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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #231  
Old 07-28-2022, 07:10 PM
Tithesmeister Tithesmeister is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

QUOTE=good samaritan;1610630]Not really, I know it is a case by case thing, but most pastors here locally where I am from are not teaching for filthy lucre. They honestly believe that tithing is a forever principle that they practice as well. Some of the most glamorous showy churches around are not Tithe teachers, but that doesnít mean they arenít pushing that plate enthusiastically.

Those free will offerings you received, did any of them happen to be someoneís tithe you received?[/QUOTE]

How about you brother. Turn about is fair play. Is any of the six thousand dollars you receive, somebodyís tithe money?

I sure hope none of it came from a poor widow.
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  #232  
Old 07-28-2022, 08:36 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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How about you brother. Turn about is fair play. Is any of the six thousand dollars you receive, somebody’s tithe money?

I sure hope none of it came from a poor widow.
We have already discussed this. I have already explained, about my salary and how our church receives resources (via tithes and offerings). That isn’t answering my question. That turnabout has already been about me. Or, do you rake people over the coals for doing something that you do?

Last edited by good samaritan; 07-28-2022 at 08:48 PM.
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  #233  
Old 07-28-2022, 08:52 PM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

The question stands have you ever had someone give you tithes? If you have it is probably because someone taught it to them. If it was a complete heresy as has been presented, then it would be ironic to have received from it. IMHO

Last edited by good samaritan; 07-28-2022 at 09:11 PM.
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  #234  
Old 07-28-2022, 10:52 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Those free will offerings you received, did any of them happen to be someone’s tithe you received?
Nope, 100% free will offering. In part directly giving to me from the collected offering, in part from non-tithe funds.
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  #235  
Old 07-28-2022, 10:57 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
Not really, I know it is a case by case thing, but most pastors here locally where I am from are not teaching for filthy lucre. They honestly believe that tithing is a forever principle that they practice as well. Some of the most glamorous showy churches around are not Tithe teachers, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t pushing that plate enthusiastically.
What I meant was that tithe does not set any limit, but it sets the minimum, and that's how preachers preach it in most churches, as the minimum. The tele-evangelists say if you send them some offering, you get "healed" or whatever they sell you, but at least it is not a minimum. Tithing preachers say in most church you must give a that minimum to start getting blessings from God, otherwise you are robbing, and they quote Malachi, implicitly saying you better be ready for some curses. What's worse? really? It seems that you haven't heard some tithing preaching from other churches in a while.

Do you realize your stand on tithing is actually rare?

Last edited by coksiw; 07-28-2022 at 11:06 PM.
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  #236  
Old 07-28-2022, 11:09 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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The question stands have you ever had someone give you tithes? If you have it is probably because someone taught it to them. If it was a complete heresy as has been presented, then it would be ironic to have received from it. IMHO
I would absolutely reject any offering giving to me in concept of "tithe". Absolutely. Because I know what they are coming from: a wrong teaching in their head.
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  #237  
Old 08-07-2022, 10:41 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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I teach that people should give, tithing is one proven method to do it. I donít see where that necessitates any burden on the flock. I do think everyone should examine themselves as to whether we are fulfilling our call in seeking first the kingdom. I believe that includes financial support of local church ministries.
Amen. Proven is the key. I have PROVED God blesses those who give tithes. But by no means is it to be restricted to one-tenth.
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  #238  
Old 08-07-2022, 10:42 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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I would absolutely reject any offering giving to me in concept of "tithe". Absolutely. Because I know what they are coming from: a wrong teaching in their head.
God accepted it because I distinctly saw him undoubtedly BLESS people for doing so.
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  #239  
Old 08-07-2022, 10:43 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

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The context. Let's see what group is comparing himself with:

1Co 9:1, 5, 12 KJV - (1) Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? ... (5) Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? ... (12) If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Clear?

Also, what right is he talking about?

Jesus taught that the people of the city you are going into to start congregations should voluntarily support you while you are there evangelizing: Luk 9:2-4, Luk 10:3-9, (also in Matt, and Mar).

Notice this interesting part:
Luk 10:7 NKJV - (7) "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house.

That was a lesson for them to show them how to do it at that time. They would go, the people of the city responding to the message should financially help them, but it was "as they give". The interesting thing was that their first experience doing so was in the cities of Israel, so they definitely couldn't go around saying "I'm your new levites, gives all your tithes to me" LOL.

Anyways,
That's what apostles did:

Peter staying with Simon tanner while ministrying in Joppa: Act 9:43
Paul stayed with Lydia, a new believer, while he preached in the area: Act 16:14-15

Now, this is what happened in Corinth:
Paul stayed with Aquila and Priscilla, while he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and worked as a tentmaker: Acts 18:1-4
Then, he moved to Justus's house, who lived beside the synagogue, who was a new believer, for one year and six months while he taught: Act 18:6-11.

But apparently, according to 1 Corinthians, he didn't stop working as a tentmaker, while he could have.

Does everything make sense now in Context? That's Paul's point in 1 Corinthians. We don't have to put into the text more meaning extrapolating it into "bishops".



Now, many Pastors that are sent to a town, are in reality evangelist, trying to start a church. It is a lot of work at the beginning. I see nothing wrong with locals and also other churches supporting him to go as full time as they can.

Also, I see no problem with supporting pastors that are trying to go full time as Bible teachers because there is a huge demand for ministry training.

In general, I see no problem with supporting certain individuals full time for ministry as long as what they are doing has to do with missionary work locally, or training many others for missionary work; as long as it is from voluntary offering, without coercion.

If the pastor is just being a "catholic priest", it is like, meh, no point.

But, there is also the principle of blessing those that teach you, which does not need to be a salary, but you can bless them in many ways.
Gal 6:6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.
You won't see the overall context of chapter 9, will you? A MINISTER OF THE WORD'S RIGHT to live OF the gospel. No one is as blind as those who will not see.
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  #240  
Old 08-07-2022, 10:45 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Notice this interesting part:
Luk 10:7 NKJV - (7) "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house.

That was a lesson for them to show them how to do it at that time. They would go, the people of the city responding to the message should financially help them, but it was "as they give". The interesting thing was that their first experience doing so was in the cities of Israel, so they definitely couldn't go around saying "I'm your new levites, gives all your tithes to me" LOL.
AS THEY GIVE is the people =n whose homes they stayed, not the men sent by Jesus.
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