You Can Fake It All

[ILG]

It is easy to fake "salvation" as the UPC defines it.

Repentance is easy to fake. Just go to the altar and look sorrowful.

Baptism. Just do it.

Tongues? I have heard lots of fake tongues in my life. Just sound like everybody else.

What many consider proof of God in your life, standards, are easy to fake, just follow the list.

Who has motive to fake salvation? All those who are being or have been pressured by wives, mothers, husbands, fathers, kids and friends to "get saved".

In a culture that greatly pressures people to get "saved" or go to hell and constantly measures who is "in" and who is "out", there is great pressure on people to "get saved" to get people off their back. They might not even know they are faking because they don't even know what the real experience is. Since this formula is so traditional and passed down from generation to generation to "be saved" there are likely a great many in the UPC and other apostolic churches that don't have a clue what true salvation is, they are just following the formula. The same thing is true in all churches but many other churches don't constantly measure who is "in" and who is "out".

The UPC taught me they were different. But they are not. Some in the UPC have faith and some do not. There is no formula for salvation to prove to another you are saved, no way to say "You are in and you are out".

[KeptByTheWord]

This is because fruit of the spirit, essentially love, is usually not taught and used as a way to demonstrate the life in Christ. Instead, works are more often looked to, as a way to measure or gauge someone's spirituality. How much have they given in tithes? How faithful are they to the church? How much to they give to all the various and sundry church fundraisers? How closely do they attain to the church's dress standards? These just name a few of the ways that are used to measure how "saved" someone is, but it is wrong to do so.

Instead, my favorite verse, and of all is from the mouth of Jesus himself. It answers the question posed in this post .... He said in John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if ye have love one to another."

Essentially.... our love for Christ, and for love one another is what determines our salvation, and is what shows others around us that we are indeed disciples of Christ.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

This is because fruit of the spirit, essentially love, is usually not taught and used as a way to demonstrate the life in Christ. Instead, works are more often looked to, as a way to measure or gauge someone's spirituality. How much have they given in tithes? How faithful are they to the church? How much to they give to all the various and sundry church fundraisers? How closely do they attain to the church's dress standards? These just name a few of the ways that are used to measure how "saved" someone is, but it is wrong to do so.

Instead, my favorite verse, and of all is from the mouth of Jesus himself. It answers the question posed in this post .... He said in John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if ye have love one to another."

Essentially.... our love for Christ, and for love one another is what determines our salvation, and is what shows others around us that we are indeed disciples of Christ.

Yes, love is key. However, there are many who know how to schmooze and have good human relations skills that they can turn on and off when it suits their purpose. Abusive leaders do this, which is why they can get so many followers. They can look and appear loving but what they do is for their own purposes. So, love is key but can also be faked especially when they also follow all the rules and look very good on the outside.

[n david]

Seriously?

*smh

[ILG]

Originally Posted by n david

Seriously?

*smh

Dead serious.

[Monterrey]

Great thread, was just speaking with a new saint yesterday about this very thing.

Without the fruits of the Spirit, the results of the Spirit, all is in doubt.

Someone can say that they are a peach tree, yet until those fruits come on and are seen then it could be any manner of tree.

Recently my dad bought what was sold as an nut tree. He planted it and waited for the fruit.

What came out was a unwanted peach tree, the tree was said to be one thing but the fruits finally declared it to be something else.

How many so called Christians have faked it for years? They have learned the songs, danced the dance, talked the talk, advertised themselves as something Christian!

Yet when the fruits come out there is not the evidence of Christianity. This is the one thing that cannot be faked. You have to constantly yield to the Spirit of God to produce the Fruits of God.

Great thread, glad it was started.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

Dead serious.

Dumb thread. More bash the UPC junk.

You can take your main point and use it for any denomination. But instead, you felt the need to single out the UPC.

You can fake it as a Catholic, Lutheran, Mormon, COGIC, Baptist, "Charismatic," Independent, whatever.

You don't like the UPC, okay, I get it. Just use some intellectual honesty in a thread like this and admit that ANYONE in ANY denomination can fake it. This isn't something limited to the UPC.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by n david

Dumb thread. More bash the UPC junk.

You can take your main point and use it for any denomination. But instead, you felt the need to single out the UPC.

You can fake it as a Catholic, Lutheran, Mormon, COGIC, Baptist, "Charismatic," Independent, whatever.

You don't like the UPC, okay, I get it. Just use some intellectual honesty in a thread like this and admit that ANYONE in ANY denomination can fake it. This isn't something limited to the UPC.

Say anything truthful about the UPC that isn't positive and get a response like yours. Because many in the UPC can't take the slightest bit of criticism, constructive or not.

The difference between the UPC and these other churches is that they aren't constantly measuring who is in and who is out. You can measure who is in the church but you can't measure who is in the Kingdom of God.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Great thread, was just speaking with a new saint yesterday about this very thing.

Without the fruits of the Spirit, the results of the Spirit, all is in doubt.

Someone can say that they are a peach tree, yet until those fruits come on and are seen then it could be any manner of tree.

Recently my dad bought what was sold as an nut tree. He planted it and waited for the fruit.

What came out was a unwanted peach tree, the tree was said to be one thing but the fruits finally declared it to be something else.

How many so called Christians have faked it for years? They have learned the songs, danced the dance, talked the talk, advertised themselves as something Christian!

Yet when the fruits come out there is not the evidence of Christianity. This is the one thing that cannot be faked. You have to constantly yield to the Spirit of God to produce the Fruits of God.

Great thread, glad it was started.

Thanks! The fruits do eventually manifest themselves although sometimes it takes years.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

Say anything truthful about the UPC that isn't positive and get a response like yours. Because many in the UPC can't take the slightest bit of criticism, constructive or not.

But it wasn't truthful. It was dishonest. And it wasn't constructive, it was the very definition of bashing.