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  #21  
Old 09-25-2021, 12:16 AM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

Did anyone read Bartleman's entire quote, or did a bunch of you just see the word "giving" and decide to go on a diatribe, not even realizing the dude didn't say a word about money or tithing? Talk about tilting at windmills...

Read it again:

JUST WHAT IS A REAL CHRISTIAN?
God wants only volunteer giving. We do not have to give. Giving la a privilege not of compulsion. We are the losers or gainers for eternity. There is a great recompense of reward. All we keep we lose. All give to God we keep. Nothing goes beyond the grave but the good we have done. This then should be the passion of our lives to live for others. An unselfish life is the only one that pays. All that is spent On self is lost. It perishes with the using. Souls are the only thing of real value. The only thing worthwhile is the opportunity of doing good today. Tomorrow even that is gone. In Eternity’s light we will despise the selfishness that caused us to miss it. Let us seek to help others toward heaven today. The man who lives not in the fight of eternity lives not at all. We can go to heaven a pauper and beggar if we will. Rewards are for sacrifice only not for selfish living. If we believe a hand shake, a kind word, or a needed gift may make the difference of heaven or hell for eternity for a soul how dare we withhold it? It will help them toward heaven Oh the poverty of a life lived for self! The only thing of value in the fight of eternity is the good deed done. Things withheld are lost forever But the future life is far too problematic with us. We believe only in the present material one that we can see Our five senses are our heaven.

Only those who like their Master are living wholly for God and others are real Christian. Like Jesus they are seeing how much they can give. He put His life into it. Only those who sacrifice will have reward. Seeking selfish blessings brings no reward. To follow Christ is not to see how much we can give without thought of getting. Such unselfish living gets the most. Let us give of our influence. We will receive fullness of joy for using our influence for souls. This a wonderful privilege and responsibility in living.

All the energy of the human race to live without God has been lost in all time spent in vain only to gain death and hell. A million dollars if secured could not add one hair’s weight to the life or joy of the soul. It could only feed and satisfy the animal man like the home or cow to perish with the using. Someone has said “God judges of what we give now by how much we give but rather by how much we keep for ourselves” Instance the “widow’s mite”. The rich young ruler went away sorrowful for he was very rich”. We are living our fives now. Let us do good today now before the opportunity is gone. If we really “seek first the Kingdom of God”. He will not fail us.

We shall receive reward for good or evil at compound interest. And who is able to compute it. It can be reckoned only at the final judgment. How careful we should be not to miss the opportunity for doing good. The fives we Influence today for right or wrong will touch other lives tomorrow with an influence that we can never recall. It Is like the waves of radio passing out into the other. Only its waves go on Into the lives of millions we cannot avoid it. Every life has this influence, this responsibility, and account to give this reward for good or evil which it cannot escape whether it wishes it or not. It is the price tor living of existence— Frank Bartleman (1929)
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2021, 12:20 AM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Each man according to his ability. Each man according to his need.
What concord hath Marx with Christ?
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2021, 09:19 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

The quote doesn’t say anything about tithing, I knew that. My first response to the quote was basically “I have never seen a preacher preach about giving with a lot of persuasion and all of that that is not about giving to themselves”.

I have heard many preachings like that, saying “All it matters in your life is how much you gave”, which is commendable, and good, however, when you look at the intentions of the speakers, they are saying all those wonderful words to persuade to give abundantly to “ministry” which comes down to them.

Jesus taught like that as well, but it was mainly about giving as an act of mercy and hospitality for your brethren.

It reminds me the Pharisees: so good at giving to ministry with their tithing, so bad at giving to the brethren in need
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2021, 06:23 PM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Did anyone read Bartleman's entire quote, or did a bunch of you just see the word "giving" and decide to go on a diatribe, not even realizing the dude didn't say a word about money or tithing? Talk about tilting at windmills...
Where was it posted?
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2021, 08:01 PM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Where was it posted?
In the Harry Morse thread
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2021, 08:22 AM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
Just as a reminder, this passage is concerning helping the poor saints of Jerusalem. It was not for the “ministry” only. Helping the poor has much greater New Testament scriptural support than giving to pastors does. After all, aren’t we all supposed to be in the ministry?

There are entire conferences held that are exclusively for the ministry. There is no greater division in the church than the one between the pulpit and the pew.

1Cor.3

[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

1Cor.1

[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Paul discouraged any division in the church. He was of the opinion that different saints had different gifts. Some gifts were more desirable than others but the people that had the gifts were not exalted above others. Doing so was a sign of carnality.
Amen
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2021, 08:42 AM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

Tithesmeister,

I understand there are some pastors that make tithing an heaven and hell issue. Yet, I believe a high majority in the church want to give, they're not forced at all. I firmly believe the last thing on their mind when they put that check in the envelope is, "whew, I'm not going to hell!" Saints love to give, not just money, but their time.

I guarantee some of the pastors you have mentioned in threads of the past, if the pastors stood up and denounced everything they said about "tithe or the burning flame." The people will still give, not out of fear, or because they have been "brainwashed", but because they love to give and support the church. Weather that be, the leadership, the building, the programs, etc..
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2021, 08:56 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
Tithesmeister,

I understand there are some pastors that make tithing an heaven and hell issue. Yet, I believe a high majority in the church want to give, they're not forced at all. I firmly believe the last thing on their mind when they put that check in the envelope is, "whew, I'm not going to hell!" Saints love to give, not just money, but their time.

I guarantee some of the pastors you have mentioned in threads of the past, if the pastors stood up and denounced everything they said about "tithe or the burning flame." The people will still give, not out of fear, or because they have been "brainwashed", but because they love to give and support the church. Weather that be, the leadership, the building, the programs, etc..
Members are not forced to tithe, they are coerced to tithe. Tithe is a requirement to participate in ministry. Let's be honest please.

Also, they are threatened, directly, or indirectly, by the quoting of Mal 3:8-9. They are told, openly, or indirectly by reading that reference, that they are robbing God, and will be cursed with a cursed. Let's be honest, please.

They are not forced, they are coerced in different fronts.

Last edited by coksiw; 12-06-2021 at 09:00 AM.
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2021, 09:32 AM
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
Members are not forced to tithe, they are coerced to tithe. Tithe is a requirement to participate in ministry. Let's be honest please.

Also, they are threatened, directly, or indirectly, by the quoting of Mal 3:8-9. They are told, openly, or indirectly by reading that reference, that they are robbing God, and will be cursed with a cursed. Let's be honest, please.

They are not forced, they are coerced in different fronts.
I agree, and understand what you're saying. Yet, truly at the heart of the matter is, people give because they're giving people. Like I posted, if the pastors denounced everything they have said, the high majority of people would still give.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2021, 10:17 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: “God wants ONLY volunteer giving”

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
I agree, and understand what you're saying. Yet, truly at the heart of the matter is, people give because they're giving people. Like I posted, if the pastors denounced everything they have said, the high majority of people would still give.
Modern tithing doctrine and giving are different things. People can be giving and give less than the tithe, or also more if they have ability.

Ministry is locked up to those that are financially able to tithe, and excluded to the very poor, and even worse, with a guilt of doing wrong.

We are having this discussion because US is not in a economic crisis like the 1930, otherwise, all of this "my uncle is poor and always tithed" would go out of the window. The current US poor is rich in a depressed economy.

However, one day, all of this falsehood of tithe will come down by a strike of God, and many will open their eyes, many will suffer loses, and those that persist in preaching the falsehood will suffer, and those that repent will find mercy.
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