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  #181  
Old 12-06-2020, 09:41 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Bowas View Post
You are right, When I used the word "siege," I was not referring to the actual attack, but from the time they saw Jerusalem surrounded by the gentiles, they fled, and were protected in the wilderness by God, as a hen protects her young.
Where are you getting this 3.5 year period when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies of gentiles? And when did it begin, and end?

Quote:
It seems you added a word that seems to remove to whom it was written to to remove it from them, and that word you wrote is "originally." I say it was written to them and for them, even though we can learn from it, and certain aspects we can glean from, but it wasn't to us.
Added a word to what? And, since the Revelation was written "for" the seven churches in Asia Minor, how was the whole book beneficial to them? I'm not understanding what exactly your point is. Is the Revelation simply a neat history book, like the Aenead, or Livy's Histories, that we can "glean... certain aspects" from? What does that mean? And what bearing does that have on the discussion here?


Quote:
I do believe Rev 12 was fulfilled in the first century, and is a depiction, using symbolic language, of the struggles, attacks and victory of the first century church.
Why? I mean, why do you believe that? Upon what basis?

Quote:
The church, (the true Israel) fled Jerusalem and was protected for 3.5 years, while Jerusalem was ravaged and went through her destruction.
There's that 3.5 year "ravaging and destruction of Jerusalem" thing again. Where is this coming from? Jerusalem was besieged and "ravaged" for about 6 and a half months.



Quote:
The "time frame" is pretty much limited to what is written, "shortly come to pass," "the time is at hand," and other such limiting declarations.
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(Mat 4:17)

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
(Mar 1:14-15)
Does this mean the kingdom was limited to the first century?
To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
(Deu 32:35-36)
Was this limited to the time shortly before, during, and perhaps immediately after the Conquest of Canaan? When did this come to pass?

Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
(Joe 1:15)
To what does this refer? When did Joel prophesy, and when did the Day of the Lord come to pass, seeing as it was "at hand" in his day?
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
(Luk 18:7-8)
In the above passage, the word "speedily" is the same word translated "shortly" in Revelation. With that in mind, can you explain how on the one hand God is said to "bear long with them" yet at the same time He is said to "avenge them speedily/shortly"?

Quote:
To remove it from to whom it was addressed, and to when it says it was for, we need clear proof, and not speculation, but we must take it and understand it as they did, the ones it was addressed to.

That is how I see it.
How did Christians in Asia Minor understand the Revelation? What was it's immediate significance to them? And, how would you know if you understood it the way they did?

Furthermore, if they did understand the Revelation the same way you do, is there any evidence of that? Are there any surviving writings from the early church - particularly from the area of Asia Minor - that would indicate they had the same understanding of the Apocalypse that you do? Is there any evidence that early Christians interpreted the Revelation as you do, that it strictly had application to first century Christians, especially those who had to deal with the destruction of Jerusalem?

(I am still not seeing exactly how relevant the destruction of Jerusalem was to Christians in Asia Minor, in the sense they needed to know about "fleeing into the wilderness for three and half years", especially considering the attack only lasted about 6 and a half months).
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  #182  
Old 12-06-2020, 09:41 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Brother, Jerusalem is nothing! I’m sorry if that offends you, yet, they need to be saved in Acts 2:38 just like you and myself. That nation doesn’t have ANY special treatments. Turn your eyes of Jesus and not on that nation, that hates Jesus.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.


No offense at all.
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  #183  
Old 12-06-2020, 09:46 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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  #184  
Old 12-06-2020, 09:49 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

Jesus resurrected the body to prove that he has power over death, hell, and the grave. If he came back as a spirit, would’ve the disciples believed?
Why not? Isn't that what they were expecting? Didn't they know what the resurrection was going to be like? Or did they miss something in Christ's teaching?

How does resurrecting a physical body prove anything about eternal life, if the resurrection to eternal life does not involve the physical body in any way? It sounds like you are saying Jesus had to deceive the disciples a wee bit in order to convince them He had risen from the dead.

Whereas it seems to me that He being risen from the dead was proven by Him actually being risen from the dead, quite physically, with no body left behind in the tomb.

You mention the tomato seed germinating into a proper tomato plant as an analogy of the "planting" of the mortal body and the raising of the spiritual immortal body. I think a closer analogy to your point of view would have been planting a tomato seed and then getting an invisible unseen tomato plant, with the dead rotting seed remaining in the ground. You could dig up the seed, clearly see that the seed was still there, rotting away, and then proclaim "We have a luscious full blown tomato plant ripe with juicy tomatoes!" Who would believe you? Would YOU even believe it?

Paul said IT is planted, and then IT is raised. The same thing planted is the same thing raised. When you plant a seed, and it germinates and produces a plant, the seed is no longer there in the ground. You will not be able to find the seed. The seed has itself become the new plant.

Which is remarkably what happened in Jesus' case. There was no body left in the tomb, no "seed" left to be found that had been planted. It then follows that the same case will prevail with us. There will be no body left in the ground when a saint is resurrected, just like in Christ's case.
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  #185  
Old 12-06-2020, 10:01 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Where are you getting this 3.5 year period when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies of gentiles? And when did it begin, and end? There's that 3.5 year "ravaging and destruction of Jerusalem" thing again. Where is this coming from? Jerusalem was besieged and "ravaged" for about 6 and a half months. (I am still not seeing exactly how relevant the destruction of Jerusalem was to Christians in Asia Minor, in the sense they needed to know about "fleeing into the wilderness for three and half years", especially considering the attack only lasted about 6 and a half months).
The actual siege was 5 months. What the whole proclamation from Nero to Tisha B'av in 70 A.D. was to the church families in Asia Minor? Is that Jesus made statements in Matthew 24, Luke 19:44, Mark 13:2, and Luke 21:5-22 which ends with the words "For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." Therefore not only Asia Minor church families, but all the Apostolic Church families in and around the Roman Empire.
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  #186  
Old 12-06-2020, 10:07 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Bowas View Post
So I take it, you believe Rev 12 is history too. What is your understanding of the man child, eagles wings, 1260 days etc?
Excerpt from a book

Daniel said the kingdom would be established in the days of the Roman Empire. He called it “the last days”

Daniel 2:28 KJVS
[28] But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;


From Daniel’s perspective it was hundreds of years away. From Gods perspective of course, it was only a moment, but that is not the issue. God was speaking to Daniel about things to happen in mans world, not eternity. This is why God did NOT cause Daniel to say they kingdom was “near”, “at hand”, “right at the door”, or coming “very, very soon”.

It was not until John the Baptizer came that the message, “KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND”, WAS PREACHED! And, the kingdom was established in the very generation that heard John say it was at hand.

Luke 21:28-32 KJVS
[28] And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
[29] And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
[30] When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
[31] So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
[32] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


Colossians 1:13 KJVS
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


In other words, God did not allow HIS prophets to say the kingdom was at hand until it was really at hand. It would’ve been less than honest if God had said the kingdom was imminent when it was really several hundreds of years away!
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  #187  
Old 12-06-2020, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
The actual siege was 5 months. What the whole proclamation from Nero to Tisha B'av in 70 A.D. was to the church families in Asia Minor? Is that Jesus made statements in Matthew 24, Luke 19:44, Mark 13:2, and Luke 21:5-22 which ends with the words "For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." Therefore not only Asia Minor church families, but all the Apostolic Church families in and around the Roman Empire.
I'm just wondering where the "3.5 year" thing is coming from in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem. I'm not finding any evidence of any 3.5 year period of anything in regards to foreign attack on Jerusalem.

Which proclamation of Nero are you referring to? Google is being problematic.
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  #188  
Old 12-06-2020, 01:42 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Where are you getting this 3.5 year period when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies of gentiles? And when did it begin, and end?



Added a word to what? And, since the Revelation was written "for" the seven churches in Asia Minor, how was the whole book beneficial to them? I'm not understanding what exactly your point is. Is the Revelation simply a neat history book, like the Aenead, or Livy's Histories, that we can "glean... certain aspects" from? What does that mean? And what bearing does that have on the discussion here?




Why? I mean, why do you believe that? Upon what basis?



There's that 3.5 year "ravaging and destruction of Jerusalem" thing again. Where is this coming from? Jerusalem was besieged and "ravaged" for about 6 and a half months.



From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(Mat 4:17)

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
(Mar 1:14-15)
Does this mean the kingdom was limited to the first century?
To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
(Deu 32:35-36)
Was this limited to the time shortly before, during, and perhaps immediately after the Conquest of Canaan? When did this come to pass?

Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
(Joe 1:15)
To what does this refer? When did Joel prophesy, and when did the Day of the Lord come to pass, seeing as it was "at hand" in his day?
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
(Luk 18:7-8)
In the above passage, the word "speedily" is the same word translated "shortly" in Revelation. With that in mind, can you explain how on the one hand God is said to "bear long with them" yet at the same time He is said to "avenge them speedily/shortly"?



How did Christians in Asia Minor understand the Revelation? What was it's immediate significance to them? And, how would you know if you understood it the way they did?

Furthermore, if they did understand the Revelation the same way you do, is there any evidence of that? Are there any surviving writings from the early church - particularly from the area of Asia Minor - that would indicate they had the same understanding of the Apocalypse that you do? Is there any evidence that early Christians interpreted the Revelation as you do, that it strictly had application to first century Christians, especially those who had to deal with the destruction of Jerusalem?

(I am still not seeing exactly how relevant the destruction of Jerusalem was to Christians in Asia Minor, in the sense they needed to know about "fleeing into the wilderness for three and half years", especially considering the attack only lasted about 6 and a half months).
3.5 years, time, times and half a time, 1260 days is all the same, and we find the Church (woman) fled Jerusalem during the Gentile surrounding of Jerusalem, and according to scripture, she was protected for 3.5 years.

The Book was beneficial to the ones it was addressed to, as it was telling them of what was about to befall that region.

No. Revelation was not a "neat little history book," when John wrote it, but was in fact a neat prophectic book for them to know, the time was at hand.

Why do I believe Rev 12 was written for the first century? Quite simply, the book is written to them of things that would be fulfilled during that time, the time of the end.

Why would you think it was not for them then, the ones it was addressed to?


Not sure how you derive the Kingdom of God was confined to the first century church, as I never suggested that, however, that is when it did arrive.


As far as, if I understand Revelation as they did, the ones it was written to, I cannot say I understand it fully as they did, but I am trying, but I do not find any credible scripture to suggest they thought it was referring to people or places thousands of miles and thousands of years removed. No. It is simply not there.

So with that fact, the "manchild ministry" is not some super Christian ministry as some try to make it, but was birthed from the woman, with is the church.

There are two women in Revelation. One a harlot, one a virgin. One Old Jerusalem, the other New Jerusalem. One the old Covenant, the other the New Covenant.

Last edited by Bowas; 12-06-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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  #189  
Old 12-06-2020, 01:53 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I'm just wondering where the "3.5 year" thing is coming from in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem. I'm not finding any evidence of any 3.5 year period of anything in regards to foreign attack on Jerusalem.

Which proclamation of Nero are you referring to? Google is being problematic.

The Romans Destroy the Temple

at Jerusalem, 70 AD


In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Romans. In response, the Emperor Nero dispatched an army under the generalship of Vespasian to restore order. By the year 68, resistance in the northern part of the province had been eradicated and the Romans turned their full attention to the subjugation of Jerusalem. That same year, the Emperor Nero died by his own hand, creating a power vacuum in Rome. In the resultant chaos, Vespasian was declared Emperor and returned to the Imperial City. It fell to his son, Titus, to lead the remaining army in the assault on Jerusalem.


The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.

In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory.

The rebellion sputtered on for another three years and was finally extinguished in 73 AD with the fall of the various pockets of resistance including the stronghold at Masada.

"...the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy."

Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius. Josephus was a former leader of the Jewish Revolt who had surrendered to the Romans and had won favor from Vespasian. In gratitude, Josephus took on Vespasian's family name - Flavius - as his own. We join his account as the Romans fight their way into the inner sanctum of the Temple:

"...the rebels shortly after attacked the Romans again, and a clash followed between the guards of the sanctuary and the troops who were putting out the fire inside the inner court; the latter routed the Jews and followed in hot pursuit right up to the Temple itself. Then one of the soldiers, without awaiting any orders and with no dread of so momentous a deed, but urged on by some supernatural force, snatched a blazing piece of wood and, climbing on another soldier's back, hurled the flaming brand through a low golden window that gave access, on the north side, to the rooms that surrounded the sanctuary. As the flames shot up, the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy; they flocked to the rescue, with no thought of sparing their lives or husbanding their strength; for the sacred structure that they had constantly guarded with such devotion was vanishing before their very eyes.

...No exhortation or threat could now restrain the impetuosity of the legions; for passion was in supreme command. Crowded together around the entrances, many were trampled down by their companions; others, stumbling on the smoldering and smoked-filled ruins of the porticoes, died as miserably as the defeated. As they drew closer to the Temple, they pretended not even to hear Caesar's orders, but urged the men in front to throw in more firebrands. The rebels were powerless to help; carnage and flight spread throughout.

Most of the slain were peaceful citizens, weak and unarmed, and they were butchered where they were caught. The heap of corpses mounted higher and higher about the altar; a stream of blood flowed down the Temple's steps, and the bodies of those slain at the top slipped to the bottom.

When Caesar (Titus) failed to restrain the fury of his frenzied soldiers, and the fire could not be checked, he entered the building with his generals and looked at the holy place of the sanctuary and all its furnishings, which exceeded by far the accounts current in foreign lands and fully justified their splendid repute in our own.

As the flames had not yet penetrated to the inner sanctum, but were consuming the chambers that surrounded the sanctuary, Titus assumed correctly that there was still time to save the structure; he ran out and by personal appeals he endeavored to persuade his men to put out the fire, instructing Liberalius, a centurion of his bodyguard of lancers, to club any of the men who disobeyed his orders. But their respect for Caesar and their fear of the centurion's staff who was trying to check them were overpowered by their rage, their detestation of the Jews, and an utterly uncontrolled lust for battle.


Most of them were spurred on, moreover, by the expectation of loot, convinced that the interior was full of money and dazzled by observing that everything around them was made of gold. But they were forestalled by one of those who had entered into the building, and who, when Caesar (Titus) dashed out to restrain the troops, pushed a firebrand, in the darkness, into the hinges of the gate Then, when the flames suddenly shot up from the interior, Caesar (Titus) and his generals withdrew, and no one was left to prevent those outside from kindling the blaze. Thus, in defiance of Caesar's (Titus') wishes, the Temple was set on fire.

While the Temple was ablaze, the attackers plundered it, and countless people who were caught by them were slaughtered. There was no pity for age and no regard was accorded rank; children and old men, laymen and priests, alike were butchered; every class was pursued and crushed in the grip of war, whether they cried out for mercy or offered resistance.

Through the roar of the flames streaming far and wide, the groans of the falling victims were heard; such was the height of the hill and the magnitude of the blazing pile that the entire city seemed to be ablaze; and the noise - nothing more deafening and frightening could be imagined.

There were the war cries of the Roman legions as they swept onwards en masse, the yells of the rebels encircled by fire and sword, the panic of the people who, cut off above, fled into the arms of the enemy, and their shrieks as they met their fate. The cries on the hill blended with those of the multitudes in the city below; and now many people who were exhausted and tongue-tied as a result of hunger, when they beheld the Temple on fire, found strength once more to lament and wail. Peraea and the surrounding hills, added their echoes to the deafening din. But more horrifying than the din were the sufferings.

The Temple Mount, everywhere enveloped in flames, seemed to be boiling over from its base; yet the blood seemed more abundant than the flames and the numbers of the slain greater than those of the slayers. The soldiers climbed over heaps of bodies as they chased the fugitives."

References:
Josephus' account appears in: Cornfield, Gaalya ed., Josephus, The Jewish War (1982); Duruy, Victor, History of Rome vol. V (1883).

How To Cite This Article:
"The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD," EyeWitness to History, www.eyewitnesstohistory.com (2005).
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  #190  
Old 12-06-2020, 02:57 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
The Romans Destroy the Temple

at Jerusalem, 70 AD


In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Romans. In response, the Emperor Nero dispatched an army under the generalship of Vespasian to restore order. By the year 68, resistance in the northern part of the province had been eradicated and the Romans turned their full attention to the subjugation of Jerusalem. That same year, the Emperor Nero died by his own hand, creating a power vacuum in Rome. In the resultant chaos, Vespasian was declared Emperor and returned to the Imperial City. It fell to his son, Titus, to lead the remaining army in the assault on Jerusalem.


The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.

In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory.

The rebellion sputtered on for another three years and was finally extinguished in 73 AD with the fall of the various pockets of resistance including the stronghold at Masada.

"...the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy."

Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius. Josephus was a former leader of the Jewish Revolt who had surrendered to the Romans and had won favor from Vespasian. In gratitude, Josephus took on Vespasian's family name - Flavius - as his own. We join his account as the Romans fight their way into the inner sanctum of the Temple:

"...the rebels shortly after attacked the Romans again, and a clash followed between the guards of the sanctuary and the troops who were putting out the fire inside the inner court; the latter routed the Jews and followed in hot pursuit right up to the Temple itself. Then one of the soldiers, without awaiting any orders and with no dread of so momentous a deed, but urged on by some supernatural force, snatched a blazing piece of wood and, climbing on another soldier's back, hurled the flaming brand through a low golden window that gave access, on the north side, to the rooms that surrounded the sanctuary. As the flames shot up, the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy; they flocked to the rescue, with no thought of sparing their lives or husbanding their strength; for the sacred structure that they had constantly guarded with such devotion was vanishing before their very eyes.

...No exhortation or threat could now restrain the impetuosity of the legions; for passion was in supreme command. Crowded together around the entrances, many were trampled down by their companions; others, stumbling on the smoldering and smoked-filled ruins of the porticoes, died as miserably as the defeated. As they drew closer to the Temple, they pretended not even to hear Caesar's orders, but urged the men in front to throw in more firebrands. The rebels were powerless to help; carnage and flight spread throughout.

Most of the slain were peaceful citizens, weak and unarmed, and they were butchered where they were caught. The heap of corpses mounted higher and higher about the altar; a stream of blood flowed down the Temple's steps, and the bodies of those slain at the top slipped to the bottom.

When Caesar (Titus) failed to restrain the fury of his frenzied soldiers, and the fire could not be checked, he entered the building with his generals and looked at the holy place of the sanctuary and all its furnishings, which exceeded by far the accounts current in foreign lands and fully justified their splendid repute in our own.

As the flames had not yet penetrated to the inner sanctum, but were consuming the chambers that surrounded the sanctuary, Titus assumed correctly that there was still time to save the structure; he ran out and by personal appeals he endeavored to persuade his men to put out the fire, instructing Liberalius, a centurion of his bodyguard of lancers, to club any of the men who disobeyed his orders. But their respect for Caesar and their fear of the centurion's staff who was trying to check them were overpowered by their rage, their detestation of the Jews, and an utterly uncontrolled lust for battle.


Most of them were spurred on, moreover, by the expectation of loot, convinced that the interior was full of money and dazzled by observing that everything around them was made of gold. But they were forestalled by one of those who had entered into the building, and who, when Caesar (Titus) dashed out to restrain the troops, pushed a firebrand, in the darkness, into the hinges of the gate Then, when the flames suddenly shot up from the interior, Caesar (Titus) and his generals withdrew, and no one was left to prevent those outside from kindling the blaze. Thus, in defiance of Caesar's (Titus') wishes, the Temple was set on fire.

While the Temple was ablaze, the attackers plundered it, and countless people who were caught by them were slaughtered. There was no pity for age and no regard was accorded rank; children and old men, laymen and priests, alike were butchered; every class was pursued and crushed in the grip of war, whether they cried out for mercy or offered resistance.

Through the roar of the flames streaming far and wide, the groans of the falling victims were heard; such was the height of the hill and the magnitude of the blazing pile that the entire city seemed to be ablaze; and the noise - nothing more deafening and frightening could be imagined.

There were the war cries of the Roman legions as they swept onwards en masse, the yells of the rebels encircled by fire and sword, the panic of the people who, cut off above, fled into the arms of the enemy, and their shrieks as they met their fate. The cries on the hill blended with those of the multitudes in the city below; and now many people who were exhausted and tongue-tied as a result of hunger, when they beheld the Temple on fire, found strength once more to lament and wail. Peraea and the surrounding hills, added their echoes to the deafening din. But more horrifying than the din were the sufferings.

The Temple Mount, everywhere enveloped in flames, seemed to be boiling over from its base; yet the blood seemed more abundant than the flames and the numbers of the slain greater than those of the slayers. The soldiers climbed over heaps of bodies as they chased the fugitives."

References:
Josephus' account appears in: Cornfield, Gaalya ed., Josephus, The Jewish War (1982); Duruy, Victor, History of Rome vol. V (1883).

How To Cite This Article:
"The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD," EyeWitness to History, www.eyewitnesstohistory.com (2005).
Bro Benincasa. I have always enjoyed your perspective and studies, so I ask this as one would ask an elder. (not in the aged sense, but in the respect sense) but what do you see Rev 12 as?

There are so many ideas, but most have fatal flaws, and I can't help but see it as the woman in the church, and she was clothed with the glory of God (sun) the moon under her feet (law or satan Rom_16:20) and the twelve stars, the authority of the Apostles ministries, and the man child being the gospel of Jesus Christ. (short version)
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