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Old 10-22-2013, 09:36 AM
Farfel Farfel is offline
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Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

Here is an article from the April 20, 1918 edition of the AG's "The Weekly Evangel" written by Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue."


CONFESSION OF FAITH
"So then faith comes by hearing, and
hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17.
It has been reported lately from this
city something that may create a wrong
impression that I am supporting the
advocators of the "new issue" so-called
in our great blessed revival meetings in
this city. This is absolutely not so, but
rather contrary. I personally believe
and stand on the blessed written word
of God concerning the great mystery of
godliness, not on the conclusions of men,
nor in their words of strife concerning
God-head teaching, therefore I prayerfully
and humbly confess that I believe
in one God, the Father, the Son and the
Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19.
I believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of
the Father, who is the true God and the
eternal life. 1 John 5:20. 2 John 5.
I believe that there are three that bear
record in heaven the Father, the Word.
(Jesus Christ) and the Holy Ghost and
these three are one. 1 John 5:7.
I believe in the Spirit by which we
are all baptized into one body, whether
we be Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or
free and have been all made to drink
in one Spirit; yea one Lord, one faith,
one baptism, one God and Father of all,
who is above all, and in you all. 1 Cor. 12:13,
and Eph. 4:5-6.
I believe this adorable Three-One God
can be only approached and seen in and
through the person or face of Jesus
Christ. the son. 1 Timothy 6:16. Matthew 11:27.
John 1:18. John 14:7-11.
"For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of
the God-head bodily." Col. 2:9.
I believe in one most glorious eternal
incomprehensible and mysterious Being
of God; and that Jesus Christ the Son,
is the only true and full express image
of His glorious and bright Being. Heb. 1:3.
Col. 1:15-19.
I believe also and practice the emphatic
and definite commandment of
God through the lips of the great apostle
to the Gentiles who said, "and whatsoever
ye do in word or deed, do all in the
name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks
to God and the Father by Him." Col. 3:17. .
Now, "The grace of the Lord Jesus
Christ and the Love of God, and the communion
of the Holy Ghost be with you
all. Amen." 2 Cor. 3:14.
Brethren, "We having the same spirit
of faith, according as it is written, I believe,
and therefore I have spoken; we
also believe and therefore speak! 2 Cor. 4:13.
Dear saints pray for us.
Your brother, sincerely, believes in the truth and the whole truth, as it is in Christ Jesus.
ANDREW D. URSHAN,
"The Old Time Gospel Revival Campaign,"
LOS Angeles, Cal., 1041 South Broadway

Last edited by Farfel; 10-22-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:03 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

This is unfair because it was in his early experience into the Oneness doctrine before he had formulated in his mind and teaching. Please remember it was the Trinitarians who ran them off in Hot Springs. They were expelled if they were to continue preaching the doctrine.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:12 AM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
This is unfair because it was in his early experience into the Oneness doctrine before he had formulated in his mind and teaching. Please remember it was the Trinitarians who ran them off in Hot Springs. They were expelled if they were to continue preaching the doctrine.
And we have been running each other off ever since. What a shame.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:13 AM
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
This is unfair because it was in his early experience into the Oneness doctrine before he had formulated in his mind and teaching. Please remember it was the Trinitarians who ran them off in Hot Springs. They were expelled if they were to continue preaching the doctrine.
It should also be pointed out that NAU was speaking in 1918 as the debate raged about this "new issue" and was leading to the 1919 split where the Oneness people were shown the exit. NAU was seeking to heal the split before it was a split.


Context is key to understanding what he was saying. In the end, He didnt decide to remian with the Trinitarians.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:42 AM
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CC1 CC1 is offline
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

I agree with both Elder Epley and Ferd that this document is not surprising given the date. I think it is clear Andrew Urshan's doctrine evolved from this point.

However it is true it did not evolve to what the UPC church believes today completely.

If you really want to stir things up post some writings by early Oneness pioneers about their belief that trinitarians are still their brothers in Christ vs today!
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:59 AM
Farfel Farfel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I agree with both Elder Epley and Ferd that this document is not surprising given the date. I think it is clear Andrew Urshan's doctrine evolved from this point. However it is true it did not evolve to what the UPC church believes today completely. If you really want to stir things up post some writings by early Oneness pioneers about their belief that trinitarians are still their brothers in Christ vs today!
I wasn't trying to stir things up, I just found it interesting that AU would have written against those that he would later join.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:00 PM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I agree with both Elder Epley and Ferd that this document is not surprising given the date. I think it is clear Andrew Urshan's doctrine evolved from this point.

However it is true it did not evolve to what the UPC church believes today completely.

If you really want to stir things up post some writings by early Oneness pioneers about their belief that trinitarians are still their brothers in Christ vs today!
Truth of the matter is, that Howard Goss would not be accepted in today's UPC. The very organization that he helped to plant.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:10 PM
Farfel Farfel is offline
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Originally Posted by navygoat1998 View Post
Truth of the matter is, that Howard Goss would not be accepted in today's UPC. The very organization that he helped to plant.
A lot of them wouldn't be accepted today.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:12 PM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfel View Post
A lot of them wouldn't be accepted today.
True.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:52 PM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Andrew Urshan denouncing the "new issue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
It should also be pointed out that NAU was speaking in 1918 as the debate raged about this "new issue" and was leading to the 1919 split where the Oneness people were shown the exit. NAU was seeking to heal the split before it was a split.


Context is key to understanding what he was saying. In the end, He didnt decide to remian with the Trinitarians.
Your early Fathers were not treated with much respect by your own brand.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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