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  #31  
Old 09-10-2010, 08:51 AM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Wouldn't it be interesting if American pastors stopped preaching tithes on income and started preaching tithes on increase...tithe on those loans you take out, the price of the new boat and so forth? If they could convince people to do that, they'd get a lot more money...

"Owe no man anything" is a piece of a verse that is taken out of context. The passage isn't talking about money. Debt is not generally a good thing to have, and a lot of Americans-and America as a whole-is hurting because they believed so strongly in borrowing. But there are times that debt can be considered, and must be. I took out loans on both of my houses. I may also take out a loan on my college expenses or next car. But I much prefer to be debt free.

What would happen if Americans couldn't take out loans for everything? Do you think the new home that sold for $12,000 in 1974 would now be worth $95,000 if people couldn't get loans for increasingly large sums? How much has personal and federal debt actually contributed to inflation? Do you think there would be so many $500,000 homes if people couldn't get loans? The median income in my area is $34,000/yr/family. The average home costs $150,000-$200,000. This would not be possible without debt. And it is totally unnecessary... families of 5-10 people survived for hundreds of years without three bathroom houses and four car garages. And it is utterly ridiculous for me, a single person, to be living in 1800 sq ft of floor space. (My goal is to super-downsize within two years-from 1800 sq ft to maybe 400-600.)

Sorry, that's way off topic.
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  #32  
Old 09-10-2010, 04:54 PM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
What you are not factoring into this scenario, is the risk of a 100K mortgage, in the event that you lose your job, and your tenants lose their jobs and move out. If the property is debt free, you have time to get more tenants, even if you have to miss several months of the rental income. Debt-free is ideally better. Yes, you may leverage debt to increase income, but you also increase your risk.
Of course there is risk. However, you can increase your cashflow by using good debt verses paying everything off. If you have $20,000 to put down, and need $20,000 to put down on another property, the chances of you being able to raise that much capitol verses having to pay off your first income property and then raising that much capitol, are much greater. So, which is the greater risk? Having to pay off all your income property mortgage before you invest again? Or investing early and often, carrying more mortgages but having more cash flow? The risk level is in the viewpoint of the borrower. It may be riskier to have a job that you can get laid off of at any given moment than have a lot of good debt.
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2010, 05:23 PM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
Wouldn't it be interesting if American pastors stopped preaching tithes on income and started preaching tithes on increase...tithe on those loans you take out, the price of the new boat and so forth? If they could convince people to do that, they'd get a lot more money...

"Owe no man anything" is a piece of a verse that is taken out of context. The passage isn't talking about money. Debt is not generally a good thing to have, and a lot of Americans-and America as a whole-is hurting because they believed so strongly in borrowing. But there are times that debt can be considered, and must be. I took out loans on both of my houses. I may also take out a loan on my college expenses or next car. But I much prefer to be debt free.

What would happen if Americans couldn't take out loans for everything? Do you think the new home that sold for $12,000 in 1974 would now be worth $95,000 if people couldn't get loans for increasingly large sums? How much has personal and federal debt actually contributed to inflation? Do you think there would be so many $500,000 homes if people couldn't get loans? The median income in my area is $34,000/yr/family. The average home costs $150,000-$200,000. This would not be possible without debt. And it is totally unnecessary... families of 5-10 people survived for hundreds of years without three bathroom houses and four car garages. And it is utterly ridiculous for me, a single person, to be living in 1800 sq ft of floor space. (My goal is to super-downsize within two years-from 1800 sq ft to maybe 400-600.)

Sorry, that's way off topic.
I don't think it's way off topic, personally.

I think the problem is the fracrional reserve banking system.....but there is really nothing we can do about it.
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2010, 08:18 AM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
I don't think it's way off topic, personally.

I think the problem is the fracrional reserve banking system.....but there is really nothing we can do about it.
I meant fractional.
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  #35  
Old 06-30-2011, 02:24 PM
deafdriscoll deafdriscoll is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

All of this is very interesting. however, you need to pray and follow god in this matter. We all have choices in this matter.deafdriscoll
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2011, 04:50 PM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
I am having a hard time trying to factor in "personal repsonsibility" in making serious, life altering decisions.

It really, really frustrates and annoy me when things continue to go bad when I have the personal power to stop the madness so to speak.


So when it looks bad, and when things go bad, I am the one responsible for my life and my life's decisions.

What about the God Factor? No one cares about the God Factor when it comes to my personal repsonsibilites.


When is He responsible and when is it ever acceptable to "place the responsibility for bad" on God?

Never! I know this in my head and in my heart. Yet I am frustrated.


I am supposed to live my life in a way that pleases Him-- including listening to and obeying the godly advice of people like my Pastor.

So I am struggling financially-- still don't see a clear end in sight, and I think I am going to go against the advice I was given and seek employment overseas.


Of course it does not sit well to think this, type this or say this.

No, I haven't spoke with him about this.

But I am tired.

Nothing is working out in a way where I can make financial progress.

I can make it paycheck to paycheck.

Maybe in a few months, I'll be able to start putting some towards paying off my nearly 50K in debts-- but if the current trends continue, there will be some other crisis. If not immediately, it will come sooner or later, something to deter my financial well being.


It will be much quicker for me to pay off my debts and move on with my life in a half a year then to be continued to be saddled with this for however how long it takes.


Who will pay my bills?

Did God step in and stop my foreclosure?

How about the other financial stuff that is on my record-- where is He?

How come no one wants to forgive me of my debts? I've already forgiven so many people, so many times, concerning so many issues. I have forgiven them.

Where is the guy that gives the advice to not do this or not do that?

Maybe he wants to pay me bills for me.



Why do I feel like my hands are tied?

I feel like I am just plain lost and that my efforts to seek God and a closer relationship with Him are not only vain, but costly-- which makes what I'm doing, or maybe the way I am going about doing what I'm doing stupid and foolish.


Like I know God cares and loves. He provides. He blesses. He lifts up.

But if He is Sovereign, He took my job away knowing that I would not be able to pay off my debts without it. He knew that a couple years later that I would be somewhere in Florida, wondering how I could have messed my life up financially so badly when it could have been different if He had just let me keep my job. He knew that when I would seek advice on going overseas, I would be advised against itm, thus setting up my life for more financial ruin and even legal issues-- all of which could have been avoided.

Honestly, I really know how I can fix this even now or how to have avoided all of this from the get go.


It just makes me so frustrated and angry!

My life is all my fault-- it's all my responsibility, but what about God?

Where is HE in this?


Nothing makes any sense and I am just tired of all the BS that could have been avoided!

The last couple of years have been utter lunacy! Pretty much, I have failed at life, and that miserably.

He's God. I'm man. He's my Creator-- who am I to demand anything of Him. I won't.

I will tell Him that I am tired and I am done with going in this direction.
"A Thousand Miles"

This song is the song of my heart today.

Everything is not fixed or perfect yet, but God is so merciful to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDgVhzhmY8
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  #37  
Old 07-03-2011, 05:15 PM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

German, good to hear things are going better than when you posted this thread almost a year ago.

I think God expects us to give our very best effort then turn the rest over to him (which is very hard to do). He does come through. Many times not in the way we wanted or thought he would or should but he does come through.

I have had some tough times financially in my life but God has never let me starve. In my toughest time he sent me two or three miracles that were not long term solutions to my problems at the time but bolstered my faith and will to go on.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #38  
Old 07-04-2011, 10:23 AM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
"A Thousand Miles"

This song is the song of my heart today.

Everything is not fixed or perfect yet, but God is so merciful to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDgVhzhmY8
great song!
Jermyn, somethings are just "life" , somethings our fault & somethings are designed by God.
Maybe God is just testing you...your trust for Him...
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I AM the VOICE of REASON and SANITY around here!

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