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Old 07-04-2011, 10:35 AM
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Knowing God....

Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Sometimes I wonder if we Oneness Pentecostals are trying to figure God out rather than just KNOWING Him. Are we placing greater empahsis on knowing ABOUT God than we are on really knowing Him? I’ve thought about this a lot over the years, but as I read through the thread about Bro. Bernards book, I’m beginning to wonder if there are any two Oneness believers who, in fact, believe or understand Oneness the same way? We all believe in ONE God. In fact, I’ve never, ever met a Pentecostal believer, or any Christian believer for that matter, that actually believes in more than one God.

The Articles of Faith: of Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ starts with these words: “We believe in the One ever-living, eternal God…”

The 16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God contains these words: “The ONE TRUE GOD….”

Even the Southern Baptists say: “There is one and only one true and living God…”

So, at least, fundamentally, virtually every Christian group states emphatically that they believe in One God. True, as we dig deeper into each groups beliefs, differences begin to emerge. But on the surface, we all state the same thing: We believe in ONE GOD. Its when each groups attempt to differentiate themselves from other groups that we encounter differences. We analyze our beliefs, we study them, expound them, we explain them. We write book after book, study guide after study guide to assert we believe in ONE GOD- a fact that is summed up quite well with the first words in our belief in ONE GOD.

The Book of Genesis begins with these words: “In the beginning, God….” No lengthy discourse to prove the existence of God. No introduction, no careful analytical study to prove His existence. Just “God”. No explanations of what or who God is. Just “God”. God is the subject of all 66 Books of the Bible, yet, in those first 4 words of the Bible , God is…well, God is just “GOD”. Over time though, countless sermons have been preached to prove there is but One God. Books and study materials have been written to assert the belief that God is one. Yet, I find it interesting that there is no “Godhead Section” in the entirety of the Bible itself. Sure, there are smatterings of comments regarding the mystery of the Godhead, but, where is the section that brings it all together in one volume or one section that explains the Godhead in minute detail that leaves the reader to unequivocally conclude that there is but One God? Well, there is none….

Why is that? Because there is only ONE GOD. We define Him differently. We understand Him differently. I will go on record as to state that I cannot fathom the depths of the “mystery of godliness” as Paul puts it in 1 Tim 3:16. Here, Paul says: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. There is no doubt, no question, that the mystery of God is of such magnitude that we, mere mortals, lack the cognizant ability to fully understand the greatness of our Creator. The created cannot possibly grasp how or why it was created. Can we actually say we, the created, have God all figured out and we have all the answers? Of course we can’t. Oh, we claim we do, we claim to have the great “Revelation”, but in reality, I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of comprehending our Creator. Oneness Pentecostals are fond of saying, “I believe in One God who is revealed as Father, Son and Holy Ghost”. Wow, what a revelation. The same one embraced by the AOG. The concept of One God cannot be summed up in a short snippet of a sentence. All the volumes of the world could not contain the acts of a man called Jesus… how in the world do we think we could ever understand the concept of God? (John 21:25)

I’ll tell you how. “In the beginning God….”. We understand God, not through our study, not through our education, but we understand God through faith. The same faith through which we are saved is the faith that allows us to understand God. Faith lets us accept God as GOD, with no complex explanation as to Who and What He is. I believe in ONE GOD. That’s all I need to know. That’s really all there is to know about God. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deu 6:4 Our God is ONE. Isn’t that enough to know. How is He one? How can He be One when there are three that “bear record in heaven”? (I John 5:7). How can ONE be three? How can THREE be ONE? I don’t know! It defies all logic. But, yet there it is. One God in three Beings. Or THREE Beings in ONE GOD. But, God doesn’t have to be logical . He is God. He is One God.

It seems to me that, in our never-ending search for truth, we have forgotten about KNOWING GOD, and have gone off in search of knowing ABOUT God. I don’t have to know ABOUT God, faith takes care of that. What I want is to know God as Paul desired to know Him. How did Paul want to know Him? There it is in Philippians 3:9- I don’t need to know God through my own righteousness or my careful study- but I want to know Him “….through the FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by FAITH….”

When we know God BY FAITH, then we can know Him as the One who spoke “Let there be Light….” We can know Him by faith as the One who led the children of Israel, and who walked the shores of the Galilee. By FAITH we can know Him as He who died, was buried, ad rose again the 3rd day. By faith, we know Him as the One who descended on the day of Pentecost and gave birth to the church that bears His Name. By FAITH, we know Him to be the One who will return to earth one day to receive unto Himself His Bride. I don’t need to know God analytically, I want to know Him personally, as Paul desired to know Him, in “…. the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Phil.3:10-11).
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Last edited by OneAccord; 07-04-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:57 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Knowing God....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneAccord View Post
Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Sometimes I wonder if we Oneness Pentecostals are trying to figure God out rather than just KNOWING Him. Are we placing greater empahsis on knowing ABOUT God than we are on really knowing Him? I’ve thought about this a lot over the years, but as I read through the thread about Bro. Bernards book, I’m beginning to wonder if there are any two Oneness believers who, in fact, believe or understand Oneness the same way? We all believe in ONE God. In fact, I’ve never, ever met a Pentecostal believer, or any Christian believer for that matter, that actually believes in more than one God.

The Articles of Faith: of Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ starts with these words: “We believe in the One ever-living, eternal God…”

The 16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God contains these words: “The ONE TRUE GOD….”

Even the Southern Baptists say: “There is one and only one true and living God…”

So, at least, fundamentally, virtually every Christian group states emphatically that they believe in One God. True, as we dig deeper into each groups beliefs, differences begin to emerge. But on the surface, we all state the same thing: We believe in ONE GOD. Its when each groups attempt to differentiate themselves from other groups that we encounter differences. We analyze our beliefs, we study them, expound them, we explain them. We write book after book, study guide after study guide to assert we believe in ONE GOD- a fact that is summed up quite well with the first words in our belief in ONE GOD.

The Book of Genesis begins with these words: “In the beginning, God….” No lengthy discourse to prove the existence of God. No introduction, no careful analytical study to prove His existence. Just “God”. No explanations of what or who God is. Just “God”. God is the subject of all 66 Books of the Bible, yet, in those first 4 words of the Bible , God is…well, God is just “GOD”. Over time though, countless sermons have been preached to prove there is but One God. Books and study materials have been written to assert the belief that God is one. Yet, I find it interesting that there is no “Godhead Section” in the entirety of the Bible itself. Sure, there are smatterings of comments regarding the mystery of the Godhead, but, where is the section that brings it all together in one volume or one section that explains the Godhead in minute detail that leaves the reader to unequivocally conclude that there is but One God? Well, there is none….

Why is that? Because there is only ONE GOD. We define Him differently. We understand Him differently. I will go on record as to state that I cannot fathom the depths of the “mystery of godliness” as Paul puts it in 1 Tim 3:16. Here, Paul says: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. There is no doubt, no question, that the mystery of God is of such magnitude that we, mere mortals, lack the cognizant ability to fully understand the greatness of our Creator. The created cannot possibly grasp how or why it was created. Can we actually say we, the created, have God all figured out and we have all the answers? Of course we can’t. Oh, we claim we do, we claim to have the great “Revelation”, but in reality, I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of comprehending our Creator. Oneness Pentecostals are fond of saying, “I believe in One God who is revealed as Father, Son and Holy Ghost”. Wow, what a revelation. The same one embraced by the AOG. The concept of One God cannot be summed up in a short snippet of a sentence. All the volumes of the world could not contain the acts of a man called Jesus… how in the world do we think we could ever understand the concept of God? (John 21:25)

I’ll tell you how. “In the beginning God….”. We understand God, not through our study, not through our education, but we understand God through faith. The same faith through which we are saved is the faith that allows us to understand God. Faith lets us accept God as GOD, with no complex explanation as to Who and What He is. I believe in ONE GOD. That’s all I need to know. That’s really all there is to know about God. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deu 6:4 Our God is ONE. Isn’t that enough to know. How is He one? How can He be One when there are three that “bear record in heaven”? (I John 5:7). How can ONE be three? How can THREE be ONE? I don’t know! It defies all logic. But, yet there it is. One God in three Beings. Or THREE Beings in ONE GOD. But, God doesn’t have to be logical . He is God. He is One God.

It seems to me that, in our never-ending search for truth, we have forgotten about KNOWING GOD, and have gone off in search of knowing ABOUT God. I don’t have to know ABOUT God, faith takes care of that. What I want is to know God as Paul desired to know Him. How did Paul want to know Him? There it is in Philippians 3:9- I don’t need to know God through my own righteousness or my careful study- but I want to know Him “….through the FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by FAITH….”

When we know God BY FAITH, then we can know Him as the One who spoke “Let there be Light….” We can know Him by faith as the One who led the children of Israel, and who walked the shores of the Galilee. By FAITH we can know Him as He who died, was buried, ad rose again the 3rd day. By faith, we know Him as the One who descended on the day of Pentecost and gave birth to the church that bears His Name. By FAITH, we know Him to be the One who will return to earth one day to receive unto Himself His Bride. I don’t need to know God analytically, I want to know Him personally, as Paul desired to know Him, in “…. the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Phil.3:10-11).
I want to be more hungry for God and for His Presence.
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:10 AM
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Re: Knowing God....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneAccord View Post
Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Sometimes I wonder if we Oneness Pentecostals are trying to figure God out rather than just KNOWING Him. Are we placing greater empahsis on knowing ABOUT God than we are on really knowing Him? I’ve thought about this a lot over the years, but as I read through the thread about Bro. Bernards book, I’m beginning to wonder if there are any two Oneness believers who, in fact, believe or understand Oneness the same way? We all believe in ONE God. In fact, I’ve never, ever met a Pentecostal believer, or any Christian believer for that matter, that actually believes in more than one God.

The Articles of Faith: of Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ starts with these words: “We believe in the One ever-living, eternal God…”

The 16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God contains these words: “The ONE TRUE GOD….”

Even the Southern Baptists say: “There is one and only one true and living God…”

So, at least, fundamentally, virtually every Christian group states emphatically that they believe in One God. True, as we dig deeper into each groups beliefs, differences begin to emerge. But on the surface, we all state the same thing: We believe in ONE GOD. Its when each groups attempt to differentiate themselves from other groups that we encounter differences. We analyze our beliefs, we study them, expound them, we explain them. We write book after book, study guide after study guide to assert we believe in ONE GOD- a fact that is summed up quite well with the first words in our belief in ONE GOD.

The Book of Genesis begins with these words: “In the beginning, God….” No lengthy discourse to prove the existence of God. No introduction, no careful analytical study to prove His existence. Just “God”. No explanations of what or who God is. Just “God”. God is the subject of all 66 Books of the Bible, yet, in those first 4 words of the Bible , God is…well, God is just “GOD”. Over time though, countless sermons have been preached to prove there is but One God. Books and study materials have been written to assert the belief that God is one. Yet, I find it interesting that there is no “Godhead Section” in the entirety of the Bible itself. Sure, there are smatterings of comments regarding the mystery of the Godhead, but, where is the section that brings it all together in one volume or one section that explains the Godhead in minute detail that leaves the reader to unequivocally conclude that there is but One God? Well, there is none….

Why is that? Because there is only ONE GOD. We define Him differently. We understand Him differently. I will go on record as to state that I cannot fathom the depths of the “mystery of godliness” as Paul puts it in 1 Tim 3:16. Here, Paul says: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. There is no doubt, no question, that the mystery of God is of such magnitude that we, mere mortals, lack the cognizant ability to fully understand the greatness of our Creator. The created cannot possibly grasp how or why it was created. Can we actually say we, the created, have God all figured out and we have all the answers? Of course we can’t. Oh, we claim we do, we claim to have the great “Revelation”, but in reality, I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of comprehending our Creator. Oneness Pentecostals are fond of saying, “I believe in One God who is revealed as Father, Son and Holy Ghost”. Wow, what a revelation. The same one embraced by the AOG. The concept of One God cannot be summed up in a short snippet of a sentence. All the volumes of the world could not contain the acts of a man called Jesus… how in the world do we think we could ever understand the concept of God? (John 21:25)

I’ll tell you how. “In the beginning God….”. We understand God, not through our study, not through our education, but we understand God through faith. The same faith through which we are saved is the faith that allows us to understand God. Faith lets us accept God as GOD, with no complex explanation as to Who and What He is. I believe in ONE GOD. That’s all I need to know. That’s really all there is to know about God. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deu 6:4 Our God is ONE. Isn’t that enough to know. How is He one? How can He be One when there are three that “bear record in heaven”? (I John 5:7). How can ONE be three? How can THREE be ONE? I don’t know! It defies all logic. But, yet there it is. One God in three Beings. Or THREE Beings in ONE GOD. But, God doesn’t have to be logical . He is God. He is One God.

It seems to me that, in our never-ending search for truth, we have forgotten about KNOWING GOD, and have gone off in search of knowing ABOUT God. I don’t have to know ABOUT God, faith takes care of that. What I want is to know God as Paul desired to know Him. How did Paul want to know Him? There it is in Philippians 3:9- I don’t need to know God through my own righteousness or my careful study- but I want to know Him “….through the FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by FAITH….”

When we know God BY FAITH, then we can know Him as the One who spoke “Let there be Light….” We can know Him by faith as the One who led the children of Israel, and who walked the shores of the Galilee. By FAITH we can know Him as He who died, was buried, ad rose again the 3rd day. By faith, we know Him as the One who descended on the day of Pentecost and gave birth to the church that bears His Name. By FAITH, we know Him to be the One who will return to earth one day to receive unto Himself His Bride. I don’t need to know God analytically, I want to know Him personally, as Paul desired to know Him, in “…. the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Phil.3:10-11).
A great article, OneAccord! In reading all of the many "explanations" of the Oneness of God posted here on AFF, I have come to the conclusion that very, very few of the common persons that sit in the church pews of OP churches can even start to understand the "deep, theological, hi-brow definitions" posted by many. For instance....how many minds does God have, how many personalities, how much flesh? Is He really spirit or is He in fact flesh? Just spirit part of the time and flesh the rest?

What has happened to "the simplicity of the Gospel"?

I agree! Instead of trying to "know Him" we have tried to "grow Him" into whatever we perceive Him to be in our own minds.

The scripture, in fact said it is a mystery, and to all of the great minds, heh, it's still a mystery!

Now go ahead and explain to me and OneAccord why it's no longer a mystery!

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Old 07-04-2011, 12:14 PM
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Re: Knowing God....

when I was trinitarian, I remember praying to the father, then to the son, then to the holy spirit. I hear trinitarians refer to them as separate beings. oneness may not have a perfect understanding of the incarnation, but I believe we have a better understanding of god and by knowing him better, a greater faith.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:23 PM
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OneAccord OneAccord is offline
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Re: Knowing God....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
when I was trinitarian, I remember praying to the father, then to the son, then to the holy spirit. I hear trinitarians refer to them as separate beings. oneness may not have a perfect understanding of the incarnation, but I believe we have a better understanding of god and by knowing him better, a greater faith.

True and I heard something along these lines recently in a Oneness Pentecostal church....

"Father God, we have gathered here to worhip you, Lord. We want you to have your way, Jesus. Move among us, Holy Ghost, to bless, save, heal and deliver. In Jesus Name, Amen."

True, brother. Knowing HIM better gives us greater faith.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:40 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Knowing God....

While its true we probably dont fully grasp the concepts we teach concerning God it is our sacred duty to teach them as scripture presents them. We do know what "one" means. That is the starting point. I have heard Trins within the last week preaching about God loving God and the Holy Spirit loving THEM BOTH. So yes I believe Trinitarianism multiplies God and Oneness defines him as truly one.

As far as knowing God in intimacy thats another thing. We should be taught that God IS and that he is a REWARDER of them that DILIGENTLY seek HIM (not them).

If we draw near to God he will draw near to us. Many having a thelogical conception of God sadly have no person reality with him. That does not mean it helps to throw away doctrine. If true doctrine is obeyed from the heart it will bring revelation from Jesus Christ and the fellowship we seek.

There used to be an Eddie Jones tract titled "Dont Get Hung Up On Doctrine Obey it".
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