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  #41  
Old 03-07-2014, 12:20 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
It's so simple. A direct question was asked in the bible and a direct answer was given.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now folks want to complicate it by you have to blah blah blah and then you have to blah blah blah blah and then you might be saved.

What must I do to be saved? (See answer above) And forget about a lot of jumping through the hoops of the hundreds of salvation plans out there.
You do realize that this is the same situation found in Acts 2?

What were they suppose to believe first and foremost? They were to believe this - "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36

After the men "heard" and believed this, in verse 38, they asked what they must do?

So, no, the scripture never implies that belief is all there is to salvation. It is what we must do to proceed. We first must believe in who He is and what He came to do. If this is taught properly, people will seek the Giver and not the Gift.

Peter allows them to proceed - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." (Acts 2:38-40)

Let me come back to add that in the Apostles' Day, the revelation of Jesus Christ was a huge issue and a wonderful revelation. That is why they weren't walking around talking about speaking in tongues every moment. The Gift fell on those that believed. Today, we are seeking the Gift more than the Giver. We know who Jesus Christ is, and we aren't as interested in that fact as we are in speaking in tongues. So, we focus on tongues more, which is a travesty, IMO.
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  #42  
Old 03-07-2014, 01:43 PM
justlookin justlookin is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
You do realize that this is the same situation found in Acts 2?

What were they suppose to believe first and foremost? They were to believe this - "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36

After the men "heard" and believed this, in verse 38, they asked what they must do?

So, no, the scripture never implies that belief is all there is to salvation. It is what we must do to proceed. We first must believe in who He is and what He came to do. If this is taught properly, people will seek the Giver and not the Gift.

Peter allows them to proceed - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." (Acts 2:38-40)

Let me come back to add that in the Apostles' Day, the revelation of Jesus Christ was a huge issue and a wonderful revelation. That is why they weren't walking around talking about speaking in tongues every moment. The Gift fell on those that believed. Today, we are seeking the Gift more than the Giver. We know who Jesus Christ is, and we aren't as interested in that fact as we are in speaking in tongues. So, we focus on tongues more, which is a travesty, IMO.
As I pointed out earlier, folks want to make it complicated. Why don't folks just stick with the simple answer?
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  #43  
Old 03-07-2014, 02:13 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
As I pointed out earlier, folks want to make it complicated. Why don't folks just stick with the simple answer?
Thats what PO did. She is sticking with the simple answer.


Regardless of all the pontificators, and the exegeters and the theological wizbangers, at the end of the day, the question was first asked..."whatwegottadooooo????" and it was then answered by Peter in Acts 2:38

First question
First Answer

all else is superfluous
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  #44  
Old 03-07-2014, 02:33 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Thats what PO did. She is sticking with the simple answer.


Regardless of all the pontificators, and the exegeters and the theological wizbangers, at the end of the day, the question was first asked..."whatwegottadooooo????" and it was then answered by Peter in Acts 2:38

First question
First Answer

all else is superfluous
John 3:16?
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  #45  
Old 03-07-2014, 02:54 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Wonderful passage. I certainly believe Peter believed that to be the Gospel Truth.

and when Peter PREACHED THAT on the Day of Pentecost:

"Let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Master"Acts 2:36

The crowd was convicted and responded with "what shall we do"

Peter answered them.

First time it was asked.
First time it was answered.


Thank you for helping me prove the point.
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  #46  
Old 03-07-2014, 03:50 PM
justlookin justlookin is offline
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Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Thats what PO did. She is sticking with the simple answer.


Regardless of all the pontificators, and the exegeters and the theological wizbangers, at the end of the day, the question was first asked..."whatwegottadooooo????" and it was then answered by Peter in Acts 2:38

First question
First Answer


all else is superfluous
Peter was specific on how to be saved prior to Acts 2:38.

*[[Act 2:21]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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  #47  
Old 03-07-2014, 03:59 PM
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Re: Is This True?

RJR,
the story of Cornelius' salvation actually blows holes into most OP views.
1. Peter tells them that their sins will be remitted when they put their faith in Jesus. This goes against the teaching that water baptism remits sins.
2. Cornelius was "fillled" with the Holy Ghost before he was baptized. (I say filled because I think salvational regeneration and a filling or empowerment are separate but can occur simultaneously as in this case) Either God gave someone the Holy Ghost before their sins were remitted, or their sins were remitted through faith prior to them receiving the Holy Ghost.

Most OPs believe that he was definitely saved AFTER he was baptized in Jesus name, probably or kinda saved after he spoke in tongues, but certainly not entirely saved before those. I believe that once he put his faith in Jesus (as Peter taught) his sins were remitted and he was spiritually reborn. We also see that in addition to his salvation he was empowered by a "filling" or manifestation of the Holy Ghost that showed to Peter and the others that they were also saved. All of this mind you, BEFORE they were water baptized. If they had not spoken in tongues, Peter may have doubted their conversion and may not have offered water baptism. The tongues were for a sign, not to Cornelius who believed, but to those who may not have believed that on the Gentiles was also poured out the Holy Ghost.

Did Jesus pour his spirit into a dirty, sinful, unclean vessel?

Or did Jesus pour his spirit into a vessel who's sins were remitted through faith in Jesus?
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  #48  
Old 03-07-2014, 05:22 PM
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Re: Is This True?

The reason Cornelius and the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost BEFORE being baptized was because "the Brethren" that went with Peter "forbade" him to baptize them.

Act 10:44..  ..While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 10:45..  ..And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:46..  ..For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Act 10:47..  ..Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
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  #49  
Old 03-07-2014, 07:53 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Abiding Now View Post
The reason Cornelius and the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost BEFORE being baptized was because "the Brethren" that went with Peter "forbade" him to baptize them.

Act 10:44..  ..While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 10:45..  ..And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:46..  ..For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Act 10:47..  ..Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Abiding, I have always viewed this passage as Peter not knowing what to expect when he went to see Cornelius and that it was the reason God filled them with the Holy Ghost, when they believed the word spoken concerning Jesus Christ. IOW, God confirming the prophesy that He would reach out to the Gentiles. (Isaiah 11:10; 42:6; 49:6)

The strong view of those present that these Gentiles must be baptized shows that what Peter preached in the upper room was the Gospel message to them and they followed it.

Did I miss where the brethren forbade Peter to baptize? I've never heard that before.
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  #50  
Old 03-07-2014, 08:15 PM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by obriencp View Post

Did Jesus pour his spirit into a dirty, sinful, unclean vessel?

Or did Jesus pour his spirit into a vessel who's sins were remitted through faith in Jesus?
The reason I ask is because you will find yourself in a dilemma no matter how you answer.

If Jesus poured his spirit into an unclean vessel then Cornelius was spiritually alive while at the same time spiritually dead in sin.

If Jesus can only pour out his spirit into a cleansed vessel, then Cornelius' sins were already remitted before he was water baptized.
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