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  #11  
Old 05-11-2013, 06:40 AM
larrylyates larrylyates is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
The problem arises when one forgets that there is a difference between holiness and righteousness.
This is such an important distinction! I wish you would expand on it, here or in another Thread. The readers will benefit from that discussion.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2013, 09:31 AM
MarieA27 MarieA27 is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
The problem arises when one forgets that there is a difference between holiness and righteousness.
I think this is partially true. If you're holy you will be righteous, but if you're righteous, you're not necessarily holy.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2013, 01:16 PM
LifeUncommon LifeUncommon is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

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Originally Posted by Livelystone View Post
If Christ is formed in you, you will fulfill the law today the same as He did 2000 years ago because it is Him in you doing it and not you doing what no man can do by fulfilling the law.

Jesus is the one who writes His Laws on your heart and whatever your heart wants is what your body does.

That you can take to the bank........ whether you realize it or not makes no difference !!!

Doug
Wow. Speechless. Lol...carry on!
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2013, 01:46 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

That was well put.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2013, 04:16 PM
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Livelystone Livelystone is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
That was well put.
Since both the you are at about the same level let me see if I can make it simple enough for you to understand.

All Christians today are somewhere from having left Egypt and crossed the Red Sea, and are now in the wilderness struggling to find their way to the promised land that for us is heaven on earth.

Seven weeks into their journey they arrived at Mount Sinai where the law was given at the time of Pentecost. Therefore, it is the job of the Holy Spirit given to us at pentecost to fulfill the promise of God to write his laws upon our heart. (Let me know if you need Scripture for this or anything else)

When those laws are understood as mature Christians able to eat meat because those who are immature when they read the law can only drink milk. (Because when the law was read at the time of Pentecost through a "literal only understanding of the law," they thought the law forbid the eating of meat and drinking milk at the same time). However, those who have a mature understanding of the law know that the purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ, because when understood spiritually the laws are directional signs for how we are to get through the wilderness and into the promised land at the time of Tabernacles when the Israelites were supposed to enter in. Unfortunately they could not because of the sin of unbelief in the truth and they could only enter in by crossing the Jordan (death). Therefore, they failed because of their literal understanding of the law we are told there still remains a rest for the people of God

On the other hand those who know the truth of the law know they can eat meat and drink milk at the same time because the law is not to be taken literally.

The sin of unbelief was they did not think they could conquer the promised land because they were lacking faith. For us our faith is what we believe but without understanding the law spiritually you will never learn the truth that is necessary to know BEFORE CHRIST CAN EVER BE FORMED IN YOU!

Without understanding the law spiritually you will never move beyond the mere basics (milk) and will continue to remain in bondage to whatever traditions and doctrines of men your church teaches. Because the law of the seed is simple to understand I continually point out that without understanding the law of the seed you will never learn how the seed that is Christ in you can mature into the tree of life that is Jesus Christ a.k.a. Christ formed in you.

Understanding the spiritual aspects of the laws allows them to become your tutors and governors. Because, when the Bible says that Christ is the end of the law, it is not saying that the law has come to its end, but instead the word translated as “end” means the fulfillment of it. Consequently the verse is saying that Christ is the fulfillment of the law which is exactly I'm trying to say to you and your friend. Unfortunately neither of the two of you have yet to be able to figure it out.

When Christ fulfilled the law he did not fulfill it by a literal interpretation given evidence by His sabbath day works. That was why the Pharisees found so much fault with him because in their limited mindset Jesus was breaking the law because their understanding was not, "mixed with faith". However, when considered spiritually wise Jesus fulfilled the law so well that every "T" was crossed and every "I"was dotted.

And to this day the church has no idea what that means but when the law is understood and taught as Jesus said it is to be in Matthew chapter 5, by those who Jesus said will called great in His kingdom, is when you'll start to see the church doing the same miracles that the 1st century church did.

Therefore I continue to say when the truth returned to the church so will signs and wonders returned to the church......... including the one you go to !!!

Doug

Last edited by Livelystone; 05-11-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2013, 11:51 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone View Post
Since both the you are at about the same level let me see if I can make it simple enough for you to understand.

All Christians today are somewhere from having left Egypt and crossed the Red Sea, and are now in the wilderness struggling to find their way to the promised land that for us is heaven on earth.

Seven weeks into their journey they arrived at Mount Sinai where the law was given at the time of Pentecost. Therefore, it is the job of the Holy Spirit given to us at pentecost to fulfill the promise of God to write his laws upon our heart. (Let me Knott if you need Scripture for this or anything else)

When those laws are understood as mature Christians able to eat meat because those who are immature when they read the law can only drink milk. (Because when the law was read at the time of Pentecost through a "literal only understanding of the law," they thought the law forbid the eating of meat and drinking milk at the same time). However, those who have a mature understanding of the law know that the purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ, because when understood spiritually the laws are directional signs for how we are to get through the wilderness and into the promised land at the time of Tabernacles when the Israelites were supposed to enter in. Unfortunately they could not because of the sin of unbelief in the truth and they could only enter in by crossing the Jordan (death). Therefore, they failed because of their literal understanding of the law we are told there still remains a rest for the people of God

On the other hand those who know the truth of the law know they can eat meat and drink milk at the same time because the law is not to be taken literally.

The sin of unbelief was they did not think they could conquer the promised land because they were lacking faith. For us our faith is what we believe but without understanding the law spiritually you will never learn the truth that is necessary to know BEFORE CHRIST CAN EVER BE FORMED IN YOU!

Without understanding the law spiritually you will never move beyond the mere basics (milk) and will continue to remain in bondage to whatever traditions and doctrines of men your church teaches. Because the law of the seed is simple to understand I continually point out that without understanding the law of the seed you will never learn how the seed that is Christ in you can mature into the tree of life that is Jesus Christ a.k.a. Christ formed in you.

Understanding the spiritual aspects of the laws allows them to become your tutors and governors. Because, when the Bible says that Christ is the end of the law, it is not saying that the law has come to its end, but instead the word translated as “end” means the fulfillment of it. Consequently the verse is saying that Christ is the fulfillment of the law which is exactly I'm trying to say to you and your friend. Unfortunately neither of the two of you have yet to be able to figure it out.

When Christ fulfilled the law he did not fulfill it by a literal interpretation given evidence by His sabbath day works. That was why the Pharisees found so much fault with him because in their limited mindset Jesus was breaking the law because their understanding was not, "mixed with faith". However, when considered spiritually wise Jesus fulfilled the law so well that every "T" was crossed and every "I"was dotted.

And to this day the church has no idea what that means but when the law is understood and taught as Jesus said it is to be in Matthew chapter 5, by those who Jesus said will called great in His kingdom, is when you'll start to see the church doing the same miracles that the 1st century church did.

Therefore I continue to say when the truth returned to the church so will signs and wonders returned to the church......... including the one you go to !!!

Doug
Just so I can see where you are coming from I am assuming that you do not take it literal but rather adopt more of of an allegorical approach. Am I correct in this?
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2013, 06:01 AM
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Livelystone Livelystone is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Just so I can see where you are coming from I am assuming that you do not take it literal but rather adopt more of of an allegorical approach. Am I correct in this?
Not 100% allegorical but allegories do play a very important part in both the law and prophecy for us. However, that does not throw out all the do's and don'ts of a literal interpretation of the law for example lying and stealing, etc., are still sins. What I am saying is because God is not the author of confusion the same laws that apply in the literal world also apply in the spiritual world. Therefore, what is seen in the inside (spiritual) is witnessed on the outside by the actions of the body (literal)

As soon as someone decides they are going to overcome sin and fulfill the law they have already guaranteed themselves failure because only Christ can fulfill the law. Therefore rather than us try to be more attentive in our defenses to overcome temptation we need to find more of the truth of Christ so that the seed that is Christ in us can mature and grow both larger and stronger. The eventual hopeful outcome is it will crowd out the seed of our "old man" with its = knowledge of good and evil that is in all of mankind. Because Christ did not sin and cannot sin the way to overcoming sin is to have Christ in our hearts 24/7.

However, for that to happen we first have to know the absolute truth of the foundational doctrines listed in Hebrews 6:1–2 that cannot be known without first knowing how to apply the laws spiritually. For that matter we cannot even determine true doctrinal knowledge without first knowing how to use the laws for determining the truth.

The best way to understand what I preach, teach, and live by is to read the book that I wrote. If I could afford to I would send everyone a free copy that wanted one. Unfortunately, and because I am broke the next best thing is a free preview of the 1st 3 1/2 chapters that can be had at the following link. This company adds a premium to the full retail price for their free shipping policy, however, in my opinion they have the most comprehensive free preview and is easier to read than the one Amazon has. I am not trying to sell you a book but there is no other place where what I say is being taught by anyone else. In all reality the book has caused me a lot of trouble but I wrote it by commandment and not by choice.

How to use the laws spiritually starts with the 2nd chapter that you can read by just clicking on the Google “free preview button”.

http://www.bookdepository.com/Modern.../9781457502941

Other sites have the book cheaper and e-books are the cheapest of all

Blessings

Doug
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2013, 08:46 AM
LifeUncommon LifeUncommon is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

"No other place where what I say is being taught by anyone else"? You mean outside of the Bible, right?
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  #19  
Old 05-12-2013, 09:18 AM
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Livelystone Livelystone is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

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Originally Posted by LifeUncommon View Post
"No other place where what I say is being taught by anyone else"? You mean outside of the Bible, right?
Correct......... but even then it is as Paul said they speak in a mystery and Solomon spoke of how God has hidden the truths but "kings" seek them out
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2013, 02:50 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Holiness vs. Legalism

So God's truth is not being taught anywhere except by you, Doug, in your book?

Do I understand you correctly?
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