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04-28-2021, 04:00 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,154
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus
I have faith that the same church fathers who learned from the apostles themselves, and who compiled the scriptures we have today, reached a consensus as to the practices that the whole church should participate in.
But strictly speaking, to answer your question, I doubt that Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves, would have prayed to Mary (because she wasn't dead) or prayed to dead saints (because they weren't dead yet). There is some evidence of icons in ancient Judaism, so I can't answer that except to say maybe.
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But none of those things are in the written word. IN fact, the bible speaks as though it is futile to pray to saints when it asks this question...
Job 5:1.. Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
All are equally dependent on God, and are not worthy to receive prayer.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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04-29-2021, 06:58 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Central Texas
Posts: 2,796
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
But none of those things are in the written word. IN fact, the bible speaks as though it is futile to pray to saints when it asks this question...
Job 5:1.. Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
All are equally dependent on God, and are not worthy to receive prayer.
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Two things here: Church Tradition and definition of "prayer". Don't really have time to get into either as I'm sure you are convinced, but so was I
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04-29-2021, 01:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 793
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
You. Do you know what unitarianism means, because it's evident that you don't know what catholic means? Now, please answer the question I posed in the post you're responding to.
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Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.
Last edited by 1 God; 04-29-2021 at 01:20 PM.
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04-29-2021, 02:37 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,073
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 God
Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.
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Shane, the Apostles taught no such thing. They plainly saw the fullness of the Godhead alreay residing in him bodily on the mount of tranfiguration.
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04-29-2021, 03:56 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,025
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus
I have faith that the same church fathers who learned from the apostles themselves, and who compiled the scriptures we have today, reached a consensus as to the practices that the whole church should participate in.
But strictly speaking, to answer your question, I doubt that Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves, would have prayed to Mary (because she wasn't dead) or prayed to dead saints (because they weren't dead yet). There is some evidence of icons in ancient Judaism, so I can't answer that except to say maybe.
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I was going to ask another question but I see you already stated you don't have time for it.
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04-29-2021, 04:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Central Texas
Posts: 2,796
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
I was going to ask another question but I see you already stated you don't have time for it.
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We all know both sides of the discussion, what's the point? Lol
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04-29-2021, 09:15 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,025
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus
We all know both sides of the discussion, what's the point? Lol
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I'm not interested in debating EO faith and practice. I was just asking for the reasoning, what your thoughts on the subject were, just for my own understanding.
At least you didn't go Novus Ordo lol.
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04-30-2021, 06:58 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,025
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
Shane, the Apostles taught no such thing. They plainly saw the fullness of the Godhead alreay residing in him bodily on the mount of tranfiguration.
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?
They saw resurrection glory (which is one of the reasons why Moses and Elijah were present as well).
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04-30-2021, 09:13 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montana, or the North somewhere.
Posts: 69
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus
Actually, that is the Eastern Orthodox creed (of which I am now a member) - the Catholics added the Filioque later on.
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My friend, it has been years since we corresponded.
What happened that you would go that direction? The last we spoke you were either in south america or UAE teaching ESL classes. What in the world happened?
PM if you want to.
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04-30-2021, 10:12 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,154
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Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus
Two things here: Church Tradition and definition of "prayer". Don't really have time to get into either as I'm sure you are convinced, but so was I
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When people refer to tradition, they think that Jesus words about Spirit guiding us into all truth as well as that we would believe on him through his disciples' words, are referring to Generations after the apostles, as though there's some kind of succession they inherited it. But Jesus was strictly talking about those 12. The foundation-layers were those 12, which is why the apostles' names are on the foundation of the New Jerusalem and there's not more than 12 of them. Paul said that he was faithful to give the full counsel of God. So, doctrines like the Trinity and everything else that, for example, you would believe in, that aren't in the Bible, just aren't from God.
I know you don't want to debate because it's assumed everybody knows both sides. But I'm just thinking you may not have heard that response before.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Last edited by mfblume; 04-30-2021 at 10:16 PM.
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