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Old 04-20-2010, 10:48 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Baptized, Poured Out, Filled, Received - all same?

It is alleged by some that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is not the same experience as having the Holy Ghost poured upon oneself or as one being "filled" with the Holy Ghost. I think they are one and the same experience.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
This shows that baptism of the Spirit and infilling of the Spirit are synonymous. Jesus said they would experience the baptism of the Spirit in a few days, and when they did, it was said to have filled them.
Act 8:15-16 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (16) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
This shows that the Spirit had not been RECEIVED by the people who believed and were even water baptized by Phillip.

And Acts 10's example of the gentiles speaking on tongues as they were given the Spirit was rephrased by Peter using the same terms we see in Acts 8. So the Spirit falling on people is accompanied with tongues
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Paul repeats this position in Acts 19.
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Paul knew they were believers. But he asked them if they received the Holy Ghost since they believed. We read no evidence that they did not believe what Paul was implying when he asked them, but later find out they knew only John's ministry. For all intents and purposes, Paul assumed they believed in Jesus and knew His teachings when he asked them, for he would have known they had to yet hear of Jesus if he knew they were only disciples of John the baptist. So in Paul's mind, you can be a believer and yet not have experienced RECEIVING OF THE SPIRIT.

Some think the Spirit is "received" as soon as someone is a believer. Not in this case! If it was, why did they believe and require Peter and John to come and lay hands on them that they might receive the Spirit? And the same text says that Spirit being "fallen upon" them is the same thing as saying one receives the Spirit.

So we have Spirit baptism, Spirit infilling, Spirit reception, and Spirit being "fallen upon" people to all NOT OCCUR as soon as someone is a believer. And if all agree that some state of the Spirit is given inside a person's life as soon as one is a believer, they cannot call it "Spirit baptism", "Spirit infilling", "Spirit reception" or the "Spirit fallen upon" them.

So the question is whether these experiences are all one and the same. Why wouldn't they be? They all are said to occur AFTER one believes and not at the point of faith and belief. Where are the instances aside from these that indicate one somehow receives the Spirit aside from initial faith and belief?
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."

Last edited by mfblume; 04-20-2010 at 11:02 AM.
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