Progress??

[ILG]

Something has been weighing on my mind lately and I'm wondering what people's opinions are. Bear with me as I try to write out what I'm thinking....

I am thinking about progress...what it is...how it affects us....whether it's worthwhile etc.

Obvioulsy, some progress affects us immediately and in good ways. Some progress is questionable.

Progress comes in many forms. Let's look at medical progress first. Medicine has made great strides and is wonderful. In the 1970's, if my husband had been diagnosed with testicular cancer as he was this last fall...it would have been a death sentence. But, since he was diagnosed in 2007, he had surgery and radiation and has been given a 90%-95% chance of cure rate. Wonderful! This progress has impacted our lives in an immediate and definite way. On the flip side, medicine is causing us to make huge choices people didn't have to face back years ago. Now, someone with a worse form of cancer may go through terrible chemotherapy just to get a couple of extra months. Maybe it would have been better for some to forego that and pass on in a more peaceful manner. People take so many medications....often with a disatrous effect.

Women have made great strides in the realm of equal rights. Some of this was definately necessary. Women don't have to stay in marriages where they are beaten and abused. Women can earn a living. On the flip side, children are put into day care centers. I watched a video on the equal rights movement and do you know what they were fighting for? That stay at home women get support and that their work is valued as much as working women's work!! I wondered how the feminists of today would view that! Many stay at home women are viewed as being lazy or throwing their lives away. I think in the Christian view, this "progress" is viewed with some happiness and some skepticism.

What about material progress? It seems like the more we progress here, the more we want. When is wanting less the answer?

I have great concerns about the internet and privacy. When I got into the church over 20 years ago, there was great concern over a huge computer in Brussels, Belium. I watched a video that showed how much information is now available and the difference from 10 years ago. It is astronomical! With Hitler in power a mere 60+ years ago, people are sticking their heads in the sand with this. We have no privacy anymore. What would once have been a major concern, people now shrug off.

Anyway....just a few thoughts there.

[CC1]

Algae,

You are correct that there are aspects of "progress" that are indeed scary. For less than one hundred bucks anyone can get on the internet and use a service to find out many personal things about anybody. They can pull up tax records, court documents, etc. Things that 20 years ago would have cost tens of thousands of dollars with a private eye to find out.

You can even use google earth to look at someone's house! I remember way back on the original FCF near its beginning when I thought I was very anonymous an esteemed poster from another country just north of the USA PM'd me with personal information they had found on the open interenet. They had even located pictures of my daughters wedding somewhere online!!!!

When I grew up in Alaska in the 60's and early 70's the population really had some charcters as it was a place for people escaping some circumstance or person to come to. Now with everything tied to social security numbers and documented on the internet I don't think distance means anything anymore.

[rgcraig]

Is there a price to pay for progress?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ILG

Something has been weighing on my mind lately and I'm wondering what people's opinions are. Bear with me as I try to write out what I'm thinking....

I am thinking about progress...what it is...how it affects us....whether it's worthwhile etc.

Obvioulsy, some progress affects us immediately and in good ways. Some progress is questionable.

Progress comes in many forms. Let's look at medical progress first. Medicine has made great strides and is wonderful. In the 1970's, if my husband had been diagnosed with testicular cancer as he was this last fall...it would have been a death sentence. But, since he was diagnosed in 2007, he had surgery and radiation and has been given a 90%-95% chance of cure rate. Wonderful! This progress has impacted our lives in an immediate and definite way. On the flip side, medicine is causing us to make huge choices people didn't have to face back years ago. Now, someone with a worse form of cancer may go through terrible chemotherapy just to get a couple of extra months. Maybe it would have been better for some to forego that and pass on in a more peaceful manner. People take so many medications....often with a disatrous effect.

Women have made great strides in the realm of equal rights. Some of this was definately necessary. Women don't have to stay in marriages where they are beaten and abused. Women can earn a living. On the flip side, children are put into day care centers. I watched a video on the equal rights movement and do you know what they were fighting for? That stay at home women get support and that their work is valued as much as working women's work!! I wondered how the feminists of today would view that! Many stay at home women are viewed as being lazy or throwing their lives away. I think in the Christian view, this "progress" is viewed with some happiness and some skepticism.

What about material progress? It seems like the more we progress here, the more we want. When is wanting less the answer?

I have great concerns about the internet and privacy. When I got into the church over 20 years ago, there was great concern over a huge computer in Brussels, Belium. I watched a video that showed how much information is now available and the difference from 10 years ago. It is astronomical! With Hitler in power a mere 60+ years ago, people are sticking their heads in the sand with this. We have no privacy anymore. What would once have been a major concern, people now shrug off.

Anyway....just a few thoughts there.

Originally Posted by CC1

Algae,

You are correct that there are aspects of "progress" that are indeed scary. For less than one hundred bucks anyone can get on the internet and use a service to find out many personal things about anybody. They can pull up tax records, court documents, etc. Things that 20 years ago would have cost tens of thousands of dollars with a private eye to find out.

You can even use google earth to look at someone's house! I remember way back on the original FCF near its beginning when I thought I was very anonymous an esteemed poster from another country just north of the USA PM'd me with personal information they had found on the open interenet. They had even located pictures of my daughters wedding somewhere online!!!!

When I grew up in Alaska in the 60's and early 70's the population really had some charcters as it was a place for people escaping some circumstance or person to come to. Now with everything tied to social security numbers and documented on the internet I don't think distance means anything anymore.

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Is there a price to pay for progress?

Yes there is a price to pay. It is also sign of the times. I do believe the coming of the Lord is very close.

Thank you Jesus, Rhoni

[iceniez]

I have been thinking about this also.Like you I feel there are some benifits to progress,however what kind of things have we lost ? Our lives are so busy because we have the modern toys that were meant to save time and free us up.We have phones and can be reached any time any where [ if you don't many people think you are a freak or something].My wife and I often visit an area where the Amish live ,they seem so happy, in many ways their culture has been less influenced by time ,I just wonder what we are missing out on relationship wise [with God and our families] because of the influx of progress in our world.Somehow I feel I being robbed of something but I don't know what.

[rgcraig]

I've noticed a couple things in the media and one in a Target ad mentioning the new "in" is "less is more."

I was surprised to see media picking up on it actually.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

When I grew up in Alaska in the 60's and early 70's the population really had some charcters as it was a place for people escaping some circumstance or person to come to. Now with everything tied to social security numbers and documented on the internet I don't think distance means anything anymore.

I don't think distance does mean anything. I hear that now employers are using facebook and myspace to look people up. There is often very personal information out there. There is no privacy!!

[ILG]

have been thinking about this also.Like you I feel there are some benifits to progress,however what kind of things have we lost ? Our lives are so busy because we have the modern toys that were meant to save time and free us up.

It was "meant" to free us up!! But, what have we done?? Use the time to make more money so we can have more things!

We have phones and can be reached any time any where [ if you don't many people think you are a freak or something].My wife and I often visit an area where the Amish live ,they seem so happy, in many ways their culture has been less influenced by time ,I just wonder what we are missing out on relationship wise [with God and our families] because of the influx of progress in our world.Somehow I feel I being robbed of something but I don't know what.

I agree that I feel robbed but this has been a lifelong puzzle to me. I thought I found it when I got into the UPC. I also studied the Amish extensively. I find that the legalism they have pretty much cancels out what they gain in the lifestyle BUT I also think we can live the principles of the lifestyle WITHOUT the legalism. I get very tired of this rat race lifestyle.

[iceniez]

Is 55:2

[ILG]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I've noticed a couple things in the media and one in a Target ad mentioning the new "in" is "less is more."

I was surprised to see media picking up on it actually.

Simplicity movements have been in since the 1970's. I am all for that. However, as a society we are losing things that I don't think can be regained. When I was working with the older population there for a while, I really enjoyed the slower pace. I asked them if things were faster now and they said "Oh, yes"!