Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-11-2013, 05:41 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 236
Angry Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the Bib

Soooo.....

Can someone help me out on some scripture here....

1. I was told by an Apo that; if a child, that is not of the age of accountability dies, and their parents were not saved/born-again that this child goes to hell!?!?!

2. Now if the same whom said this doesn't believe in abortion, as they believe life starts at conception, then by their definition they would have to believe an aborted fetus from sinful parents would also go to hell. <<I'm asking this at breakfast this morning<<


If ANYONE could share some scripture on #1 I would be most thankful!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-11-2013, 05:50 AM
Shawn Shawn is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 523
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

Does any of that sound like love.
__________________
1 Timothy 4:9-10

9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.



John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:01 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 236
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

No, it doesn't sound like love... but then Truth comes hard & sometimes Truth doesn't sound like love....

Scriptural Truth is what I am after on this. I find this so disturbing that I can only see logic in that it is a test to see if I will just go along with whatever they say, or if I will seek out my own Truth.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:07 AM
larrylyates larrylyates is offline
Apostolic Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 700
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Does any of that sound like love.
No it does NOT! his comes from several ideas, none of which are in scripture.
my wife was actually told this by her childhood Pastor, when later in life she lost a child. He wouldn't even perform the funeral. I got a Pastor friend of mine to do it. This was 24 years ago. She lived 22 of those years believing that she'd sent her child to hell because of her then "backslidden" state.

I almost went across the desk at that Pastor.

Perhaps the best known passage actually comes from the OT and the life of King David. He was at the time, fairy "backslidden himself. Adultery. Murder. Living in sin. God told him that as a result the child would be lost to them. Most of you know the story. But watch this: David went ino fasting, prayer and mourning with sackcloth and ashes, the whole shebang. Yet AFTER the child's death what happened?

2 Samuel 12:22-24 (King James Version)
22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.

Even after all of this David was known as a man after God's own heart. He knew instinctively that he would see this child again. A child conceived in sin to backslidden parents. Just saying!

Anyone see it differently? Can you give any scripture for it. It's a horrid idea.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:12 AM
Dichotomy Girl's Avatar
Dichotomy Girl Dichotomy Girl is offline
You used to call me Michlow


 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 281
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

I believe that they take that idea from 1 Corinthians 7:14:

14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. (i.e. that at least one parent has to be "believing" or the children are unclean)

In my 10 years as an Apostolic, I only heard one lay person (and no one in the ministry) espouse this belief, so I do not think it is a common stance among Apostolics.
__________________
“There's such a lot of different Annes in me. I sometimes think that is why I'm such a troublesome person. If I was just the one Anne it would be ever so much more comfortable, but then it wouldn't be half so interesting.”

― L.M. Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:24 AM
NewbieMisfits NewbieMisfits is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 236
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

I hate to say this, I honestly do... but then again the Truth is ugly sometimes.... This has come from a UPCI (mentor/liaison) from a Church we have come to love will all our heart. Regardless this is disturbing and doesn't separate our love for the Church, not that I believe this, but what we ask is what is the status of the heart of the two that do believe this?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:08 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,149
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

It seems harsh, but were children ever spared God's judgement in the scriptures? Sodom and Gamorah? Kids among the wiped out, even if they were "innocent". The Flood? Children wiped out despite "innocence". Death Angel in Exodus and other times it passed through the camp? Children wiped out despite their "innocence".

I'd like to see a good scriptural position, rather than emotional position, on why children are exempt from judgment if they die before this "age of accountability" (which seems completely made up btw). I cannot fathom the idea of children from birth dying and finding themselves in judgment, but God didn't spare them in the examples set in the OT. If things changed due to the NT and Grace I would like to see a clear scriptural source for it.

Otherwise it just leaves even more of a weight upon parents to not live a sinful life. Their kids' will pay the price not only in this life, but in the next as well.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:35 AM
bishoph's Avatar
bishoph bishoph is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 952
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

This teaching is a hard teaching that MAY actually have some biblical basis. IMO it is not a popular doctrine and is most likely NOT promoted often. Its basis comes from types and shadows......
Example 1.
In Genesis, God told Noah to build an ark because he was going to destroy the world. The ark was the ONLY way of escaping the judgment of God. When the flood destroyed the earth all people who were not on the ark, men, women, boys, girls, and even infants were destroyed. It could be said that had their parents gotten on the ark the children would have been saved.

If the earth was a type of the world......and
If the ark was a type of the church.....and
If the flood was a type of the judgment of God (Hell)
Then children would be lost because their parents did not get on the ark

Example 2.
Also in Genesis we find the story of Sodom & Gomorrah. The city being wicked, God told Lot and his family to leave because he was going to destroy the city. Only Lot and his two daughters escaped (his wife left but looked back) ALL others were burned in the fiery destruction including children......had their parents been willing to leave.....the children would have been spared with their parents.

If Sodom & Gomorrah is a type of the world......and
If leaving S&G is a type of leaving the world and entering the church (safety).....and
If the fire and brimstone that rained down on S&G is a type of the judgment (hell) on the wicked
Then children and infants were lost because their parents refused to leave S&G.

There are other examples that some use to back up this teaching, such as the fact that God had his people Israel kill whole nations of people including (with specific commandment to) killing all the infants and children.

While I do not endorse this teaching, I do see where it could have some merit. We live in a world where people don't want to accept responsibility for anything they do, and being given the privilege and responsibility of a child is one of the most important gifts we can be given. If people really understood that their actions DO affect others we would be more careful with the examples we set.

Also, assuming this teaching were true......this sin would be IMO no greater than any other sin that one has committed and as such would be forgiven when a person came to Christ. So just like those who deal with the guilt of an abortion, or any other sin the guilt ends with salvation.

Again, before anybody decides to hang me or shoot me.....I am just giving you the basis for why some teach this doctrine.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:37 AM
bishoph's Avatar
bishoph bishoph is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 952
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehawk013 View Post
It seems harsh, but were children ever spared God's judgement in the scriptures? Sodom and Gamorah? Kids among the wiped out, even if they were "innocent". The Flood? Children wiped out despite "innocence". Death Angel in Exodus and other times it passed through the camp? Children wiped out despite their "innocence".

I'd like to see a good scriptural position, rather than emotional position, on why children are exempt from judgment if they die before this "age of accountability" (which seems completely made up btw). I cannot fathom the idea of children from birth dying and finding themselves in judgment, but God didn't spare them in the examples set in the OT. If things changed due to the NT and Grace I would like to see a clear scriptural source for it.

Otherwise it just leaves even more of a weight upon parents to not live a sinful life. Their kids' will pay the price not only in this life, but in the next as well.
We were posting at the same time
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:40 AM
larrylyates larrylyates is offline
Apostolic Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 700
Re: Newborns & Children go to hell?! What does the

Ezekiel 18:20
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

This verse indicates that the children are NOT held responsible for the sins of the parents, but rather for their own. There is also an implied support for an "age of accountability."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Daily game Apr 29 : Rotate &amp; Roll Players Pack dailygame Daily Game 0 04-29-2012 03:05 AM
It's okay to kill newborns? REALLY??? DaveC519 Political Talk 23 03-07-2012 11:50 AM
View This Christmas Card & A Donation Goes To BC Children's Hospital! Ron Fellowship Hall 3 12-16-2007 10:53 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by james34
- by coksiw
- by MawMaw

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.