on an individual basis. Still a spirit-believing chuch, no doubt, with baptisms in Jesus' name occuring often. So, after experiencing a more moderate atmosphere of worship and Christian living, I don't foresee myself leaving what I know now. For those, like I said, that choose to keep their walk in a more traditional manner, do it. Just don't view me in a different light as being a backslider since I don't follow the same path. And I've seen that all too often. It's ridiculous. I have friends who are still the same in their faith walk, yet carry on and fellowship with me as if I've always been a part of them. Makes a big difference!

Would I go back and change some things on decisions I've made, I sure would. And it would be with the same people that have been in my life for the past 10 or so years. Instead of living in regret for what choices I've made, I've had to look at it as learning experiences and believe God orchestrated every step of the way to become stronger in Him...
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