The architect, Karl Rove, caught up in double talk

[MikeinAR]

I found this on YouTube last night and found it funny. Karl Rove, W's running buddy and tool for the last 8 years, is caught totally contradicting himself on Gubernatorial experience and being Vice President.

Compare what he said about Gov. Palin after she was selected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9I_5F3qXYo&NR=1

And what he said about Obama just considering Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPpzzADVsV0&feature=related

Wow! Could he have contradicted himself anymore? Yet another reason to never trust anything that comes out of Karl Rove's mouth.

[Jack Shephard]

Rove is still the smartest man in America!

[Cindy]

Rove is still the smartest man in America!

:ursofunny

[MikeinAR]

Rove is still the smartest man in America!

:ursofunny Exactly how do you define smart? If being a double talking, law breaking, politico equates to smart, I'm in total agreement.

[Ferd]

Rove is still the smartest man in America!

cant be. maybe second smartest. Bill Bennet is still the smartest man in America.

Newt is probably second...


but Rove certainly is high up on that list.

[MikeinAR]

Ferd?? You don't have any comments on Rove's attack of Governor Kaine's qualifications of being VP and his commendation of Gov. Sarah Palin's less qualified resume?

[Ferd]

As for Rove being caught in double speak, who cares? Rove is out of the picture. His day is done. He did his job.

Not having the ability to watch youtube I cant comment directly on these videos however there is a point here that matters and may be what Rove was speaking to.


McCain picking a lesser experienced half term gov. isnt really a concern as the TICKET has plenty of experence.

on the other hand, Obama who has very little experience (some would argue less than Palin others would say slightly more than Palin), picking a half term Gov. would have been a fools errand. That scenario would put very little real experience on the TICKET. I am comfortable with McCain/Palin on experience because of McCain. While Obama/Biden isnt what I like politically, Biden at least gives some experience to the ticket to make it lagit.

Obama/Cane is a dissaster waiting to happen.

[Ferd]

there. you happy?

[MikeinAR]

there. you happy?

Yeah, I always like reading your stuff. I was following along pretty good until you said experience wasn't a concern on the McCain/Palin ticket. The guy is 72 years old and has a well documented history of major health problems. You lost me around that bend. You know I respect your opinion though.

When you get a chance to see the video's, you'll see why Rove looks bi polar. The very things he attacked Obama for, are the very reasons McCain picked Palin and he's in full support.

It's always fun to pick on a sleazy guy like Karl Rove.

[Ferd]

Yeah, I always like reading your stuff. I was following along pretty good until you said experience wasn't a concern on the McCain/Palin ticket. The guy is 72 years old and has a well documented history of major health problems. You lost me around that bend. You know I respect your opinion though.

When you get a chance to see the video's, you'll see why Rove looks bi polar. The very things he attacked Obama for, are the very reasons McCain picked Palin and he's in full support.

It's always fun to pick on a sleazy guy like Karl Rove.

Mike, I am sure this wont shock you at all. but i dont find Karl Rove sleazy at all. He is a political guy whos job is to identify ways to win in the political arena... and he is good at it.

sleazy? LOL! not at all.


and lets go down this road of McCain dying in office. lets even go so far as to suggest that McCain passes 15 minutes after being sworn in. (it has actually happened before you know).

Then what? well we have a president as experienced as we would had we elected Obama. The next question is who does Sara Palin nominate to be confirmed as VP by the Senate? THAT is the question. If she were to pick Bobby Jindal, we have a problem.

by the way, Bobby Jindal is my pick for president after Palin. I love that guy. he is awesome.

but, Sarah Palin, while being capable, would need to select someone with more experience.... And here is the point bro, there is a very deep bench of Republicans that would fit that bill.

Also note, that the long tradition in American government is that when a president passes, and the VP assumes the office, the VP then nominates someone who will be seen as very competant and qualified. Someone who provides stability (ie. Gerald Ford and Hubert Humphrey).


So while having a very experiened and old president with a less experiened VP doesnt bother me, having very little depth at both positions does bother me.

I really should spell check.

[Jack Shephard]

Rove is still the smartest man in America...this is not an echo. Bill Bennet is up there too.

[MikeinAR]

We can definitely agree on Bobby Jindall. That guy was a rock star during Gustav and impressed me. If you want to talk about someone being the Commander and Chief of a national guard unit, there's the guy.

Karl Rove is sleazy because he leaked the name of Valerie Plame to Rober Novak, thus endangering her well being and breaking law. That's a very sleazy thing to do to someone serving the country just because her husband exposed W for falsely claiming Iraq had tried to purchase uranium from Niger.


We could debate all day long on whether being Governor of Alaska for 20 months and being Mayor of Wasilla Alaska is equal to being an Illinois state legislator and member of the U.S. Senate and Senate commitees since 2002. We probably wouldn't change each other's mind. :)

[CC1]

The bottom line is that if experience concerns you shouldn't your concern be the experience of the person at the top of the ticket?

In the 2008 election both the Republican Presidential canidate and VP canidate have more executive experience than the Democrat Presidential nominee.

As far as Karl Rove goes, MikeinAR, are you really going to act shocked that a political operative spins things to favor his canidate? Are you new to politics or something?

[MikeinAR]

The bottom line is that if experience concerns you shouldn't your concern be the experience of the person at the top of the ticket?

In the 2008 election both the Republican Presidential canidate and VP canidate have more executive experience than the Democrat Presidential nominee.

As far as Karl Rove goes, MikeinAR, are you really going to act shocked that a political operative spins things to favor his canidate? Are you new to politics or something?

If you truly believe that the Repub VP candidate who had never heard of the defining policy of the Bush administration's foreign policy, and said in March 2007 she "hadn't really been focused on Iraq" is as qualified as Obama, you're the one that's new to politics. :ursofunny

[SOUNWORTHY]

cant be. maybe second smartest. Bill Bennet is still the smartest man in America.

Newt is probably second...


but Rove certainly is high up on that list.

Rush say's he is the smartest.

[CC1]

If you truly believe that the Repub VP candidate who had never heard of the defining policy of the Bush administration's foreign policy, and said in March 2007 she "hadn't really been focused on Iraq" is as qualified as Obama, you're the one that's new to politics. :ursofunny

Oh, so a "community organizer" whose main claim to fame is advocating for poor minorities in the Soutside of Chicago and who has been running for President full time 2 of the 4 years he has spent in the Senate is more qualified? A man who has ZERO executive experience?

Sarah Plain has balanced a budget as a mayor of a small town and now as the Governor of the State of Alaska. If you do a little research you will find that out of the 50 states the Governor's responsbilities in Alaska make it one of the top four in how powerful the position is. She used her line item veto to cut the budget, helped plan budgets, and a lot of other things that an executive does that a community organizer, state legislator, and United States Senator will never do.

[Ferd]

We can definitely agree on Bobby Jindall. That guy was a rock star during Gustav and impressed me. If you want to talk about someone being the Commander and Chief of a national guard unit, there's the guy.

Karl Rove is sleazy because he leaked the name of Valerie Plame to Rober Novak, thus endangering her well being and breaking law. That's a very sleazy thing to do to someone serving the country just because her husband exposed W for falsely claiming Iraq had tried to purchase uranium from Niger.


We could debate all day long on whether being Governor of Alaska for 20 months and being Mayor of Wasilla Alaska is equal to being an Illinois state legislator and member of the U.S. Senate and Senate commitees since 2002. We probably wouldn't change each other's mind. :)

On who has more experience, as I said each side has an argument. that kind of means its a wash. what ever....

but boy Mike, for a smart guy like you, Im shocked that youve got your facts wrong on the Plame matter.

Richard Armatage (a Collin Powell guy) who is no close friend of the Bush Administration leaked Plames name to Novak. NOT Rove.

beyond that it indangered no one! The fact is, She was not covert, had not been covert over a five year period before the leak and was not covered by the statute preventing the leaking of a CIA covert agents name!

bottom line, this was neither illegal, nor sleezy.

IF and I mean a big IF Rove orchestrated this, it still wasnt sleezy. Plame's husband actually found that Iraqi officals did indeed try to buy Yellow Cake from Nigeria.

THAT was covered in the CIA reports. THEN he wrote a oped in the New York times stating the opposite!

If you want to find sleeze and a set up job, try looking at Plame and her idiot husband. I think there is plenty of sleeze right there!

Please note, the special procecutor found from the horses mouth (Richard Armatage) who leaked VPs name. and the Special Procecutor didnt procecute him because he broke no law.

[MikeinAR]

Armitage was one of three sources who leaked the name to Novak. Novak testified that Karl Rove absolutely DID confirm her ID as a CIA agent and thus became liable, IMO, in outing her and becoming sleazy. Karl Rove can not be seperated from the public ID'ing of Valerie Plame. I understand you have a different opinion and respect it.

As far as Valerie Plame's status, I'm not sure why you don't believe she's covert. I know that's what all the drum beaters at Fox News and goons like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh said, but that's not what the Director of the CIA, Michael Hayden told members of Congress. Hayden confirmed to Congressman Henry Waxman that she was in fact covert. Here's the link to Congressional Testimony: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/hayden-cia-plame-covert/

I'll take the CIA Directors word on that one.

[Ferd]

Armitage was one of three sources who leaked the name to Novak. Novak testified that Karl Rove absolutely DID confirm her ID as a CIA agent and thus became liable, IMO, in outing her and becoming sleazy. Karl Rove can not be seperated from the public ID'ing of Valerie Plame. I understand you have a different opinion and respect it.

As far as Valerie Plame's status, I'm not sure why you don't believe she's covert. I know that's what all the drum beaters at Fox News and goons like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh said, but that's not what the Director of the CIA, Michael Hayden told members of Congress. Hayden confirmed to Congressman Henry Waxman that she was in fact covert. Here's the link to Congressional Testimony: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/hayden-cia-plame-covert/

I'll take the CIA Directors word on that one.

Mike that is a great link and it puts it into perfect perspective. Valarie Plame was NOT covert. They say she "was" covert.

the statute was not violated. period. Armatage told Novak about Plame. HE admitted it to the special procecutor, and he was NOT procecuted.

NOBODY was. Outing a covert CIA operative is a crime. You go to jail for that. The Dems have made a big show about this but not a single person has been even charged with a crime in this. THAT ought to tell you everything you need to know about this.

Plame was NOT covert. She had been covert, she might have had some intention of being so at some point in the future. but at the time of her being identified by Robert Novack, she was not coverd by the statute. She had been back in the USA for more than 5 years.

Did Rove confirm to Novack? clearly he did. but he was not the one who first brought it up.

Further Robert Novack has stated that it was "common knowledge" that Plame had been a covert CIA agent. Evidently lots of people knew about Plames "secret". Novack didnt get a call out of the blue from Richard Armatige he went looking to confirm what he was hearing on the street.

Now I have no doubt that Rove didnt mind that coming out as it did after Plame and her idiot husband had tossed a pie in the presidents face, but lets not play like everyone was innocent but Rove. that is just wrong.

It was a double game of gotcha and Plame and her crew got burned in their own game.

[crakjak]

Mike that is a great link and it puts it into perfect perspective. Valarie Plame was NOT covert. They say she "was" covert.

the statute was not violated. period. Armatage told Novak about Plame. HE admitted it to the special procecutor, and he was NOT procecuted.

NOBODY was. Outing a covert CIA operative is a crime. You go to jail for that. The Dems have made a big show about this but not a single person has been even charged with a crime in this. THAT ought to tell you everything you need to know about this.

Plame was NOT covert. She had been covert, she might have had some intention of being so at some point in the future. but at the time of her being identified by Robert Novack, she was not coverd by the statute. She had been back in the USA for more than 5 years.

Did Rove confirm to Novack? clearly he did. but he was not the one who first brought it up.

Further Robert Novack has stated that it was "common knowledge" that Plame had been a covert CIA agent. Evidently lots of people knew about Plames "secret". Novack didnt get a call out of the blue from Richard Armatige he went looking to confirm what he was hearing on the street.

Now I have no doubt that Rove didnt mind that coming out as it did after Plame and her idiot husband had tossed a pie in the presidents face, but lets not play like everyone was innocent but Rove. that is just wrong.

It was a double game of gotcha and Plame and her crew got burned in their own game.

The Plame nonsense was just another of the Democrats dozens of investigation about nothing in order to confuse the masses. This is all to cover their inability to govern or do anything constructive for the country. The are experts at attacking Republicans and completely incompetent in attacking the real enemies of freedom and liberty.:snapout for MikeinArk

[Ferd]

The Plame nonsense was just another of the Democrats dozens of investigation about nothing in order to confuse the masses. This is all to cover their inability to govern or do anything constructive for the country. The are experts at attacking Republicans and completely incompetent in attacking the real enemies of freedom and liberty.:snapout for MikeinArk

Its nuts isnt it?

1. Everyone knows who gave the name to novack (Richard Armatage)
2. We know what he law states.
3. There was a special procecutor
4. The special procecutor did not even charge Armatage.


NO LAW WAS BROKEN. Rove did nothing wrong.

[Light]

Its nuts isnt it?

1. Everyone knows who gave the name to novack (Richard Armatage)
2. We know what he law states.
3. There was a special procecutor
4. The special procecutor did not even charge Armatage.
NO LAW WAS BROKEN. Rove did nothing wrong.

Just because no one was charged doesn't mean a law was not broken. The on;y time a republican politician uses the word Mortality is with abortion or homos, lies and other deceitful means don't count if the end justifies the means. This can be seen in some of McCan't remembers adds and with his talking heads on TV.

[MikeinAR]

I wasn't planning on arguing the Valerie Plame case here, but let's be perfectly clear. Despite the misinformation, Plame was ABSOLUTELY covert. She'd traveled outside the U.S. on secret missions within the 5 year period before her name was outed. Thus, by law, she was protected by the Identities Protection Act. That was Elijiah Cummings point in questioning her for the Congressional Record.

Special prosectuor Patrick Fitzgerald inferred that because Armitage didn't know of her covert status, he wasn't sure there was intent to out her and didn't seek charges. That was his call. Karl Rove and Scooter Libby DID know she was covert, but weren't the source of the original leak they just helped confirm it. That's why charges weren't brought.

As to her "covertness", The Chief of the CIA, Michael Hayden, confirmed the fact that she was a covert agent at the time of her outing to Congressmen. That's established fact.

[TRFrance]

cant be. maybe second smartest. Bill Bennet is still the smartest man in America.

Newt is probably second...

but Rove certainly is high up on that list.
Indeed he is.
He's one of the smartest minds ever in American politics.

And one of the most hated by Democrats and leftists.

They were leading in polls earlier in the 2000 campaign. And Gore lost at the end.
They were leading in polls earlier in the 2004 campaign. And Kerry lost at the end.
They were leading in polls earlier in the 2008 campaign. And Obama.....(??)

The Democrats wish they had their own version of a Karl Rove on their side.
I guess the left will hate him forever since he helped engineer two consecutive defeats of the Democrats. They just cant let it go. They're still bitter.

But they need to just build a bridge... and get over it.

Karl Rove is a non issue in this campaign.

[TRFrance]

Karl Rove is sleazy because he leaked the name of Valerie Plame to Rober Novak, thus endangering her well being and breaking law. That's a very sleazy thing to do to someone serving the country just because her husband exposed W for falsely claiming Iraq had tried to purchase uranium from Niger.


Please. Stop the madness.
Do the facts matter to you at all?

Karl Rove did not leak the name. It was Richard Armitage who did. He even admitted it on CNN.

(Don't take my word for it. Just do a Google search. It has been well documented.)

Look if it, if you'd like to know the facts... Unless maybe you just like blaming Karl Rove for stuff he didnt do.

[MikeinAR]

Please. Stop the madness.
Do the facts matter to you at all?

Karl Rove did not leak the name. It was Richard Armitage who did. He even admitted it on CNN.

(Don't take my word for it. Just do a Google search. It has been well documented.)

Look if it, if you'd like to know the facts... Unless maybe you just like blaming Karl Rove for stuff he didnt do.

Do you even read my posts or just start spouting your talking points? Sheesh. I knew you were blinded by your right wing bias, but I thought you'd at least read my posts.

I said:

"Special prosectuor Patrick Fitzgerald inferred that because Armitage didn't know of her covert status, he wasn't sure there was intent to out her and didn't seek charges. That was his call. Karl Rove and Scooter Libby DID know she was covert, but weren't the source of the original leak they just helped confirm it. That's why charges weren't brought."

Karl Rove confirmed her identity to Novak AFTER Armitage leaked her name. He was absolutely involved in confirming the identity of a protected CIA agent.

He shouldn't have confirmed anything for Robert Novak on a covert CIA agent. Karl Rove played in integral part in Plame's name being leaked by confirming classified information to Novak. That doesn't seem complicated to me.

It was unethical. Not that it's surprising concerning Karl Rove.

[gloryseeker]

I found this on YouTube last night and found it funny. Karl Rove, W's running buddy and tool for the last 8 years, is caught totally contradicting himself on Gubernatorial experience and being Vice President.

Compare what he said about Gov. Palin after she was selected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9I_5F3qXYo&NR=1

And what he said about Obama just considering Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPpzzADVsV0&feature=related

Wow! Could he have contradicted himself anymore? Yet another reason to never trust anything that comes out of Karl Rove's mouth.

Define what you are calling doublespeak, you obviously have an ax to grind, but I didn't see what you are chopping at.

[TRFrance]

I knew you were blinded by your right wing bias, but I thought you'd at least read my posts.

I said:

"Special prosectuor Patrick Fitzgerald inferred that because Armitage didn't know of her covert status, he wasn't sure there was intent to out her and didn't seek charges. That was his call. Karl Rove and Scooter Libby DID know she was covert, but weren't the source of the original leak they just helped confirm it. That's why charges weren't brought."

Karl Rove confirmed her identity to Novak AFTER Armitage leaked her name. He was absolutely involved in confirming the identity of a protected CIA agent.

He shouldn't have confirmed anything for Robert Novak on a covert CIA agent. Karl Rove played in integral part in Plame's name being leaked by confirming classified information to Novak. That doesn't seem complicated to me.

It was unethical. Not that it's surprising concerning Karl Rove.

That's funny. I'm blinded by my "right wing bias"... but you're objective here, with no left wing bias? Yah. Ok.

Rove doesnt need me to defend him. He did what he did, but it's old news. I dont see why left wingers are still obsessed with it in 2008.

My whole point is, if anything ARMITAGE should be the issue here. He is the one who dropped the name. But of course, he's not the issue. Because Armitage is not the hated target of the left that Rove is, that's why they dont hound him over this the way they continue to hound Rove. The left always wanted to bring down Rove, and thought the Plame affair would be there chance to do it. But after the investigations, he slipped through their fingers... and they're still angry and bitter over it. :violin

All things considered, his so-called "confirmation" of Plame's identity appears to have been incidental, rather than intentional. Rove's part in this is already documented. Such as: "Novak testified he got confirmation from White House political adviser Karl Rove, who replied to him: 'Oh, you've heard that, too.' "

On July 8, 2007, Rove spoke publicly about the investigation at the Aspen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen,_Colorado) Ideas Festival question-and-answer session. Rove told the audience "My contribution to this was to say to a reporter, which is a lesson about talking to reporters, the words 'I heard that too,'...Remember, the underlying offense of Armitage talking to Novak was no violation. There was no indictment."

You want to crucify the man for an off-the-cuff, albeit ill-advised, comment? Have at it. But it just makes you look obsessed with the man, and this issue.

Keep in mind... Rove did not go to Novak. Novak came to him. Novak already knew about plame. Sure, Rove should have kept his mouth shut, but none of us knows how the conversation went.... Novak has been in the business for decades, so he knows how to get someone to say something to get them to "confirm" something he's thinks they might know. That appeasrs to be what happened in this case.

Novak, who's known rove for years, brought it up in casual conversation wiht Rove, in order to get a response from Rove that would confirm what he already knew from Armitage. Perhaps Rove had a case of verbal diarrhea here, or whatever the case may be. But there's nothing to indicate that he had any sinister intent.

Rove may well have been guilty of "loose lips"... but that doesnt make him a "sleaze-bag" or any of the other hateful things the nutty left wingers like to call him. Truly, Bush Derangement Syndrome is still affecting the American Left. It's sad.

To left wingers, Karl Rove is the devil. Whatever. My advice to all the lefties: please, get over it.