Our view of ourselves.

[Steve Epley]

Pride is inherent in all of us. Ego is part of our human nature and everyone desires to feel important and needed. Pride has to be constantly crucified. We can easily idenitfy pride in everyone else but is hard to find in ourselves.
It hides as spirituality-intelligence-maturity-and yes humility. But when I think any part of the Kingdom is determined by my worth and contribution and it will suffer if I am not a participant then I honestly am blinded by pride. The church birthed me how then can it depend on me to exists???? Jesus clearly said "Upon this rock I will build my church" true he may use us but he is the builder the author mind you and the finisher. Organizations-local assemblies span decades where the life cycle itself replaces folks and guess what the church goes on without them and in time they are only a memory not matter how powerful they are. The wise man said "humility before honor"
but pride goeth before destruction. I need God and the church they don't need me. I am not the wheel in the middle of the wheel He is.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Pride is inherent in all of us. Ego is part of our human nature and everyone desires to feel important and needed. Pride has to be constantly crucified. We can easily idenitfy pride in everyone else but is hard to find in ourselves.
It hides as spirituality-intelligence-maturity-and yes humility. But when I think any part of the Kingdom is determined by my worth and contribution and it will suffer if I am not a participant then I honestly am blinded by pride. The church birthed me how then can it depend on me to exists???? Jesus clearly said "Upon this rock I will build my church" true he may use us but he is the builder the author mind you and the finisher. Organizations-local assemblies span decades where the life cycle itself replaces folks and guess what the church goes on without them and in time they are only a memory not matter how powerful they are. The wise man said "humility before honor"
but pride goeth before destruction. I need God and the church they don't need me. I am not the wheel in the middle of the wheel He is.

Hence Paul's "You are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Pride is inherent in all of us. Ego is part of our human nature and everyone desires to feel important and needed. Pride has to be constantly crucified. We can easily idenitfy pride in everyone else but is hard to find in ourselves.
It hides as spirituality-intelligence-maturity-and yes humility. But when I think any part of the Kingdom is determined by my worth and contribution and it will suffer if I am not a participant then I honestly am blinded by pride. The church birthed me how then can it depend on me to exists???? Jesus clearly said "Upon this rock I will build my church" true he may use us but he is the builder the author mind you and the finisher. Organizations-local assemblies span decades where the life cycle itself replaces folks and guess what the church goes on without them and in time they are only a memory not matter how powerful they are. The wise man said "humility before honor"
but pride goeth before destruction. I need God and the church they don't need me. I am not the wheel in the middle of the wheel He is.

I think that some think that "the world revolves around them" and that attitude is off base. But I also think realistically that we have to be reminded of the fact that as a church we need each other.

One cannot say to another "I have no need of you" or even "you are not important" even as some who some think are a "pain".

A church and an organisation are two different entities. The church can survive without the org but the church cannot survive without it's members.

Jesus said "whatsoever you do to the least of these my brethern that you do unto me." We have to realize how important we are to God and knowing it doesn't automatically make you full of pride. Usually the opposite happens -- it gives you a feeling of humility and honour to know how important you really are.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Pride is inherent in all of us. Ego is part of our human nature and everyone desires to feel important and needed. Pride has to be constantly crucified. We can easily idenitfy pride in everyone else but is hard to find in ourselves.
It hides as spirituality-intelligence-maturity-and yes humility. But when I think any part of the Kingdom is determined by my worth and contribution and it will suffer if I am not a participant then I honestly am blinded by pride. The church birthed me how then can it depend on me to exists???? Jesus clearly said "Upon this rock I will build my church" true he may use us but he is the builder the author mind you and the finisher. Organizations-local assemblies span decades where the life cycle itself replaces folks and guess what the church goes on without them and in time they are only a memory not matter how powerful they are. The wise man said "humility before honor"
but pride goeth before destruction. I need God and the church they don't need me. I am not the wheel in the middle of the wheel He is.

Elder Epley,

Wonderful words.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

I think that some think that "the world revolves around them" and that attitude is off base. But I also think realistically that we have to be reminded of the fact that as a church we need each other.

One cannot say to another "I have no need of you" or even "you are not important" even as some who some think are a "pain".

A church and an organisation are two different entities. The church can survive without the org but the church cannot survive without it's members.

Jesus said "whatsoever you do to the least of these my brethern that you do unto me." We have to realize how important we are to God and knowing it doesn't automatically make you full of pride. Usually the opposite happens -- it gives you a feeling of humility and honour to know how important you really are.

I certainly agree NO organization is the church and also agree it cannot exist without it's members. But a group that has existed since 1945 and it's roots since the early 20's will not fall because a few men on either end of the spectrum leaves. I think some of my own brethren thought that would happen when they left in 1968. Their names were household names in Pentecost at the time but guess what most of the UPC has never heard of them. In the late 70's the super Texas guys and friends thought they would shake the foundations again household names but they are only a memory.
Then after the AS notable men left and it time the same will be said of them.
My point our feelings of our self importance is inflated life goes on. On our tombstone will be a dash between birth and death and the world as we know it will not end. I am not a UPC fan as all on this forum knows but the arrogance of thinking our small group could cripple an organization as large as it is pure folly. If I live my life as if I am the cog-the shot-the wheel in the middle of a wheel then myself and those I influence will be disappointed and feel as if I have failed. The rise and fall of the nation or the work of God is NOT depended on someone as replacable as myself. Sometimes I don't believe that because I am so important and spiritual and fervent but gratefully it is so. Paul said I plant-Apollos waters but GOD and Him alone gives the increase. "Without Him I can do many things but they don't amount to anything."

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I certainly agree NO organization is the church and also agree it cannot exist without it's members. But a group that has existed since 1945 and it's roots since the early 20's will not fall because a few men on either end of the spectrum leaves. I think some of my own brethren thought that would happen when they left in 1968. Their names were household names in Pentecost at the time but guess what most of the UPC has never heard of them. In the late 70's the super Texas guys and friends thought they would shake the foundations again household names but they are only a memory.
Then after the AS notable men left and it time the same will be said of them.
My point our feelings of our self importance is inflated life goes on. On our tombstone will be a dash between birth and death and the world as we know it will not end. I am not a UPC fan as all on this forum knows but the arrogance of thinking our small group could cripple an organization as large as it is pure folly. If I live my life as if I am the cog-the shot-the wheel in the middle of a wheel then myself and those I influence will be disappointed and feel as if I have failed. The rise and fall of the nation or the work of God is NOT depended on someone as replacable as myself. Sometimes I don't believe that because I am so important and spiritual and fervent but gratefully it is so. Paul said I plant-Apollos waters but GOD and Him alone gives the increase. "Without Him I can do many things but they don't amount to anything."

Brother Epley.. this is one of the best threads I have ever read..

You are right on...

I think in the grand scheme of things it will come down to the one last repented and Holy Ghost filled soul then the trump will sound and big, little, small, noticeable, unnoticeable, known, unknown will all rise to meet him in the sky... It doesn't matter "who's" church the only thing that will count will be if we are in "HIS CHURCH"...