More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

[mfblume]

The Light Doctrine is taking 1 John 1 way out of context.

1 John 1:6-10 KJV If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Maybe somebody already said this, since it is so easy to see the out-of-context reading of John's words, but walking in the light AS HE is in the light is referring to JESUS being in light. He is in perfect light. No shadows in his position. And we must walk in the light AS JESUS IS there, and if we are in the same light he is in, then we are in fellowship.

Whoever thought "walk in the light as he is in the light" meant "a person has to serve God in whatever light they have," was so far offbase....

That IS the reference they use, isn't it? Maybe I missed their entitling of their teaching by thinking it was based from this passage.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Light Doctrine is taking 1 John 1 way out of context.

1 John 1:6-10 KJV If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Maybe somebody already said this, since it is so easy to see the out-of-context reading of John's words, but walking in the light AS HE is in the light is referring to JESUS being in light. He is in perfect light. No shadows in his position. And we must walk in the light AS JESUS IS there, and if we are in the same light he is in, then we are in fellowship.

Whoever thought "walk in the light as he is in the light" meant "a person has to serve God in whatever light they have," was so far offbase....

That IS the reference they use, isn't it? Maybe I missed their entitling of their teaching by thinking it was based from this passage.

Excellent.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, once again, it turns out the sweet pea liberals are actually genuine legalists, who convert grace into debt and faith into deeds of some law standard of self-righteousness.

Amen my brother you hit the target.

Instead of a suit, tie, and Kiwi shoe polish, the emphasis is on being nice. Always allowing for clearances not to be exactly like the specification call for in the manual. Hey, it runs, it starts, and will take you from point A to point B. But it doesn't run like the factory designed it. Still jackleg mechanics work on your machinery, take your money, and for the most part it seems to work for a while. If it has some issues you return with complaints, but a good jackleg mechanic is able to convince you that what you are really experiencing isn't a problem with their work, or the vehicle. The end result is that you just get use to it. Whole industry becomes Speedy Lube, Jiffy Fix, and Quick Wrench. By the thousands people end up going and truly believe that experts are working and servicing their vehicles and equipment. But alas, that's not the case. You "blindly" trust, the wrench turner, and therefore by the time your equipment gives out, it is far too late.

Legalism of the Pharisees is the behavior is what was constantly looked at. Jesus said do as they say, not as they DO. We are admonished to BE holy therefore you would do righteousness. Honor? Does anyone strive to be honorable? Imagine an individual lying to win a religious discussion? Misrepresenting the other side just to win a religious argument? Yet, doctrine is somehow left to being agenda motivated. PeePaw was a Nazarene prayer warrior, Uncle Joe, may of been a Jack Mormon but he still loved the BOM, and always read his KJV. Auntie Maybelle was a devout Church of God, her holiness was amazing, she would pray, 40 times a day, she would float to the bathroom, and to the living room. Old Missy Mae, would listen to Family Radio around the clock, always kept her house dark. She would fast, and pray, and she was a sweety pie. Old Sister MaMaw, was the closet thing I ever seen to Jesus Christ. At a general conference she laid hands on the eyes of a homeless beggar, and he gave her money.

What about old Baptist down the block who is always having wine flowing out of his garden hose? Well, Jesus has this to say in Matthew 7:23 ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’


What will be the Old Baptist rebuttal to Jesus?

Matthew 7:22

'On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

The old Baptist is going to tell Jesus, "wait, I was more godlier than that UPCI member down the block from me! I smiled, I would mow his lawn when he was working overtime. I always went over his house and tried to correct him on his false teachings concerning you, your Father, and your pet bird. I even had wine flowing out of my water hose!!!!"

Yet, Jesus' only reply is that He NEVER knew him.



Religious snowflakes really need to understand the word "hypocrite"

Hypocrisy (n.)

c. 1200, ipocrisie, "the sin of pretending to virtue or goodness," from Old French ypocrisie, from Late Latin hypocrisis "hypocrisy," also "an imitation of a person's speech and gestures," from Attic Greek hypokrisis "acting on the stage; pretense," metaphorically, "hypocrisy," from hypokrinesthai "play a part, pretend," also "answer," from hypo- "under" (see hypo-) + middle voice of krinein "to sift, decide" (from PIE root *krei- "to sieve," thus "discriminate, distinguish"). The sense evolution in Attic Greek is from "separate gradually" to "answer" to "answer a fellow actor on stage" to "play a part." The h- was restored in English 16c.

Hypocrisy is the art of affecting qualities for the purpose of pretending to an undeserved virtue. Because individuals and institutions and societies most often live down to the suspicions about them, hypocrisy and its accompanying equivocations underpin the conduct of life. Imagine how frightful truth unvarnished would be. [Benjamin F. Martin, "France in 1938," 2005]

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Amen my brother you hit the target.

Instead of a suit, tie, and Kiwi shoe polish, the emphasis is on being nice. Always allowing for clearances not to be exactly like the specification call for in the manual. Hey, it runs, it starts, and will take you from point A to point B. But it doesn't run like the factory designed it. Still jackleg mechanics work on your machinery, take your money, and for the most part it seems to work for a while. If it has some issues you return with complaints, but a good jackleg mechanic is able to convince you that what you are really experiencing isn't a problem with their work, or the vehicle. The end result is that you just get use to it. Whole industry becomes Speedy Lube, Jiffy Fix, and Quick Wrench. By the thousands people end up going and truly believe that experts are working and servicing their vehicles and equipment. But alas, that's not the case. You "blindly" trust, the wrench turner, and therefore by the time your equipment gives out, it is far too late.

Legalism of the Pharisees is the behavior is what was constantly looked at. Jesus said do as they say, not as they DO. We are admonished to BE holy therefore you would do righteousness. Honor? Does anyone strive to be honorable? Imagine an individual lying to win a religious discussion? Misrepresenting the other side just to win a religious argument? Yet, doctrine is somehow left to being agenda motivated. PeePaw was a Nazarene prayer warrior, Uncle Joe, may of been a Jack Mormon but he still loved the BOM, and always read his KJV. Auntie Maybelle was a devout Church of God, her holiness was amazing, she would pray, 40 times a day, she would float to the bathroom, and to the living room. Old Missy Mae, would listen to Family Radio around the clock, always kept her house dark. She would fast, and pray, and she was a sweety pie. Old Sister MaMaw, was the closet thing I ever seen to Jesus Christ. At a general conference she laid hands on the eyes of a homeless beggar, and he gave her money.

What about old Baptist down the block who is always having wine flowing out of his garden hose? Well, Jesus has this to say in Matthew 7:23 ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’


What will be the Old Baptist rebuttal to Jesus?

Matthew 7:22

'On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

The old Baptist is going to tell Jesus, "wait, I was more godlier than that UPCI member down the block from me! I smiled, I would mow his lawn when he was working overtime. I always went over his house and tried to correct him on his false teachings concerning you, your Father, and your pet bird. I even had wine flowing out of my water hose!!!!"

Yet, Jesus' only reply is that He NEVER knew him.



Religious snowflakes really need to understand the word "hypocrite"

Hypocrisy (n.)

c. 1200, ipocrisie, "the sin of pretending to virtue or goodness," from Old French ypocrisie, from Late Latin hypocrisis "hypocrisy," also "an imitation of a person's speech and gestures," from Attic Greek hypokrisis "acting on the stage; pretense," metaphorically, "hypocrisy," from hypokrinesthai "play a part, pretend," also "answer," from hypo- "under" (see hypo-) + middle voice of krinein "to sift, decide" (from PIE root *krei- "to sieve," thus "discriminate, distinguish"). The sense evolution in Attic Greek is from "separate gradually" to "answer" to "answer a fellow actor on stage" to "play a part." The h- was restored in English 16c.

Hypocrisy is the art of affecting qualities for the purpose of pretending to an undeserved virtue. Because individuals and institutions and societies most often live down to the suspicions about them, hypocrisy and its accompanying equivocations underpin the conduct of life. Imagine how frightful truth unvarnished would be. [Benjamin F. Martin, "France in 1938," 2005]

Back to the point of this thread. It is not a point of "being nice". It's a point of overreacting to a problem that is not even occurring within the UPCI. It's design is to hype up the faithful into a rage of righteous indignation.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Light Doctrine is taking 1 John 1 way out of context.

1 John 1:6-10 KJV If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Maybe somebody already said this, since it is so easy to see the out-of-context reading of John's words, but walking in the light AS HE is in the light is referring to JESUS being in light. He is in perfect light. No shadows in his position. And we must walk in the light AS JESUS IS there, and if we are in the same light he is in, then we are in fellowship.

Whoever thought "walk in the light as he is in the light" meant "a person has to serve God in whatever light they have," was so far offbase....

That IS the reference they use, isn't it? Maybe I missed their entitling of their teaching by thinking it was based from this passage.

The context is walking in the light of God versus spiritual darkness.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Back to the point of this thread. It is not a point of "being nice". It's a point of overreacting to a problem that is not even occurring within the UPCI. It's design is to hype up the faithful into a rage of righteous indignation.

What are you basing that on?

When I first came to Fort Lauderdale I met a brother in the UPCI church here who believed strongly in light doctrine. I have met quite a few over the years who were staunch light doctrine believers. But please, give me the reason you are making the above statement?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What are you basing that on?

When I first came to Fort Lauderdale I met a brother in the UPCI church here who believed strongly in light doctrine. I have met quite a few over the years who were staunch light doctrine believers. But please, give me the reason you are making the above statement?

I certainly can confirm this to be true.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What are you basing that on?

When I first came to Fort Lauderdale I met a brother in the UPCI church here who believed strongly in light doctrine. I have met quite a few over the years who were staunch light doctrine believers. But please, give me the reason you are making the above statement?

Wouldn't the burden of proof be on who are promoting this anti-light doctrine hysteria? They are the ones expressing concern. What has brought this on? I have never encountered anyone who believed one could get to Heaven without the Holy Ghost.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The context is walking in the light of God versus spiritual darkness.

Right. As Jesus, not any given person, is in the light.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Wouldn't the burden of proof be on who are promoting this anti-light doctrine hysteria? They are the ones expressing concern. What has brought this on? I have never encountered anyone who believed one could get to Heaven without the Holy Ghost.

Well, honestly I would have to say that the ones who wrote the article were motivated because it was an issue for them. Also they would be the best ones to answer your inquiry. Like I said, and Brother Burk also has met a few as well, there are those in our movement who believe that God only judges you on what you know. Like some others posters have referred to Brother Arthur L Clanton's book United We Stand, and Thomas Fudge's Christianity without the Cross. Also Elder Steve Epley could possibly offer some good information on what he knows in Pentecostal history. But, as far as why they wrote the article they would be the best to explain. Everything else would be assumption.