Doctrinal Affirmation Statement

MissBrattified · #1 02-25-2009, 04:42 PM

This sort of relates to the "contract" thread, but I want direct feedback, so I'm putting it in a new one....

We have a homeless shelter/mission in downtown Tulsa, and I would like to volunteer, along with Hannah, and possibly Sarah. (Depending on their age requirements.)

However, all volunteers are required to sign a doctrinal statement.

Here is the statement, in full:

*We believe the Bible to be the inspired, infallible, ultimately authoritative Word of God.

*We believe there is one God, eternally existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

*We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is deity; that He was born of a virgin, that we are redeemed by His atoning death through His shed blood, that He bodily resurrected and ascended into Heaven, and that He will come again in power and great glory.

*We believe that men are saved through a direct, personal encounter with the risen Lord, at which time they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. This event we hold to be an experience, rather than a doctrinal supposition.

*We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit, by whom Christ indwells each believer enabling him to live a godly life of obedience as he reaches for maturity.

*We believe the Holy Spirit unites all true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ and that together they form one body, the church.

Okay. So...the lines I have trouble with are "one God, eternally existing as...", and I'm not sure about "...an experience, rather than a doctrinal supposition."

Should I not worry about it, and sign it, chalking it all up to semantics? Or do I recognize that their understanding is not the same as mine, and find another place to volunteer?

P.S. Margie--this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

scotty · #2 02-25-2009, 04:46 PM

I wouldn't have a problem with this.

MissBrattified · #3 02-25-2009, 04:48 PM

Should I email the director and ask him about those lines? Ask him to make an exception, or explain my understanding and see if he's okay with it?

I really didn't expect a group that is available to help the homeless to be so picky about their volunteers. LOL!!!!!

MissBrattified · #4 02-25-2009, 04:49 PM

I guess I'm not sure whether I should just sign it and let them worry about the semantics, voice my possible disagreements and hope they let me volunteer anyway, or just go elsewhere.

But I don't believe that Jesus eternally existed, at least, not the human flesh, the son of God.

Do they really believe that? That the body of Christ eternally existed?????

Margies3 · #5 02-25-2009, 04:51 PM

do you disagree that we believe in one God eternally existing as........... ?

If it said eternally CO-existing as, then I would have a big problem with it. But the way this is stated I can't see a problem.

Now as to whether or not to sign this, you will probably be surprised at my answer. But my advice for you would be to go to the leader/leaders of this group and tell them what church you belong to and what you believe. I say this because my experience is that if they would require you to sign a statement like this, then maybe they just might belong to that group of trinitarians who would be terribly uncomfortable working or fellowshiping with One God Apostolic folks. I still say tho, that the vast majority of trinity people I have experience with have much less of a problem fellowshiping and/or working beside Apostolic people than the other way around.

But that's just my observation in my life. It may be different in your corner of the world.

scotty · #6 02-25-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I guess I'm not sure whether I should just sign it and let them worry about the semantics, voice my possible disagreements and hope they let me volunteer anyway, or just go elsewhere.

But I don't believe that Jesus eternally existed, at least, not the human flesh, the son of God.

Do they really believe that? That the body of Christ eternally existed?????

I'm like Margie here, Im not seeing this. I do believe it is semantic. Look at the next line..

*We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is deity; that He was born of a virgin,

Jesus in flesh can not be eternal if he was "born" of a virgin. Think you may be reading the "son" part in the first line too literally .

But as Margie said, I would just ask them.

deltaguitar · #7 02-25-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This sort of relates to the "contract" thread, but I want direct feedback, so I'm putting it in a new one....

We have a homeless shelter/mission in downtown Tulsa, and I would like to volunteer, along with Hannah, and possibly Sarah. (Depending on their age requirements.)

However, all volunteers are required to sign a doctrinal statement.

Here is the statement, in full:

*We believe the Bible to be the inspired, infallible, ultimately authoritative Word of God.

*We believe there is one God, eternally existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

*We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is deity; that He was born of a virgin, that we are redeemed by His atoning death through His shed blood, that He bodily resurrected and ascended into Heaven, and that He will come again in power and great glory.

*We believe that men are saved through a direct, personal encounter with the risen Lord, at which time they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. This event we hold to be an experience, rather than a doctrinal supposition.

*We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit, by whom Christ indwells each believer enabling him to live a godly life of obedience as he reaches for maturity.

*We believe the Holy Spirit unites all true believers in the Lord Jesus Christ and that together they form one body, the church.

Okay. So...the lines I have trouble with are "one God, eternally existing as...", and I'm not sure about "...an experience, rather than a doctrinal supposition."

Should I not worry about it, and sign it, chalking it all up to semantics? Or do I recognize that their understanding is not the same as mine, and find another place to volunteer?

P.S. Margie--this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Ok you are proving that you are headed down the slippery slope. First you use common sense when teaching your children about standards and now you are going to help the homeless and associating with trinitarians.

Next thing we know you will be leaving the doctrine and your heritage.

I really don't have much problem with the statement as a whole. The trinitarian part I would chalk up to semantics with but the line, "We believe that men are saved through a direct, personal encounter with the risen Lord, at which time they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit" goes directly against three-step doctrine. To say that we are born again (regenerated) by God and not Acts 2:38 is a serious doctrinal difference.

Elizabeth · #8 02-25-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

We believe there is one God, eternally existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

You don't believe this?

It is not using the word person(s) and like Margie said co-exist.

I always thought oneness people believed in three manifestations of one God-would not those manifestations be: Father (in creation) Son (in redemption) Holy spirit (indwelling of his spirit).

I personally do not have a problem with it.

scotty · #9 02-25-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Ok you are proving that you are headed down the slippery slope. First you use common sense when teaching your children about standards and now you are going to help the homeless and associating with trinitarians.

Next thing we know you will be leaving the doctrine and your heritage.

I really don't have much problem with the statement as a whole. The trinitarian part I would chalk up to semantics with but the line, "We believe that men are saved through a direct, personal encounter with the risen Lord, at which time they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit" goes directly against three-step doctrine. To say that we are born again (regenerated) by God and not Acts 2:38 is a serious doctrinal difference.

LOL !~!!, wheres that TIC smilie...

Margies3 · #10 02-25-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I guess I'm not sure whether I should just sign it and let them worry about the semantics, voice my possible disagreements and hope they let me volunteer anyway, or just go elsewhere.

But I don't believe that Jesus eternally existed, at least, not the human flesh, the son of God.

Do they really believe that? That the body of Christ eternally existed?????

sorry. I posted before I saw this. I think we were posting at the same time

I see what you are saying.

I have a question for you tho. When Jesus rose from the dead, his body was no longer in that grave. And they saw Him walking on the road to Emmaus. Jesus even told Thomas to touch the wounds in his side. And then when He left this world, where did His body go? I don't honestly know whether the body of Jesus eternally exists. But for me, that's not a point worth making a big deal out of. If it is for you, then maybe there is another place you could do similiar volunteer work