Bro Epley's Racine Apostolic Church Camp Meeting

[Scott Pitta]

To the clergy ? Not when I was a church board member and treasurer. The clergy did not handle the money or have the final say in the budget.

If the funds were specific to foreign missions, that is where it went. The budget was controlled by the board. The senior pastor was chairman of the board.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

To the clergy ? Not when I was a church board member and treasurer. The clergy did not handle the money or have the final say in the budget.

If the funds were specific to foreign missions, that is where it went. The budget was controlled by the board. The senior pastor was chairman of the board.

Okay Scott. I’m not picking on you, I’m just trying to make a point. Was the church that you served on the board of a 501c3 non profit corporation by any chance?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

To the clergy ? Not when I was a church board member and treasurer. The clergy did not handle the money or have the final say in the budget.

If the funds were specific to foreign missions, that is where it went. The budget was controlled by the board. The senior pastor was chairman of the board.

Where did the money end up?

[Scott Pitta]

Yes, it is a 501c3.

Every month a full financial report was provided to the members of the board accounting for every dollar that came in and where every dollar was spent. At the annual business meeting, that data was compiled into an annual report and distributed to the members and to the public.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Yes, it is a 501c3.

Every month a full financial report was provided to the members of the board accounting for every dollar that came in and where every dollar was spent. At the annual business meeting, that data was compiled into an annual report and distributed to the members and to the public.

Thank you Scott. Now follow me while I go legalistic on you.

That 501c3 nonprofit designation represents a legal entity. It is legally recognized as an individual in the state of Wisconsin or whichever state it is incorporated in.

As such, do you believe that that corporation is part of the Church?
Will it be taken in the rapture?
Is it part of the bride of Christ?

Of course not!

So it can’t possibly be the Church.

What it is, is a faux church. It is an imposter that is created by men to satisfy the government (IRS).

So in my example, a member of the Church put money in the plate. He or she was a member of THE CHURCH. Not a fake church that is incorporated as a legal entity to get around paying taxes. So, in my example, the true Church actually became poorer when the offering plate was passed. The faux church became richer. That is my point.

Now the example you tried to make, which is not IMHO legitimate, would be exemplified by the New Testament Christians selling all they had and putting the money at the feet of the apostles. In that case the money still stayed in the Church, because it was distributed to all who had need. It didn’t become property of a corporation that was not the Church.

That is the difference. The Church gave and the Church received in the New Testament. The offering went to the needy. Which is what Jesus said in Matthew 25 is the same as giving to Him.

We are often told at offering time to give as unto the Lord. Jesus told us exactly how to do that in Matthew 25. Giving a drink of water to a child made His list. Giving to a pastor didn’t. Clothing the naked made His list. Giving to a faux church did not.

We have made modifications to His list that qualifies as giving as unto the Lord.

And that’s what I’m trying to get you to understand. The church that is the 501c3 organization, is not the Church, the bride of Christ.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

So . . .

You are saying that the Church didn’t give the money.

You are saying that the Church received the money.

I’m pretty sure you’ve got that backwards. But a lot of people do. I believe you are confused about who the real Church is.

Would someone else like to give their opinion?

The (real) church is not a 501(c)3 non-profit corporation (a business masquerading as a non profit religious charitable organisation). The real church doesn't take up a collection FROM the saints except as a collection FOR the saints. Any corporation calling itself a church is technically committing fraud and misrepresentation. Mostly in ignorance. However, lack of knowledge (ignorance) is destructive to God's people.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The (real) church is not a 501(c)3 non-profit corporation (a business masquerading as a non profit religious charitable organisation). The real church doesn't take up a collection FROM the saints except as a collection FOR the saints. Any corporation calling itself a church is technically committing fraud and misrepresentation. Mostly in ignorance. However, lack of knowledge (ignorance) is destructive to God's people.

Amen Esaias. I’ve noticed for years that the identity of the Church is being overtaken by the corporation of the church. It’s similar to the government. The government is supposed to be of the people, for the people, and by the people. But most of the people see the government as a totally separate entity that doesn’t represent their interests or perform their wishes.

I see the same thing happening in (especially larger) churches. The church is more and more being seen as a separate entity from the members. Scott demonstrates this very effectively. We are (at least we should be) the Church. But we seem content to allow a soulless legal corporation to take our place. It can’t end well.

A friend of mine explained it very succinctly. He said when we create a man-made organization, it is to serve us and our purposes. But in reality we ultimately become all about that organization. The end result is that we wind up serving the organization and doing whatever it takes to ensure the survival of that organization. Instead of it serving our purpose, we wind up serving it. We will even create doctrine out of nothing that goes against scripture, all to benefit an organization created by men, that has no soul.

It is ironic.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Amen Esaias. I’ve noticed for years that the identity of the Church is being overtaken by the corporation of the church. It’s similar to the government. The government is supposed to be of the people, for the people, and by the people. But most of the people see the government as a totally separate entity that doesn’t represent their interests or perform their wishes.

I see the same thing happening in (especially larger) churches. The church is more and more being seen as a separate entity from the members. Scott demonstrates this very effectively. We are (at least we should be) the Church. But we seem content to allow a soulless legal corporation to take our place. It can’t end well.

A friend of mine explained it very succinctly. He said when we create a man-made organization, it is to serve us and our purposes. But in reality we ultimately become all about that organization. The end result is that we wind up serving the organization and doing whatever it takes to ensure the survival of that organization. Instead of it serving our purpose, we wind up serving it. We will even create doctrine out of nothing that goes against scripture, all to benefit an organization created by men, that has no soul.

It is ironic.

Observe....

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Amen Esaias. I’ve noticed for years that the identity of the Church is being overtaken by the corporation of the church. It’s similar to the government. The government is supposed to be of the people, for the people, and by the people. But most of the people see the government as a totally separate entity that doesn’t represent their interests or perform their wishes.

I see the same thing happening in (especially larger) churches. The church is more and more being seen as a separate entity from the members. Scott demonstrates this very effectively. We are (at least we should be) the Church. But we seem content to allow a soulless legal corporation to take our place. It can’t end well.

A friend of mine explained it very succinctly. He said when we create a man-made organization, it is to serve us and our purposes. But in reality we ultimately become all about that organization. The end result is that we wind up serving the organization and doing whatever it takes to ensure the survival of that organization. Instead of it serving our purpose, we wind up serving it. We will even create doctrine out of nothing that goes against scripture, all to benefit an organization created by men, that has no soul.

It is ironic.

[mont.preterist]

What was funny about this campmeeting is that Bro Morton preached against TV, (Didn't know anybody did that anymore) and that church was live streaming it on YOUTUBE!!!!!!


bWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh the irony!!!

Got a friend of mine that went to the meeting, he saw Bro F....... from Cali there. He told him that he had been on youtube and this Bro F started to rebuke him. Then this friend told him that he had seen that Bro F was on youtube from this meeting!!!! Bro F..... about went ballistic.

This is as funny as it can be when you think about it.

So Bro E has a campmeeting and videotapes and livestreams everything on Youtube, the ultracons go thinking that they are standing for something because they preach against TV but still want to preach at the camp meetings.....

Bunch of WPF folks show up who supposedly got out of the UPCI for the use of video and broadcasting on TV (So's their reason went!) and Bro E videos them all and livestreams it!!!!!

Oh my stomach hurts from laughing!!!!