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  #81  
Old 03-09-2014, 09:52 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Is This True?

and i do feel led to say that our church is almost certainly proceeding from some imperfect premises; the doctrine of Original Sin in practice, etc. I'm not even sure that it's a commentary on our pastors, so much as one of the inevitability of satan's penetrating especially a believer's life in every aspect. we are def deceived in ways that are difficult to even imagine, as they are so ingrained in our...mores? society? church, government, schools, marriages, ...
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  #82  
Old 03-09-2014, 01:05 PM
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TyronePalmer TyronePalmer is offline
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Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
What is the true scripture which promises eternal life and salvation? Or what combination of scriptures. I ask you a similar question that you asked me. Which single factor or combination of factors offers a guarantee, a promise of eternal life and salvation?
Who is the source of all truth, life, and resurrection from the dead? Jesus. His word should be all that's needed to answer every question, unfortunately in these last days, even His word is not enough and many explain away His clear teachings.

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5 that one COULD NOT enter into the kingdom of God UNLESS that one is born of water (Strong's Number:5204 Hudor = the element water) And the Spirit (Strong's Number:4151 Pneuma = Holy Spirit)

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

Now that's enough for me, and considering what we read in the book of Acts, which by the way is the ONLY New Testament book that records the actual events of the conversions of first century believers of Jesus Christ.

Every book after Acts is written to those who were already converted to Christ, they were letters or epistles to the saints.
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Matthew 24:13-14 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
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  #83  
Old 03-09-2014, 01:19 PM
justlookin justlookin is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by TyronePalmer View Post
Who is the source of all truth, life, and resurrection from the dead? Jesus. His word should be all that's needed to answer every question, unfortunately in these last days, even His word is not enough and many explain away His clear teachings.

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5 that one COULD NOT enter into the kingdom of God UNLESS that one is born of water (Strong's Number:5204 Hudor = the element water) And the Spirit (Strong's Number:4151 Pneuma = Holy Spirit)

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

Now that's enough for me, and considering what we read in the book of Acts, which by the way is the ONLY New Testament book that records the actual events of the conversions of first century believers of Jesus Christ.

Every book after Acts is written to those who were already converted to Christ, they were letters or epistles to the saints.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

That's enough for me. If Jesus had asked me the question I'd have to answer Him "yes". What would be your answer to Him had He stood before you and asked you the same question?
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  #84  
Old 03-09-2014, 01:27 PM
RJR RJR is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

That's enough for me. If Jesus had asked me the question I'd have to answer Him "yes". What would be your answer to Him had He stood before you and asked you the same question?
The message of remission of sins and the promise of the HG would begin at Jerusalem, Luke 24:47, Acts 11:15. St John 3 was before Christ suffered so we could experience the new birth, Luke 24:46-47, John 7:37-39. The thief and the encounter highlighted before in this post was before Jerusalem, in other words before the beginning!
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  #85  
Old 03-09-2014, 02:52 PM
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Re: Is This True?

I know what is true. This message by Rex Johnson in Austin Texas - Christian Life Church. He isn't UPC anymore, but he preached the best message on salvation than I have ever heard - very excellent! If anyone says he does not preach Acts 2:38 anymore, you are wrong.

There are three parts (2/13/14;2/19/14;2/26/14) to the message entitled Questing for the Wind. Here is the Podcast:



https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...in/id559933286

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  #86  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:19 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Is This True?

and yet even Rex would not deny that Scripture strongly indicates, in more than one place, that many who professed no belief are invited to the feast, and many who professed will be gnashing their teeth. codify the Holy Spirit at your peril
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  #87  
Old 03-09-2014, 11:06 PM
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
and yet even Rex would not deny that Scripture strongly indicates, in more than one place, that many who professed no belief are invited to the feast, and many who professed will be gnashing their teeth. codify the Holy Spirit at your peril
I don't think you should speak for him.

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless." Matthew 22:11-12 (NIV)

Obviously, the others that came in "late" were furnished with wedding attire.

This parable would also be relating to the same issue as the parable of the workers in the vineyard - showing up late, were paid the same wages.

And it also relates to these parables - Matthew 3:12; 13:26; 13:27; 13:48; 25:1; 25:33
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  #88  
Old 03-10-2014, 07:37 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I don't think you should speak for him.

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless." Matthew 22:11-12 (NIV)

Obviously, the others that came in "late" were furnished with wedding attire.
hmm. as one of the guests invited from the street (gentiles, pagans, ...), most of which managed to 'get' wedding clothes, it seems to me that the naked man still must rep a 'professed believer' in our lexicon, and not someone who never professed, and yet 'successfully' attended. And you say 'were given' wedding clothes, but aren't these our works, and the clothes rewards for them? Not to imply that your quote does not have some application--reading it from my pov just described threw me into this weird alt reflection of..."doer v sayer," and while i think the naked guy more closely reps those who cry Lord. Lord than those who said When did we see you?, it does intro an interesting, similar but different reflection.

You would have to convince me some more that naked guy repped those obviously surprised to be successfully invited for me to see that as contrasting evidence, which since he ended up with gnashed teeth i don't think is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post

This parable would also be relating to the same issue as the parable of the workers in the vineyard - showing up late, were paid the same wages.

And it also relates to these parables - Matthew 3:12; 13:26; 13:27; 13:48; 25:1; 25:33
ok, now the workers who came late for the same wages accurately reps those who asked when did we see you thirsty, and give you water?, but not the naked man, who ended up rejected, imo.

also the naked man does not seem to rep someone 'saved,' with no 'clothing' (as in a believer's rewards), but someone who was 'invited from the street' (gentile), but had no works, not even unto salvation (asking Christ to come into his heart), neverminding about a 'believer' (who at least did all those things we accept as prerequisites for being saved, pentecostal style) who nonetheless had none of the works required to earn 'rewards' (sword, shield , helmet, beastplate, etc)...so, a more pointed parable for your argument, and one illuminating some other interesting parallels, but prolly still not enough to give Rex pause?

awesome kind of trichotomy goin on there, tho; i usually reserve the meatier study for after i'm fully awake, so my head is moving around all funny inside at the moment. i'll def check out the relation of the other parables you mention...but prolly one at a time!
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  #89  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:31 AM
RJR RJR is offline
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Re: Is This True?

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Originally Posted by justlookin View Post
Thanks for the scriptures, and as you pointed out it's not an exhaustive list.

I'd never decide for anyone, other than myself, which factor saves. What I am seeing here, and it's generally true for whatever denomination one follows, are folks trying to do exactly that though. Attempting to decide for us which scripture concerning salvation is complete within itself. Does John 3:16 within itself really offer eternal life? Does Romans 10:9-10 within itself really promise one's salvation? Or is John 3:16 or Romans 10:9-10 incomplete, lacking the essential details, needing more than what is promised in the passages?

How about Acts 2:38? Is one promised salvation in the passage? Is it complete within itself? Or, as above, is Acts 2:38 really not offering salvation if one follows the scripture?

The response many times to such questions is 'one must take the whole counsel of God'. The question then becomes what combination of scriptures are offered which guarantees, promises, offers life and not death, salvation and not condemnation? If Acts 2:38 doesn't offer that, or John 3:16 doesn't offer that, or Romans 10:9-10 doesn't offer that, or Acts 2:21 doesn't offer that, or Acts 16:31 doesn't offer that, what can we find in scripture which does offer these things concerning eternal life and salvation?

The direct question of "what must I do to be saved" received an incomplete answer, according to some. Paul was offering yet another partial plan when he taught to confess with your mouth, believe in your heart. John had yet another teaching that one really cannot have eternal life though believing in Jesus Christ. Still others, who dismiss those teachings, will also dismiss Peter's specific words "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".

What is the true scripture which promises eternal life and salvation? Or what combination of scriptures. I ask you a similar question that you asked me. Which single factor or combination of factors offers a guarantee, a promise of eternal life and salvation?
As to Acts 16, it is obvious there is much more to what was actually said than is listed. This is true for the Eunuch in Acts 8, and is also referred to in Acts 2, "with many other words." However it is abundantly evident in Acts 16 (jailor) and Acts 8 (eunuch) by what they actually did. The jailor was baptized the same hour (midnight) of course this is concluded in Acts 16 by the reference that Paul spake unto him the word of God verse 32, and in the case of the eunuch in Acts 8, without any reference ti the actual term baptism in the text, he responds when he sees water vs. 36, what doth hinder me from being baptized. It is obvious when Phillip had preached Christ unto him, baptism was part of it. The entire message in all passages above is not included in the text, but through the response the evidence is CLEAR!
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  #90  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:58 AM
RJR RJR is offline
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Re: Is This True?

It is also clear baptism and the Holy Ghost is part of Bible believing in the NT, Mark 16:16, John 7:37-39. Just as obedience and believing is used interchangeably in Rom 10:16. We know how important obedience is, 2The. 1:8.
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