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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #11  
Old 02-26-2012, 07:41 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJS
.
Last nite, as I was meditating and reading the grand O’ book, I made note of a couple of verses.
The first is concerning the O.T. LAW in Act 15:10:
Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

From all indications here – it seems that anyone trying - to keep those Levitical and Mosaic Laws, was nigh unto impossible.

Second, is concerning the O.T. LAW in Act 15:24:
For as much as we have heard, that certain once's, which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.

All the apostle said and wrote: … that anyone pointing to or demanding that anyone keep the Levitical and Mosaic Laws… have “went out from us”.
Ahhhh,… folks this seems to be way more SERIOUS than I first understood it to be.

I am 65 years old and for much of my life, I was in the UPC, a parrot of my pastors, who was a parrot of headquarters some place.

I now know that I am going to make it my ‘personal duty’ to go to any and all… that I have in the past instructed – and if I have used the Old Testament Law in any way…even if it has a smell of pointing to those laws, as a means that someone must follow or adhere to…that I will tell them I was WRONG and I was in ERROR.

Jesus said in (Matt 21:44), that we either “fall on the rock (now) and become broken…or the rock will fall on us and grind us to powder…(later on in the spirit world era).

Does the O.T. Law have any purpose for us today…Yes.
For me, it is a history lesson, something interesting to read and I am to learn from their mistakes….but, that’s basically it.

THERE….I’ve put the last nail in the lid on the coffin - that holds Mr. LAW.
But alas, - I know that there is somebody out there looking for a crowbar to try and pry the lid off the coffin…and then to hold up again, to display, the skeleton of Mr. LAW.
.
The Law of Moses and it's ordinances were a yoke of bondage. However, can the same be said of the Ten Commandments as found at the heart of the Law of Moses? Ten simple commandments unable to be kept by a born again Christian? John writes that "sin is the transgression of the law" (I John 3:4). If we "sin" we have transgressed the law. The law still defines sin. What has been removed are the ordinances against us. We no longer need atonement through the blood of bulls and goats, we now have the blood of the Lamb, Jesus. We no longer live in accordance to the law to be saved. We are now saved by faith in Christ unto good works as part of our sanctification. We CAN live holy, sinless. But before we can realize this truth...we must understand what sin actually is. The Ten Commandments are moral, revealing God's will for man. One will either keep the Law of Righteousness in the Spirit of Christ, or violate it and be judged along with the transgressors.

If one has not violated the Ten Commandments in spirit or deed today, they have lived a day in sinless victory, as they walk after the Spirit.

Last edited by Aquila; 02-26-2012 at 08:09 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:11 AM
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Dalton Dalton is offline
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

So does that apply only to the ten commandments? As long as we go by the ten commandments and trust and believe we are good? What about drinking, tattoos, or anything else? I know of numerous times in the new testament where it says to touch not the drink or things of that sort.. that isn't listed in the ten commandments. At what point do we know which is to follow or that which is just being said (I'm sorry verrrryyy new to all this. Going to victory apostolic and waiting on the holy spirit.)

The reason I ask is... because I was shown a series of verses (Heb 6:1-6) talking about sinning against the spirit. And the unforgiveable sin was blasphemy of the holy spirit. But blasphemy only means gross irreverance towards the will of something. So if it were gods will that we not do something and we continually conciously do it... would that not be blasphemy rendering the grace null because we are crucifying christ for a second time? Im just afraid that little white lies or smoking a cigarette or having a beer every now and then is going to send me on a fast ride to hell and I don't want that.

Im having a problem with thought processes. The book says the minds of men are continually evil but I do not want the thought's that I think passing through (I know this to be demonic or fleshly but I just wish I didn't have to deal with it period) So that being said it scares the life out of me when I find myself giving in and doing something like that and then 5 minutes after I've done it Im like... man I am sooooo stupid.

Last edited by Dalton; 03-15-2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Forgot to add my reasoning.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:00 PM
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Dalton Dalton is offline
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

I mean. I don't think I am fully grasping it at all. Like in corinthians it says not to defile the holy temple. That is new testament, so I said to my deacon, "What does it mean to defile? I mean just to go against the will of? Because it doesn't mention Tattoo in the new testament anywhere. Defile means to make impure or biblically un-holy. But when the rich man asked jesus what must I do to enter the kingdom of heaven he listed the ten commandments and said to love everyone as we love ourselves and that was it. So wouldn't by jesus definition to defile be to break any of the commandments he mentioned" And my deacon said he answered what it took to get into heaven. If he had asked him what it took to stay in heaven and to keep from falling from grace he would have given him a seperate answer.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:07 PM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

Dalton, first of all, welcome to the forum!

I hope you can sort out all the opinions on this topic, and form a reasonable one for yourself. IMO, nobody knows for sure which (if any) is right. It's just another thing that needs to be worked out to your own satisfaction.
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:10 PM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Dalton, first of all, welcome to the forum!

I hope you can sort out all the opinions on this topic, and form a reasonable one for yourself. IMO, nobody knows for sure which (if any) is right. It's just another thing that needs to be worked out to your own satisfaction.
Oh, and a lot of the folks here will say that they were led to their opinion by the Lord (only, without calling it an opinion). It seems to help them be comfortable with it.
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  #16  
Old 03-15-2012, 04:57 PM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJS View Post
Againthe Old Covenant was REPLACED with a New Covenantand (it is my opinion) that it is Only the NEW Covenant that is profitable for teaching, reproof, correction and instructions (2Tim 3:16).not the Old Covenant, contrary to what many may teach.
2 Tim 3: 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

This says ALL SCRIPTURE.

Question: What other "scripture" existed at the time when this was penned\spoken other than the OT?
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  #17  
Old 03-15-2012, 05:28 PM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty View Post
2 Tim 3: 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

This says ALL SCRIPTURE.

Question: What other "scripture" existed at the time when this was penned\spoken other than the OT?
All scripture? Or just the scriptures found in your favorite canon?

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=38912

Lots of other scriptures existed, besides the Protestant OT.
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  #18  
Old 03-16-2012, 07:53 AM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

[QUOTE=Dalton;1148265]So does that apply only to the ten commandments? As long as we go by the ten commandments and trust and believe we are good?

Dalton, what does your Pastor say ?

The internet is not your Pastor, nor this Forum. Before you get sidetrack from so many "Opinions", and some are very good, make a note to speak to your Pastor, not the deacon, unless the Pastor specifically said, the "Deacon" is the authority to answer your questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
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  #19  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:11 AM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
All scripture? Or just the scriptures found in your favorite canon?

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=38912

Lots of other scriptures existed, besides the Protestant OT.
What scriptures? The NT books at that time were just letters to churches. There was only the OT. As a matter of fact, I have found no where that the authors of those letters (now NT books) had any idea at the time that their own letters (addressed to answer questions of various churches) would become "inspired scripture". That being said, at the time Timothy states/pens these words, what "scripture" could he have been speaking of ?
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You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree

In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter


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  #20  
Old 03-16-2012, 11:12 AM
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Re: Questions about the 'Old Covenant' laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty View Post
What scriptures? The NT books at that time were just letters to churches. There was only the OT. As a matter of fact, I have found no where that the authors of those letters (now NT books) had any idea at the time that their own letters (addressed to answer questions of various churches) would become "inspired scripture". That being said, at the time Timothy states/pens these words, what "scripture" could he have been speaking of ?
That's a good question. But sure, it's likely that he meant what we call the OT today, or something close to it. Maybe the Book of Enoch should have been included. Jude quotes it by name and calls it prophecy. The NT quotes other non-biblical writings, but (usually? always? not sure) without such authority given or implied.

Which leaves us with the NT. Is there Biblical proof that the NT itself is inspired? Nowhere does the NT list the books of the NT (or the OT, for that matter). Peter endorsed some of Paul's writing. And Paul endorses his own. (Except when he is giving his own opinion.) Otherwise, the NT table of contents is the result of human effort. They think they got it right. Did they? Was it God's idea that there had to be four gospels, no more, no fewer?
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