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  #51  
Old 03-07-2014, 08:18 PM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Is This True?

There are many pentecostals that speak in tongues and water baptize. But their views of salvation and the role of water baptism don't run into an issue with my questions above.
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  #52  
Old 03-07-2014, 08:51 PM
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Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
The reason I ask is because you will find yourself in a dilemma no matter how you answer.

If Jesus poured his spirit into an unclean vessel then Cornelius was spiritually alive while at the same time spiritually dead in sin.

If Jesus can only pour out his spirit into a cleansed vessel, then Cornelius' sins were already remitted before he was water baptized.
There is no dilemma being waged for the Apostles, so why would there be for us?

There is no dilemma, because they said these things:

"Repent ye, and therefore be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..." (Acts 3:19)

"Unto what then were you baptized?" (Acts 19:3)

"Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" (19:2)

"What shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God? (I Peter 4:17)

Apparently, the Apostles viewed the Death, Burial and Resurrection as being the same as Repentance, Baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. They didn't divide this up into the terminology we use, i.e., "the Gospel and our response to the Gospel". I don't see them making a distinction according to the wording in I Peter 4:17. They called the whole package - The Gospel.

Being there are three elements that they emphatically focused on, making sure all were applied in a person's life, they didn't view anyone a clean vessel without all three elements involved.

So, again, there is no dilemma, unless you are trying to force a change in the Apostles doctrine.
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  #53  
Old 03-07-2014, 09:42 PM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Is This True?

Did God pour out His spirit into an unclean vessel?

Did Cornelius have the spirit of life while simultaneously being spiritually dead in sin?
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  #54  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:19 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
Peter was specific on how to be saved prior to Acts 2:38.

*[[Act 2:21]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
aint that awesome?!

Peter preached it straight and the result was a question:
What shall we do?
And Peter laid it out for them…

First asked, first answered. the rest is just knuckleheads 2000 years later trying to be smarter than Peter.
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  #55  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:22 PM
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Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
The reason I ask is because you will find yourself in a dilemma no matter how you answer.

If Jesus poured his spirit into an unclean vessel then Cornelius was spiritually alive while at the same time spiritually dead in sin.

If Jesus can only pour out his spirit into a cleansed vessel, then Cornelius' sins were already remitted before he was water baptized.
LOL. you are silly. just because you can create a straw man doesn't mean i need to pretend to be a scarecrow.

the story of Cornelius reinforces the message found in Acts 2. Again, when asked what to do, Peter explained what was needful.

and Peter did it because Jesus charged Peter in Mt. 16. If Peter had said we needed to crawl a mile over broken glass, we would all have scars on our knees
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  #56  
Old 03-08-2014, 06:01 AM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
LOL. you are silly. just because you can create a straw man doesn't mean i need to pretend to be a scarecrow.

the story of Cornelius reinforces the message found in Acts 2. Again, when asked what to do, Peter explained what was needful.

and Peter did it because Jesus charged Peter in Mt. 16. If Peter had said we needed to crawl a mile over broken glass, we would all have scars on our knees
Love it!
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  #57  
Old 03-08-2014, 07:17 AM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
Peter was specific on how to be saved prior to Acts 2:38.

*[[Act 2:21]] KJV* And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And Jesus was specific before that. Several times.
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  #58  
Old 03-08-2014, 07:54 AM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Being there are three elements that they emphatically focused on, making sure all were applied in a person's life, they didn't view anyone a clean vessel without all three elements involved.

So, again, there is no dilemma, unless you are trying to force a change in the Apostles doctrine.
Apparently God's view of Cornelius was greater than man's. I guess it's not possible to be saved by grace through faith, by having faith in Jesus, by calling on the name of the Lord, justification through faith, or having one's sins remitted through faith in Jesus.

God saw fit to pour out His spirit on Cornelius before he was water baptized.
So although "they didn't view anyone a clean vessel without all three elements involved" God must've thought otherwise.

Will anyone answer my question... Did GOD pour out His spirit into an unclean vessel?
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  #59  
Old 03-08-2014, 07:55 AM
obriencp obriencp is offline
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Re: Is This True?

Timmy, i'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me... I guess it doesn't matter, but sometimes it's hard to recognize where one stands.
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  #60  
Old 03-08-2014, 08:05 AM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
Apparently God's view of Cornelius was greater than man's. I guess it's not possible to be saved by grace through faith, by having faith in Jesus, by calling on the name of the Lord, justification through faith, or having one's sins remitted through faith in Jesus.

God saw fit to pour out His spirit on Cornelius before he was water baptized.
So although "they didn't view anyone a clean vessel without all three elements involved" God must've thought otherwise.

Will anyone answer my question... Did GOD pour out His spirit into an unclean vessel?
If you are trying to infur that Cornelius was saved because he had been spirit filled, apparently, the Apostles felt the WHOLE Gospel was important by saying, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" (Acts 10:47)

The NIV says it this way, "47Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Are you "standing in the way" by implying that "believing only" saves you?

Because I Peter 3:21 would contradict you - "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also..." (NIV)
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