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  #11  
Old 09-08-2010, 09:01 PM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
I am having a hard time trying to factor in "personal repsonsibility" in making serious, life altering decisions.

It really, really frustrates and annoy me when things continue to go bad when I have the personal power to stop the madness so to speak.


So when it looks bad, and when things go bad, I am the one responsible for my life and my life's decisions.

What about the God Factor? No one cares about the God Factor when it comes to my personal repsonsibilites.


When is He responsible and when is it ever acceptable to "place the responsibility for bad" on God?

Never! I know this in my head and in my heart. Yet I am frustrated.


I am supposed to live my life in a way that pleases Him-- including listening to and obeying the godly advice of people like my Pastor.

So I am struggling financially-- still don't see a clear end in sight, and I think I am going to go against the advice I was given and seek employment overseas.


Of course it does not sit well to think this, type this or say this.

No, I haven't spoke with him about this.

But I am tired.

Nothing is working out in a way where I can make financial progress.

I can make it paycheck to paycheck.

Maybe in a few months, I'll be able to start putting some towards paying off my nearly 50K in debts-- but if the current trends continue, there will be some other crisis. If not immediately, it will come sooner or later, something to deter my financial well being.


It will be much quicker for me to pay off my debts and move on with my life in a half a year then to be continued to be saddled with this for however how long it takes.


Who will pay my bills?

Did God step in and stop my foreclosure?

How about the other financial stuff that is on my record-- where is He?

How come no one wants to forgive me of my debts? I've already forgiven so many people, so many times, concerning so many issues. I have forgiven them.

Where is the guy that gives the advice to not do this or not do that?

Maybe he wants to pay me bills for me.



Why do I feel like my hands are tied?

I feel like I am just plain lost and that my efforts to seek God and a closer relationship with Him are not only vain, but costly-- which makes what I'm doing, or maybe the way I am going about doing what I'm doing stupid and foolish.


Like I know God cares and loves. He provides. He blesses. He lifts up.

But if He is Sovereign, He took my job away knowing that I would not be able to pay off my debts without it. He knew that a couple years later that I would be somewhere in Florida, wondering how I could have messed my life up financially so badly when it could have been different if He had just let me keep my job. He knew that when I would seek advice on going overseas, I would be advised against itm, thus setting up my life for more financial ruin and even legal issues-- all of which could have been avoided.

Honestly, I really know how I can fix this even now or how to have avoided all of this from the get go.


It just makes me so frustrated and angry!

My life is all my fault-- it's all my responsibility, but what about God?

Where is HE in this?


Nothing makes any sense and I am just tired of all the BS that could have been avoided!

The last couple of years have been utter lunacy! Pretty much, I have failed at life, and that miserably.

He's God. I'm man. He's my Creator-- who am I to demand anything of Him. I won't.

I will tell Him that I am tired and I am done with going in this direction.
You have to get sick and tired of a thing before you will do the difficult work of removing it from your life.
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For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)


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  #12  
Old 09-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Dedicated Mind Dedicated Mind is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

forget about trying to figure out God's will and what pastor's are counseling and do what's in your best financial interest. God will always be there for you, so do what's in your financial interest. Don't blame God for your problems.
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2010, 10:31 PM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Jermyn,

So sorry to hear of your difficulties the past couple of years. I do not believe that God's word tells us that we must get permission from our pastor in order to make decisions regarding employment or moving locations.

Maybe it is because although I was raised in an OP church environment, my parents never sought counsel on major life decisions. They simply prayed, made a decision and let the pastor know.

That is how I have proceeded as an adult in my own life. I would pray about your situation and if you don't feel a NO coming from God (not the pastor), I would proceed and let the pastor know what you have decided.

If he rants and raves, I would understand that he is responding as a disappointed human being and I would not be worried about any "curses or judgements" coming upon you.
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2010, 05:05 AM
ImThankful ImThankful is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
I recommend Dave Ramsey's book, "Total Money Makeover", changing location will not change behavior. Dave gives the steps to get out of debt and to stay out, remember: "... if you will live like no one else..." to get out of debt then: "...you can live like no one else..." debt free. "Stop listening to your broke...friends..."

You can be debt free, no car payments, no house payments, and sooner that you might imagine. But it is hard for a while.

My son is teaching these lessons at the apostolic church he and his wife attend. He is 24 yrs old and just paid off his house that he bought 2 yrs ago. It can happen if you are willing to buckle down and pay the price.
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2010, 07:29 AM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by ImThankful View Post
My son is teaching these lessons at the apostolic church he and his wife attend. He is 24 yrs old and just paid off his house that he bought 2 yrs ago. It can happen if you are willing to buckle down and pay the price.
That's what I mean, there is a cultural mindset of debt in this country, it is promoted by the banks that sell debt.

We can, "live our wage" pay cash and not be a "slave to the lenders", Dave's books are the very best. They show exactly how the strapped person or family can get out of debt and stay out.

We found Dave Ramsey fifteen years ago, when we were broke and struggling, worked thru the program, began to pay cash, stopped making debt (its amazing, if you stop borrowing, you will eventually have no debt). No car payments or credit card debt for years, paid off children's private school in cash, paid college, three college graduates, nice house will be debt free soon.

Two married children, and one just out of college one year ago, none of them have credit cards, paying cash, no car payments, minor college loan soon to be paid off. They have a tremedous advantage, they got it early, and can't believe folks have tens of thousands on credit cards. But no matter, you can be debt free no matter the amount in two to seven years and live debt free for the rest of you life.

Get the book, stop doing the same things, denial won't get you there, action will!!! Credit card companies are the scum of the earth, but don't do consolidation, nor consumer debt companies, you can do it yourself, "Total Money Makeover" by Dave Ramsey will show you step by step exactly how to do it.

Find a one of his training programs in a church near you, it will give you the basics and a kick in the seat of the pants, the book is the guide. Follow the steps religiously, tells how to deal will creditors, how not to panic, and never ever give them access to your bank account or post dated checks. Then after you get out of debt, you can accumlate wealth at the same rate as you went into debt, have money to give to causes that you believe in, support kingdom work, what a way to live!!!!
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Last edited by crakjak; 09-09-2010 at 07:46 AM.
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2010, 08:02 AM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Jermyn, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I can relate, and so can a lot of other people. For some people it's finances, for some it's family issues, for others it's health problems... for some it's something else or a combination of the above. No matter what we do we can't seem to get a break in one area or another-one thing after another happens. Some things we can take responsibility for and others just aren't our faults any more than a heart attack is the fault of the healthy 42 year old who ate right and exercised regularly but had bad genes.

It's easy for people to judge certain circumstances and say "you should just..." but some people have done all of that and still have the same problems. What I finally decided in my own life is that:
-I refuse to accept that when things go bad, it is my fault, but when things go good it is God's fault. Some things go good because of me, and some things go bad because of me. I refuse to beat myself over the head if I can't also pat myself on the back now and then.
-Some things, good or bad, are just life.
-Some things that look bad at first turn out to be good. Some things that look good at first are really bad. I'm not omniscient to know at first which is which, but I can trust One who is to see me through.
-There is one area of my life that just never goes right. OK, I can live with that as long as I stay focused on all that is going right in the other areas.
-I can't listen to other people talking about how good they have it and telling me what I should be doing better, unsolicited. Those people are Job's comforters, not encouragers.
-Some things are my fault, some things are just part of life. God didn't promise to make my life perfect, He just promised to be with me through whatever happened and make something good out of it no matter how bad it got, if I love and follow Him.
-A whole lot of the bad things that happen to me are the result of people, not God. When Adam accepted free will in the Garden, God stepped back and gave it to him. He won't make the banker give me a loan or force the thief not to rob me any more than He will require a person to be saved. It's their choice what they do or don't do, result of Eden. It's only my choice how I handle their choices and make my own, result of Calvary or Eden.... again, my choice.

So there is my theory of life in a nutshell, I suppose.

Some of the greatest people in history have appeared to be total failures at some point. A lack of personal success doesn't mean failure. I'd like to meet Abraham Lincoln sometime. When he died, the US was miserably divided, the Civil War had only been over 6 days, many people in the south still lived in slavery, many homes were without a father or son, many soldiers were wounded, their lives forever altered in service to their country, and parts of the south were completely decimated. He probably wouldn't have won reelection if half the US been in secession at the time of the election. (And we think today's presidents make a mess of things!) Was he a failure?
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2010, 08:18 AM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
That's what I mean, there is a cultural mindset of debt in this country, it is promoted by the banks that sell debt.

We can, "live our wage" pay cash and not be a "slave to the lenders", Dave's books are the very best. They show exactly how the strapped person or family can get out of debt and stay out.
I like Dave Ramsey's concepts... BUT... I graduated with a BA in the early 90s. It was 12 more years before I made $20,000 in one year-before taxes. I bought a house and got laid off. I tried to sell a house and had a buyer. The Realtor, unbeknownst to me, refused to discuss the house with others after the offer, even though the sale wasn't finalized. The buyer backed out. Decent house payment, little income, no prospects... Not all of that was my fault. I was debt free other than the house, and the house payment was only about $600/mo. I had started with money in the bank, enough to cover six months' expenses. But $600/mo is a lot of money when you don't have an income, and bank accounts eventually run dry. So I can understand Jermyn's frustrations. Sometimes people do the right things but still deal with bad situations.
(I had about two months until I would have defaulted when I got a good job. The house sold at the same time. Things are right side up again. And I learned some valuable lessons in the process.)
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What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2010, 08:30 AM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

I have a few thoughts regarding this. First of all, I believe God wants you to be financially free from this stress you are under. That being said, I think He would want you to be proactive and do what is in your own financial interests. If you give the responsibility to your pastor (or whoever) to decide where you should work, etc. You are giving up your personal responsibility. I think you should look at your pastor's words as words of advice, but not as gospel law. And then make the right decision.

Secondly, although not everyone is in as bad of financial shape as you are, I think it is good to take into consideration that many cards are stacked against the working class when it comes to getting ahead. If you study some economics, you will find this to be so. The system is set up that makes it hard for you to get ahead. The system was put into place by a bunch of rich guys. That doesn't help your personal situation as much as it might help you to blame God less and know it isn't all your own fault.

Now, the key is to do what it takes to dig out. Not easy, but doable if you make the right decisions.

Educate yourself. Godspeed.
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Last edited by ILG; 09-09-2010 at 08:32 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2010, 09:03 AM
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missourimary missourimary is offline
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Totally agree, ILG. And Jermyn, I missed the part about being able to work overseas. If you think it's the right thing to do, go for it.

Especially if it's a government contracted position, check and see if there would be a penalty should you need to return stateside sooner than planned. If there is, set aside for it, just in case. I know several people that have accepted overseas jobs. Not one of the ones I know was disappointed.
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What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2010, 09:43 AM
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Re: Personal Responsibility

Quote:
We found Dave Ramsey fifteen years ago, when we were broke and struggling, worked thru the program, began to pay cash, stopped making debt (its amazing, if you stop borrowing, you will eventually have no debt). No car payments or credit card debt for years, paid off children's private school in cash, paid college, three college graduates, nice house will be debt free.
Keep in mind there is good debt and bad debt. Good debt gives you cash flow (the money makes money for you) and bad debt takes cash from you. There is debt that is good, but usually when you are steeped in credit card debt and getting foreclosed on, the person usually has bad debt.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb

When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~

Last edited by ILG; 09-09-2010 at 09:46 AM.
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