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  #71  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:32 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Facism is not liberal politics, Dave ... I don't kow a mainstream historical scholar that would support this.
Again do your homework. Both Germany and Russia advocated a messianic view of the state.
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  #72  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:33 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by TRFrance View Post
If Obama serves for 8 years, he may end up replacing 2-3 of the Supreme Court justices... who will almost certainly be liberals.

That by itself would leave its imprint on American society for another 30 years or more, easily.
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts what a wonderful Christmas it would be.
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  #73  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:33 AM
Jehoram Jehoram is offline
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Do you read the Wiccan bible?
Hmmm, so there are some things your mind isn't opened to?
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  #74  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:34 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by ReformedDave View Post
Again do your homework. Both Germany and Russia advocated a messianic view of the state.
Both extremes join hands at the end of the spectrum and for this reason they may appear similar in quality ... but the inherent foundations are different ...
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  #75  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:35 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
CC1, it was a close decision between staying home, and voting for McCain.

there is that voice withing the Republican party that says maybe it is better to loose this one because winning will only get us more muddy water and more liberalism in congress.

I said that Iraq is the deciding factor. that is half true. McCain will at least not put a Ginsburg on the supreme court.

Obama will do that and worse i am sure.
If we were not facing Global Islamic terrorism and an onslought of humanism I would be tempted to buy in to that thought.

However too much is at stake. I can't stand McCain but will vote for him and hope for a miracle that he wins. McCain at his worst is ten times better than the danger Obama and Hillary pose to our National Security and family values.

There will probably be at least two vacancies on the Supreme Court in the next four years and the thought of what kind of activist judges Obama or Hillary will appoint is scary.
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  #76  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:37 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Facism is not liberal politics, Dave ... I don't kow a mainstream historical scholar that would support this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave View Post
Again do your homework. Both Germany and Russia advocated a messianic view of the state.
Is it possible that both a left winger and a right winger can be Fascists? It doesnt seem to me that Fascism is exclusively the domain of either right or left.

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

Historically, there was a period where several countries and leaders openly accepted the label of "fascist" to describe their political systems, particularly in the 1930s and 1940s. However, owing to the historical record and verdict on these past fascist countries, the term has now fallen largely into disuse as an objective description. Overall, this is due to the associations between fascist regimes and racial supremacist policies, especially in Nazi Germany, although not all fascist regimes espoused racist policies.[citation needed] The term is now used more as an epithet than as a term for any existing systems. This is true even in countries where it might legitimately apply.

Some of the governments and parties most often considered to have been fascist include Fascist Italy under Mussolini, Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler, Spain's Falange, Portugal's New State, Hungary's Arrow Cross Party, Japan's Imperial Way Faction, Romania's Iron Guard, and South Africa under the National Party. Some authors reject broad usage of the term or exclude certain of these parties and regimes.[8] Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, there have been few self-proclaimed fascist groups and individuals. In contemporary political discourse, fascist has become a slur, used by adherents of some ideologies to describe their opponents....
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  #77  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:37 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
No sir ...

The Neo-nazis are ultra-conservatives ... Nazism/Fascism has its roots in conservatism gone wild.

Anything else is revisionism.
DA, you are mixing your nouns.

Facism has its roots in a form or conservitism that is quite foreign to American Politics.

Early 20th century European Conservitives believed in totalitarianism that was an extention of the Monarchical systems of Europe

this relates in no meaningful way to American Conservitives at all.
American Conserivitives draw their traditions from the founding fathers who were enlightenmenet liberals

Liberalism by definition is much more closely alligned with American Conservitives than American Liberals.

American Liberals arent even liberals (Hillary agrees by the way).
they are Progressives who are much more alligned with certain aspects of Facism and socialism than they are with the ideas of the enlightenment liberal views that are the core of True Liberalism.

So, while you are accurate in saying that Facism is more a conservitive view, you are incorrect in connecting that word "conservitive" to Modern American Politics"

American Liberals are the true conservitives.....we American Conservitives really are the true Liberals!
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  #78  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:38 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Both extremes join hands at the end of the spectrum and for this reason they may appear similar in quality ... but the inherent foundations are different ...
It is fascinating to see the interest shown by FDR and several of his cronies to the 'Italian experiment'.......
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  #79  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:38 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
If we were not facing Global Islamic terrorism and an onslought of humanism I would be tempted to buy in to that thought.

However too much is at stake. I can't stand McCain but will vote for him and hope for a miracle that he wins. McCain at his worst is ten times better than the danger Obama and Hillary pose to our National Security and family values.

There will probably be at least two vacancies on the Supreme Court in the next four years and the thought of what kind of activist judges Obama or Hillary will appoint is scary.
have to agree with you cc1, truth is spoken, now anyway, dt
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  #80  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:39 AM
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Re: President Barack Obama!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance View Post
Is it possible that both a left winger and a right winger can be Fascists? It doesnt seem to me that Fascism is exclusively the domain of either right or left?

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

Historically, there was a period where several countries and leaders openly accepted the label of "fascist" to describe their political systems, particularly in the 1930s and 1940s. However, owing to the historical record and verdict on these past fascist countries, the term has now fallen largely into disuse as an objective description. Overall, this is due to the associations between fascist regimes and racial supremacist policies, especially in Nazi Germany, although not all fascist regimes espoused racist policies.[citation needed] The term is now used more as an epithet than as a term for any existing systems. This is true even in countries where it might legitimately apply.

Some of the governments and parties most often considered to have been fascist include Fascist Italy under Mussolini, Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler, Spain's Falange, Portugal's New State, Hungary's Arrow Cross Party, Japan's Imperial Way Faction, Romania's Iron Guard, and South Africa under the National Party. Some authors reject broad usage of the term or exclude certain of these parties and regimes.[8] Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, there have been few self-proclaimed fascist groups and individuals. In contemporary political discourse, fascist has become a slur, used by adherents of some ideologies to describe their opponents....
As a slur indeed ... but the fact that it is anti-communist shows it's anti-thetical to leftist economic views ... hence my position stands
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