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  #81  
Old 09-29-2011, 06:20 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by LUKE2447 View Post
One can only laugh when you use Historical Christianity as a argument.
My point is that IF the Apostolic message is a revival of pure doctrinal truth, why marginalize the message? Why not present the message in a reformative way instead of a condemnatory way?
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  #82  
Old 09-29-2011, 06:20 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Holy Ghost filled, One God, Jesus name preachers are taking our glory and show casing it for the world in charismatic circles, but are not quite forthcoming about our roots. Maybe it's working now, but what about the next generation?

I'm not saying to not fellowship with other HG filled people, not at all.

Maybe I'm deceived that thinking the Oneness of God and Jesus name baptism are precious truths that I think should be freely preached despite whether its popular or not. despite whether TBN will give you a spot or not.
The Oneness of God and baptism into Jesus name are indeed great treasures. I agree with you having seen it just recently. A Oneness Pastor who did not make an issue out of Oneness is losing his kids to Trinity Churches. He is wondering why. Well its because they were left with the impression that fellowship with Trins was more important than standing firm for the truth.

And Im not a hater of Trins. I was one.
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  #83  
Old 09-29-2011, 06:22 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
My point is that IF the Apostolic message is a revival of pure doctrinal truth, why marginalize the message? Why not present the message in a reformative way instead of a condemnatory way?
I always have presented it that way. The point is not to go out and try to make enemies. Whenever people dont see it they get offended. Thats the way it usually goes.
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  #84  
Old 09-29-2011, 06:28 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Deacon Blues

The Bible does not declare anywhere that you must have a perfect understanding of the Godhead to be saved. "Except you believe that I am He" in context is Jesus telling the Pharisees that unless they believed He was their Messiah, they would die in their sins. Jesus then says, "...He who sent me is true..." And the next verse says "They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father." To interpret thast to mean that unless you have a "Oneness" understanding of God, you are lost is unbiblical teaching.
It is not unbiblical teaching. The context shows Jesus meant he was the Father.

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  #85  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:31 AM
Orthodoxy Orthodoxy is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
I have NO Trinity Brothers and Sisters in Christ. There are NO Trinitarians in Christ.
“We must have fellowship with anyone and everyone who is in fellowship with God through faith in Jesus Christ. If we refuse to have fellowship with them, then our actions deny the gospel. We are making a distinction that God himself does not make. We are adding some qualification to the only thing God requires, which is faith in Jesus Christ. - Philip Graham Ryken, Galatians

"Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” - Ephesians 4:3-6
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  #86  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:44 AM
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deltaguitar deltaguitar is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
technically., it's not. They might believe it, but it's not

As has been said by Trinitarians "in the name of Jesus" refers to authority. Jesus is the name of the person where we get that authority.

It's like my first pastor used to say, if he signed his check "son", it would not get cashed even though he is a son. That's not the authority of the person.
In your opinion it might not be but to these guys, who really are pretty intellectual guys don't just do things without thinking about it. I am pretty sure that in an area this diverse there are many if not hundreds of former Oneness Christians going to this church.

Here is an excerpt from the baptism classs manual that you might find interesting.

BAPTISM SERVICES:
1. We have regular (currently quarterly) celebration services in which the church celebrates baptisms
together. We encourage those wishing to be baptized to do so within the context of these gatherings.12
2. Participants are asked to personally share their testimonies if possible or to have the person baptizing them
to share for them.13
3. After the testimony, the person performing the baptism will ask, “Do you confess and believe Jesus Christ
as Lord and Savior?” to which the baptizee will respond, “Yes” or “I do.”

4. The baptizer will then immerse and subsequently raise the baptizee out of the water while saying, “I baptize
you, my (brother or sister) in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” 14 [Some will choose to

also say, “Buried with Christ in baptism, raised to walk in newness of life” which is taken from Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the
dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.]

There is a footnote at the bottom of the page that says, "14 Following the formula of Matthew 28:19, we baptize using the Trinitarian confession. In Acts, the apostles typically baptized “in the name of Jesus Christ,” but this should not be viewed as differing in meaning from Matthew’s prescription. The context of Acts is concerned with testify-ing to the resurrection of Christ, and thus He is distinguished among the persons of the Trinity, but all that is true of the character (“name” often represents character in the Scriptures) of Christ is true of the Father and Spirit, as well.
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  #87  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:45 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by Orthodoxy View Post
“We must have fellowship with anyone and everyone who is in fellowship with God through faith in Jesus Christ. If we refuse to have fellowship with them, then our actions deny the gospel. We are making a distinction that God himself does not make. We are adding some qualification to the only thing God requires, which is faith in Jesus Christ. - Philip Graham Ryken, Galatians

"Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” - Ephesians 4:3-6
Who is Phillip Ryken and why should I care what he says? Paul said 'let them be accursed.'
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  #88  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:49 AM
Orthodoxy Orthodoxy is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Who is Phillip Ryken and why should I care what he says? Paul said 'let them be accursed.'
Who is Steve Epley and why should I care what he says?
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  #89  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:57 AM
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deltaguitar deltaguitar is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

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Originally Posted by UnTraditional View Post
I backslid into Reformed trinitarian theology for a while, and let me tewll you, what they say and what they believe are two different stories. According to them, God is not a person, but is a nature shared by three persons. In this context, you have three gods, not three persons making up one God. How? If you have three persons with a human nature, you have three humans. If you have three persons with a God nature, you have three gods. And this is true. I am not just using talking points someone else made up, but is from their own words and studies. So, your point here friend is mute, because I have studied and I know what they believe and why it is unbiblical.
This is simply not true. The idea of the persons of God in the trinity is only used to explain a God and a concept of God that is very difficult. Many trinitarian teachers will admit that the use of the words "person" are not the best and may be unhelpful in understanding the trinity.

The word person is used to convey that there is an ability to relate and have roles within the God head. I am not an expert on trinitarian theology or any theology for that matter but we have to be intellectually honest or we will always be in the dark.

Most of us on these forums are amateurs. I don't see a lot of folks with doctorates on here. Half of our misunderstandings are because we assume what other people believe. I get called out all the time for broad brushing Oneness pentecostals.
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  #90  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:17 AM
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deltaguitar deltaguitar is offline
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Re: Our Trinitarian Brothers and Sisters in Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Holy Ghost filled, One God, Jesus name preachers are taking our glory and show casing it for the world in charismatic circles, but are not quite forthcoming about our roots. Maybe it's working now, but what about the next generation?

I'm not saying to not fellowship with other HG filled people, not at all.

Maybe I'm deceived that thinking the Oneness of God and Jesus name baptism are precious truths that I think should be freely preached despite whether its popular or not. despite whether TBN will give you a spot or not.
Amanah, I think we should all be transparant about our beliefs. The Oneness/Trinitrain rift is huge and part of being a submissive christian is to be able to allow debate or discussions with the willingness to be corrected if it is shown that our doctrine is wrong.

Oneness pentecostals are not just wrong on the Godhead but they then more error over to the new birth, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and other areas like standards, etc. Many trinitarians will just point at the fruit of the movement and their case is made that Oneness doctrine leads to even more dangerous doctrine and possibly away from the gospel.

Lets not forget that AOG, COG, and charismatics are all accepted within the christian world because they still hold strong to major christian doctrines. Much of the world believes in the gifts of the spirit, however, there has been both good and bad that has come out of the pentecostal movement. The verdict is still out on the pentecostalm movement as a whole and history hasn't decided if the movement has had any value.

I can gladly fellowship with pentecostals as long as they aren't trying to convert everyone to their way of thinking. It is just better for me to stay away and work in a church where I feel comfortable and altar call and crazy stuff isn't happening.

I do not believe that Oneness folks have truth however I do not believe they are unsaved. There are many sincere oneness folks who are christians and many one this forum who I would count as brothers.
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