Another few questions - What is Jesus doing here? Is he learning from the doctors or are the doctors learning from Him? Is he asking questions to challenge them or getting clarification? Was He being made a quick study or did He already know the answers?
"And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions." Luke 2:46
Another few questions - What is Jesus doing here? Is he learning from the doctors or are the doctors learning from Him? Is he asking questions to challenge them or getting clarification? Was He being made a quick study or did He already know the answers?
"And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions." Luke 2:46
It just says he was discussing with them. It doesn't specify that he was "debating" them, but considering the nature of rabbinic Torah study, I imagine it would have gone like this:
Jesus: The scripture says thus and so. What does this mean, how do we obey this?
Lawyer: Well, Rabbi ABC interprets it thus, Rabbi XYZ says such and such, and we have concluded that it should be understood as this and that.
Jesus: But what about this other scripture? Does it not say so and so? And is it not reasonable to conclude Rabbi ABC is in error, and perhaps Rabbi XYZ also, because the prophet said this, that, and the other?
Lawyer: My boy, you ask a lot of questions, and you certainly seem familiar with the scripture, but listen here, you need to trust us on this, and...
Jesus: But are we to live by the words that proceed from God's mouth? Or the words that proceed from men's mouths?
It just says he was discussing with them. It doesn't specify that he was "debating" them, but considering the nature of rabbinic Torah study, I imagine it would have gone like this:
Jesus: The scripture says thus and so. What does this mean, how do we obey this?
Lawyer: Well, Rabbi ABC interprets it thus, Rabbi XYZ says such and such, and we have concluded that it should be understood as this and that.
Jesus: But what about this other scripture? Does it not say so and so? And is it not reasonable to conclude Rabbi ABC is in error, and perhaps Rabbi XYZ also, because the prophet said this, that, and the other?
Lawyer: My boy, you ask a lot of questions, and you certainly seem familiar with the scripture, but listen here, you need to trust us on this, and...
Jesus: But are we to live by the words that proceed from God's mouth? Or the words that proceed from men's mouths?
LOL!
And then they spit on the ground, after making their points, like on Fiddler on the Roof.
This thread has me wondering something, though perhaps it's best suited to it's own thread.
Does anyone think that the will of God was delayed, when Mary told Jesus to leave the temple and come back home with them? Or was it God's will all along for Jesus to start his ministry at an older age?
Could the life of Jesus have been far different, had Mary allowed Him to continue the work of God at that time? I know it still would have required His sacrificial death, but I'm curious now how the events of His life would have unfolded differently (assuming they even would have).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
This thread has me wondering something, though perhaps it's best suited to it's own thread.
Does anyone think that the will of God was delayed, when Mary told Jesus to leave the temple and come back home with them? Or was it God's will all along for Jesus to start his ministry at an older age?
Could the life of Jesus have been far different, had Mary allowed Him to continue the work of God at that time? I know it still would have required His sacrificial death, but I'm curious now how the events of His life would have unfolded differently (assuming they even would have).
IMO, God is very precise and everything that happened and is going to happen is in His perfect timing. Think about the time he had to listen and ask questions in the Temple. It was about time to go home after that.
IMO, God is very precise and everything that happened and is going to happen is in His perfect timing. Think about the time he had to listen and ask questions in the Temple. It was about time to go home after that.
Most likely you're right, it was just a random thought that I felt was interesting enough to explore a little. It does offer some interesting possibilities for theorizing (speculating?), though.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
Fascinating thread PO. So many things about the deity of Jesus and his humanity do bring up all kinds of questions.
I would think of it this way. All the capacity and fullness of knowledge and wisdom was present in Jesus at birth. However, the ability to use that wisdom would have to grow with him as a child. Obviously as a baby he would have to learn to talk, crawl, and walk just as all other children. As his human abilities grew, his knowledge and wisdom would be made manifest with him as he grew, and thus at the age of 12, the age of understanding, then the complete knowledge and fullness of who He was, and what He had come to do was able to begin to fully exercise itself.
It is an amazing thought to think of Mary holding Jesus as a baby, feeding him, caring for him, loving him, and yet knowing that in Him dwelt all the knowledge and capacity of God himself.
Fascinating thread PO. So many things about the deity of Jesus and his humanity do bring up all kinds of questions.
I would think of it this way. All the capacity and fullness of knowledge and wisdom was present in Jesus at birth. However, the ability to use that wisdom would have to grow with him as a child. Obviously as a baby he would have to learn to talk, crawl, and walk just as all other children. As his human abilities grew, his knowledge and wisdom would be made manifest with him as he grew, and thus at the age of 12, the age of understanding, then the complete knowledge and fullness of who He was, and what He had come to do was able to begin to fully exercise itself.
It is an amazing thought to think of Mary holding Jesus as a baby, feeding him, caring for him, loving him, and yet knowing that in Him dwelt all the knowledge and capacity of God himself.
I agree that he went through the normal growth from a baby to a man. As Esaias quoted from Isaiah - "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
(Isaiah 11:1-3 KJV)
He was excellent. Anything he would come to know, at any age, he would excel above measure. Having that wisdom, understanding, knowledge AND power present with Him is why people came from all around to hear Him.
So, I was sharing all of these thoughts with someone and they stated that it looked like we were separating God and Jesus into two separate factions. I don't view it that way, but can understand how someone might perceive the conversation that way.
I always keep Isaiah 9:6 and John 1 in mind when reading anything about Jesus Christ in the Bible.
And I want to also keep Bro. Blume's excellent scripture reference in mind as well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
He leaned on the Father like all of us have to lean on Him. But He did it purely and wholly. We would be able to do all the wonders He did, except die for another's sins, if we truly learned to live like He did.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
We could get into the imagery here of what "eateth" entails. I believe it would first portray the visual of determining if this is something you want to chew on - IOW - becoming a salvational issue - accepting the Gospel.
Thayer's defines "eateth" as: "1) to gnaw, crunch,... through the idea of corrosion or wear,"
His intellect came from his DNA. That is made perfect by his father.
His knowledge had to come by learning.
His wisdom, came from God. As has already been pointed out wisdom comes from God.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
His intellect came from his DNA. That is made perfect by his father.
His knowledge had to come by learning.
His wisdom, came from God. As has already been pointed out wisdom comes from God.
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