View Full Version : Bishop SC Johnson
warrior
08-01-2007, 10:23 AM
Everyone here seems to be well educated in the UPCI. I was wondering has anyone heard of Bishop SC Johnson and his apostolic teachings. He is considered one the main pioneers among apostolics in the African American community. If you know about him and his teachings, please share what you know. I am sure Bro. Sam knows about this gentleman. We have discussed him before.
Yes, he is well versed in apostolic history.
freeatlast
08-01-2007, 10:25 AM
I think there was a thread about him here at one time.
Not sure how you'd find it though
Brother Strange
08-01-2007, 10:28 AM
I did not know him personally but I've been to his church. I know his teachings. Though stout oneness, he believed if you were saved that you had to hear the gospel from his mouth.
Had other weird ideas too such as his ideas on marriage.
What were his weird ideas about marriage, Elder?
Scott Hutchinson
08-01-2007, 10:42 AM
You rang happy to be of service.
http://theholytemplechurch.org/21burningsubjects.htm
warrior
08-01-2007, 10:55 AM
The Holy Temple is a splinter church, but 95% of the teaching are the same. Let's discuss them, Scott. You seem to be familiar.
1. As someone stated that you could only hear the gospel from his mouth. Let's start there, shall we.
Chewy
08-01-2007, 11:00 AM
Doesn't he make floorwax?
warrior
08-01-2007, 11:13 AM
Different person.
The Mrs
08-01-2007, 11:20 AM
Doesn't he make floorwax?
:smack Always a wise guy!
HangingOut
08-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Was his church in St. Louis and passed on to Bishop Scott?
marthaolivia
08-01-2007, 01:56 PM
My mom would listen to him on the radio back in the 50's. I believe his radio program was out of Philadelphia, Pa. He always began his radio program with the choir singing "One, One, One, One way to God....Baptized in Jesus Name." If I remember correctly, he taught that women should wear cotton stockings!
Brother Strange
08-01-2007, 04:03 PM
My mom would listen to him on the radio back in the 50's. I believe his radio program was out of Philadelphia, Pa. He always began his radio program with the choir singing "One, One, One, One way to God....Baptized in Jesus Name." If I remember correctly, he taught that women should wear cotton stockings!
He did.
I heard him tell of a time that he was traveling from Florida up highway one returning to his church at 25th and Bainbridge in Philadelphia. He happened upon a wreck. There on the side of the road was a woman who had been killed in the accident. He said, "I know she went to hell. She was wearing nylons."
:D
marthaolivia
08-01-2007, 06:19 PM
I wonder if all he noticed were the nylon hose at a fatal accident scene. She was dead and he was looking at her nylon encased legs?? I wonder if he noticed whether she had open-toed shoes.
Steadfast
08-02-2007, 01:03 AM
I've got a debate of his. Don't remember his 'opponents' name but I do know this much... Johnson humiliated that man! I don't think I've ever heard a debate as embarrassing as that one.
Johnson was like a bulldog that refused to let go.
warrior
08-02-2007, 05:54 AM
He did.
I heard him tell of a time that he was traveling from Florida up highway one returning to his church at 25th and Bainbridge in Philadelphia. He happened upon a wreck. There on the side of the road was a woman who had been killed in the accident. He said, "I know she went to hell. She was wearing nylons."
:D
That doesn' surprise me. He was very dogmatic in his teachings. Those teachings still live on today and he's been dead some 60 years. The congregation hasn't moved beyond that yet. Those teachings include:
Women should wear cotton stockings
They should always wear a hat at all times
They are unable to relax or perm their hair
The hair must be kept in a net at all times
They can only wear blue, green, black, brown, grey and white
No long sleeves
No splits in skirts
No short sleeves
Shoes must be grey, blue and black( even on your wedding day)
Of course no pants on women
Men must wear solid color ties
Women must wear solid colored clothes
The list probably goes on, and I just don't know it.
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 07:01 AM
I did not know him personally but I've been to his church. I know his teachings. Though stout oneness, he believed if you were saved that you had to hear the gospel from his mouth.
Had other weird ideas too such as his ideas on marriage.
Elder you said that very well.
The Lord bless you and your family.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 07:28 AM
Many years ago, George L. Glass Sr. went to pay a visit on Johnson who was preaching near DeRidder where he also pastored a church at the time. Bro. Glass sought to build a bridge, as he always did so well, said to the Bishop, "Bishop your people and the UPCI are not that too far apart at all."
Bishop Johnson looked at him with a stern scrowl and said, "About as far a part as hell is to heaven."
That was the end of that talk. It left everyone in no doubt about how the Bishop thought.
freeatlast
08-02-2007, 07:45 AM
I am always humored when people describe a preacher like Johnson as strong or stout.....seems to me another word that statrs with "S" would better describe such rabid mentality.
That doesn' surprise me. He was very dogmatic in his teachings. Those teachings still live on today and he's been dead some 60 years. The congregation hasn't moved beyond that yet. Those teachings include:
Women should wear cotton stockings
They should always wear a hat at all times
They are unable to relax or perm their hair
The hair must be kept in a net at all times
They can only wear blue, green, black, brown, grey and white
No long sleeves
No splits in skirts
No short sleeves
Shoes must be grey, blue and black( even on your wedding day)
Of course no pants on women
Men must wear solid color ties
Women must wear solid colored clothes
The list probably goes on, and I just don't know it.
Sounds like a real winner and leader!!!!!!!!!!
GAG!:vomit:vomit:vomit:vomit
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 07:47 AM
Elder you said that very well.
The Lord bless you and your family.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Thank you.
I used to love hearing the "Whole Truth Broadcast," eminating from the sanctuary of the Apostolic Square at 25th and Bainbridge Streets in the heart of downtown Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the world's largest Apostolic Sanctuary.
He was so anointed in his preaching...thought totally messed up on some of his weird doctrines.
He preached that if you divorced you wife and married another, you could not be saved. Even if the woman that you divorced was now married to another man, she is still your wife. If you are going to be have a wife at all, you had to reconcile to your first wife and remarry the woman. To have another wife, regardless of the circumstances, you were going as straight to hell as a Martin to his gourd.
But, I dearly loved the man for one reason...he was probably the stoutest, most profound, absolute messenger of the One God message as there ever was, rivaled by only one man...G.A. Mangun. Bishop Mangun greatly loved him too, for that one reason. I remember when S.C. Johnson died unexpectedly down in Jamaica, it greatly disturbed brother Mangun. He grieved over his loss for a while. Never a stouter preacher of this GREAT, GREAT ONE GOD MESSAGE.
Preachers...if you want the anointing to return. PREACH IT! I heard one reknown preacher among us respond to a saint that wanted to hear that preaching, "Well, is there anything about the Oneness that you don't understand?" The reknown preacher missed the point. The point is; God is in the message. God comes down and visits among the people during the preaching among those who receive it. It is the highest order of preaching there is, for there is no god but the Lord God, who is above all.
Well, preaching that message very much, you might set up an earthquake or two, but keep preaching it until everything that can be shaken is shaken until that which cannot be shaken is firmly fixed to the rock...Christ Jesus. It'll work. I once thought that G. A. Mangun has totally lost his ever-loving-mind. All he could preach for weeks on end was ONE GOD. Wow! Did it ever have its affect! That old church on 16th and Day streets just off Bolton avenue was visited with a white hot, twisting pillar of fire that lasted for many years. People were slain. People were healed. The power and the glory of the Lord was mightly manifested. Some people who have walked though the doors for the first time, have falled to the floor from the lingering afterglow of God's presence there. Those old timers, including ME, will never, never forget it.
Some wonder why I lament and weep! OH GOD! If they only knew.
warrior
08-02-2007, 07:58 AM
Brother Strange, how could Johnson who had so much truth be filled with so much error. His one God doctrine is certainly on the money, but he was in error about so many other things. i.e. No son of God in heaven, marriage, apostolic standard of dress and many other issues. Please answer that question.
Personally, I feel like his hard heart didn't allow him to love all mankind. He was only conditioned to love those who were like him. That is problematic, because you can't get into heaven not loving your fellow man.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 08:01 AM
Brother Strange, how could Johnson who had so much truth be filled with so much error. His one God doctrine is certainly on the money, but he was in error about so many other things. i.e. No son of God in heaven, marriage, apostolic standard of dress and many other issues. Please answer that question.
Personally, I feel like his hard heart didn't allow him to love all mankind. He was only conditioned to love those who were like him. That is problematic, because you can't get into heaven not loving your fellow man.
Truly, I understand your question.
There are just somethings that defy logic that can never be explained in this life.
freeatlast
08-02-2007, 08:11 AM
Truly, I understand your question.
There are just somethings that defy logic that can never be explained in this life.
To explain, one would have to say that a one God preacher will have to give account before God for the things he preached, so vehemently in error, even though he was stout on the one God message.
Yes, that would be something that could never be explained in thsi life. :roseglasses
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 08:18 AM
Thank you.
I used to love hearing the "Whole Truth Broadcast," eminating from the sanctuary of the Apostolic Square at 25th and Bainbridge Streets in the heart of downtown Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the world's largest Apostolic Sanctuary.
He was so anointed in his preaching...thought totally messed up on some of his weird doctrines.
He preached that if you divorced you wife and married another, you could not be saved. Even if the woman that you divorced was now married to another man, she is still your wife. If you are going to be have a wife at all, you had to reconcile to your first wife and remarry the woman. To have another wife, regardless of the circumstances, you were going as straight to hell as a Martin to his gourd.
But, I dearly loved the man for one reason...he was probably the stoutest, most profound, absolute messenger of the One God message as there ever was, rivaled by only one man...G.A. Mangun. Bishop Mangun greatly loved him too, for that one reason. I remember when S.C. Johnson died unexpectedly down in Jamaica, it greatly disturbed brother Mangun. He grieved over his loss for a while. Never a stouter preacher of this GREAT, GREAT ONE GOD MESSAGE.
Preachers...if you want the anointing to return. PREACH IT! I heard one reknown preacher among us respond to a saint that wanted to hear that preaching, "Well, is there anything about the Oneness that you don't understand?" The reknown preacher missed the point. The point is; God is in the message. God comes down and visits among the people during the preaching among those who receive it. It is the highest order of preaching there is, for there is no god but the Lord God, who is above all.
Well, preaching that message very much, you might set up an earthquake or two, but keep preaching it until everything that can be shaken is shaken until that which cannot be shaken is firmly fixed to the rock...Christ Jesus. It'll work. I once thought that G. A. Mangun has totally lost his ever-loving-mind. All he could preach for weeks on end was ONE GOD. Wow! Did it ever have its affect! That old church on 16th and Day streets just off Bolton avenue was visited with a white hot, twisting pillar of fire that lasted for many years. People were slain. People were healed. The power and the glory of the Lord was mightly manifested. Some people who have walked though the doors for the first time, have falled to the floor from the lingering afterglow of God's presence there. Those old timers, including ME, will never, never forget it.
Some wonder why I lament and weep! OH GOD! If they only knew.
Elder this is a wonderfully beautiful post.
The Lord bless you and your family in a great way.
You're a precious Brother. The One GOD message of the mighty God in Christ and the power of His NAME are still what revival is made of.
The Lord bless your heart.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Sounds like a real winner and leader!!!!!!!!!!
GAG!:vomit:vomit:vomit:vomit
He was an unusual and eccentric man with some strange ideas, but if in your lifetime you do half as much for the Kingdom as he did, you will do well.
warrior
08-02-2007, 08:21 AM
To explain, one would have to say that a one God preacher will have to give account before God for the things he preached, so vehemently in error, even though he was stout on the one God message.
Yes, that would be something that could never be explained in thsi life. :roseglasses
Are you saying preachers don't give an account for what they preac?
warrior
08-02-2007, 08:22 AM
He was an unusual and eccentric man with some strange ideas, but if in your lifetime you do half as much for the Kingdom as he did, you will do well.
We can't be saved through works. The fact that we introduced so many to Christ doesn't merit us the kingdom either. Our life and nothing more is what says if we will go back with Jesus when he comes.
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 08:23 AM
To explain, one would have to say that a one God preacher will have to give account before God for the things he preached, so vehemently in error, even though he was stout on the one God message.
Yes, that would be something that could never be explained in thsi life. :roseglasses
Amen, I guess we get a nice Bible study as we stand before the throne.
Time proves all things.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
freeatlast
08-02-2007, 08:28 AM
Are you saying preachers don't give an account for what they preac?
NO ! I am of the opposite opinion that preachers, even the stoutest one god preachers will be held accounatable to God for the Error that they so forcefully proclaim as if it was gospel.
From no red dresses to no shiny things allowed on your person, From you must wear your hair up in a bun or you gotta wear it down covering your shoulders.
The fact that you convinced some people that all the trinitarians are going to hell. Despite the fact that you baptized thousands in Jesus name.
Despite all that,,it does not give a "free pass" for the doctrines of falacy that a one God / tongue talkin preacher also distributed along the way.
warrior
08-02-2007, 08:35 AM
NO ! I am of the opposite opinion that preachers, even the stoutest one god preachers will be held accounatable to God for the Error that they so forcefully proclaim as if it was gospel.
From no red dresses to no shiny things allowed on your person, From you must wear your hair up in a bun or you gotta wear it down covering your shoulders.
The fact that you convinced some people that all the trinitarians are going to hell. Despite the fact that you baptized thousands in Jesus name.
Despite all that,,it does not give a "free pass" for the doctrines of falacy that a one God / tongue talkin preacher also distributed along the way.
Great! We are in agreement.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 08:36 AM
I refuse to believe that S.C. Johnson is lost, inspite of the error that he held as truths.
God is greater than that. I'm thankful that He is greater than that because there might be something in what I believe that would bar me from heaven's door. How trajic to never get to see Jesus...never to see Jesus...!
warrior
08-02-2007, 08:42 AM
No one can judge where this man is. That is God's place. However, Bishop Johnson wouldn't have any problem sending you straight to hell because you were not a member of his assembly.
Brother Strange, your compassion is felt in your post. God Bless you!
warrior
08-02-2007, 08:45 AM
I think that his teachings need to be discussed because they didn't die with him. In 2007 there are people who teach his messages just as hard core as they did when he was alive.
I refuse to believe that S.C. Johnson is lost, inspite of the error that he held as truths.
God is greater than that. I'm thankful that He is greater than that because there might be something in what I believe that would bar me from heaven's door. How trajic to never get to see Jesus...never to see Jesus...!
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
freeatlast
08-02-2007, 08:47 AM
I refuse to believe that S.C. Johnson is lost, inspite of the error that he held as truths.
God is greater than that. I'm thankful that He is greater than that because there might be something in what I believe that would bar me from heaven's door. How trajic to never get to see Jesus...never to see Jesus...!
I did say he was lost, but that he would give an accountinig for his error.
We so liberally give a free pass to our "One God brother"....just preach oneness and you can make up all the phony holiness rules that we have ever devised, even claim you've got scripture to back em up.
AND GOD will just wink at your ignorance.
But let a preacher be right on about eveything in the book, but let's say he say's in baptism, I baptize you in the F S and HG which is Jesus Christ and "we " call him lost.
Let him say three personallites and he's going to hell..while "we" say three offfices and we are OK.
Our inconsistency is laughable.
Now with that, God bless the "Bishop" SC Johnson
warrior
08-02-2007, 08:52 AM
You have a point there free at last.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 08:53 AM
Elder this is a wonderfully beautiful post.
The Lord bless you and your family in a great way.
You're a precious Brother. The One GOD message of the mighty God in Christ and the power of His NAME are still what revival is made of.
The Lord bless your heart.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Indeed.
The mightiest of God's warrior angels are in attendance at the preaching of THAT particular message. Those warrior angels overshadow with their wings and guard His Glory, much like the Cherubs that overshadow the mercy seat, as in guarding the glory of God.
It is waaaaaay past time that our preaching should set up some earthquakes. The first commandment (Thou shalt have no other gods before me) was given in the presence of fire, smoke, shaking earthquake, ever increasing sound of trumpes, the roar of thunder, and thick clouds of the glory of God, in fear and in trembling. "Hear O Isreal, the Lord our God is ONE Lord."
God will not fail to send his MIGHTIES angels at the preaching of ONE GOD, to overshadow HIS WORD. We've heard every kind of preaching in the world from Daniel in the Lion's den to poor ol' Job and his arnery wife, all in the effort to make it relevant to our lives today but fail to understand that the affect of preaching the central message of all: One Lord, One Faith, One baptism...yes ONE GOD...
Preaching that one message can straighten out in one Holy Ghost saturated night what endless preaching from bible stories can do in trying to make them applicable to today's screwed up minds and lives.
We pray, "Send the fire, Oh God." But there is no fire. Yet Elijah mocks us to cry a little louder. Maybe is on a trip and will not return for awhile. The name "Elijah" means "Jehovah is my God." All else is idolatory. The preaching of ONE GOD will shake both heaven an hell and straighten up every screwed up mind, tangled up life, upside down pervert. It will humble the high places. It will exalt the valleys. It will straighten the path. It will bring light to darkness. It will bring vicotry, joy and glory in the presence of the saints of God who also love its great, great truth of who Jesus is and the power of His great, great name.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 08:58 AM
I did say he was lost, but that he would give an accountinig for his error.
We so liberally give a free pass to our "One God brother"....just preach oneness and you can make up all the phony holiness rules that we have ever devised, even claim you've got scripture to back em up.
AND GOD will just wink at your ignorance.
But let a preacher be right on about eveything in the book, but let's say he say's in baptism, I baptize you in the F S and HG which is Jesus Christ and "we " call him lost.
Let him say three personallites and he's going to hell..while "we" say three offfices and we are OK.
Our inconsistency is laughable.
Now with that, God bless the "Bishop" SC Johnson
Might I suggest that we are ALL going to give an account. That should go without saying as though it was a new revelation.
I just hope that God will give me a pass on some of my ignorance. In God's eyes, he may have been more right than I will ever be. I am no judge excpet to say that some of his doctrines were very weird in my opinion.
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
your error was not in making these comments in larger, more readable font.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 09:05 AM
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
Trinitarian believers are lost without hope beyond this life.
No entrance will be granted into heaven where there is only one God to anyone who says with there lips "one," but in their heart they think "three."
While God does not refuse anyone entrance there, yet when the light of heaven shines upon the grotesqueness and the horrid image of the soul who has not been washed of its reptile appearance by the great truth of ONE GOD, that soul will seek to hide himself. Finding a place of darkness just below himself, he will plunge himself headlong into that darkness for a hiding place, only to be told that he can never escape from there.
Hell hath enlarged itself and has also received Rev. Jerry Falwell, his followers, Tammy Faye and her followers too.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 09:07 AM
your error was not in making these comments in larger, more readable font.
May God have mercy on his poor soul. :D
DividedThigh
08-02-2007, 09:12 AM
May God have mercy on his poor soul. :D
bro strange, i have always been a strong beleiver that god is the judge not me, i am sure there are a few people that are glad of that, or they might be toast, only god knows, and i dont want to know right now, cause i have a lot to live for, love you, dt
your error was not in making these comments in larger, more readable font.
Why was it an error on my part?
In any case, thanks for correcting the error.:)
freeatlast
08-02-2007, 09:15 AM
Might I suggest that we are ALL going to give an account. That should go without saying as though it was a new revelation.
I just hope that God will give me a pass on some of my ignorance. In God's eyes, he may have been more right than I will ever be. I am no judge excpet to say that some of his doctrines were very weird in my opinion.
Elder: I beleive that God is going to be..No, God is, in the present, very merciful to all of us.
I think that many of "US" are much more concerned with "absolute doctrinal correctness" than God is himself.
One thing that God is gonna be a little hard in, I fear, is those who judge others unworthy.
The preacher that cause's God's childred to stumble or falter , over petty issue's ...I would not want to be in those shoes at judgment day.
and Yes by pettty issues I mean ones like whether you ladies wear hose or cotton socks.
The bible says we will give an account of what we say. If you say no women, wearing nylon hose, will inherit the kingdom of God. and you are wrong in that teaching..well do you think person or preacher will just get "well done though good and faithful servant" when they meet Jesus??
and how about all the rest of the "crazy" "ignorant" things we have screamed at the top of our lungs are going to send folks to hell.
Maybe we should sart a thread and list all the foolishness we have heard preached over sacred pentecostal pulpits from coast to coast.
Never mind bad idea...that would consume far to much bandwith. :sos
DividedThigh
08-02-2007, 09:17 AM
all i can say is amen to that, bro, dt:sos
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 09:19 AM
Trinitarian believers are lost without hope beyond this life.
No entrance will be granted into heaven where there is only one God to anyone who says with there lips "one," but in their heart they think "three."
While God does not refuse anyone entrance there, yet when the light of heaven shines upon the grotesqueness and the horrid image of the soul who has not been washed of its reptile appearance by the great truth of ONE GOD, that soul will seek to hide himself. Finding a place of darkness just below himself, he will plunge himself headlong into that darkness for a hiding place, only to be told that he can never escape from there.
Hell hath enlarged itself and has also received Rev. Jerry Falwell, his followers, Tammy Faye and her followers too.
Trinitarians need to be saved.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 09:21 AM
Elder: I beleive that God is going to be..No, God is, in the present, very merciful to all of us.
I think that many of "US" are much more concerned with "absolute doctrinal correctness" than God is himself.
One thing that God is gonna be a little hard in, I fear, is those who judge others unworthy.
The preacher that cause's God's childred to stumble or falter , over petty issue's ...I would not want to be in those shoes at judgment day.
and Yes by pettty issues I mean ones like whether you ladies wear hose or cotton socks.
The bible says we will give an account of what we say. If you say no women, wearing nylon hose, will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. and you are wrong in that teaching..well do you think person or preacher will just get "well done though good and faithful servant" when they meet Jesus??
and how about all the rest of the "crazy" "ignorant" things we have screamed at the top of our lungs are going to send folks to hell.
Maybe we should sart a thread and list all the foolishness we have heard preached over sacred pentecostal pulpits from coast to coast.
Never mind bad idea...that would consume far to much bandwith. :sos
You address this post to me as though I stood in defense of Johnson's error. I have not.
I don't stand in defense of anyone's error.
My only point is that the message of ONE GOD, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, and the revelation of His name and power, is the summit of all truth which must be believed regardless of what other error one might have.
No need assuming that I judge in any of the lesser matters of error, I do not. But without question I will tell you that believing any other way than the truth of ONE GOD and all it implies, which includes baptism will not accrue to that soul any state of eternal felicity.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 09:30 AM
bro strange, i have always been a strong beleiver that god is the judge not me, i am sure there are a few people that are glad of that, or they might be toast, only god knows, and i dont want to know right now, cause i have a lot to live for, love you, dt
Certainly I would not judge anyone in their style of hosiery or any other foolishness as Freeatlast has implied that I do. I do not make such judgments. It is unfortunate that implication was made of me. Goodness knows that I have too much wrong with me to judge another.\
The one thing that I definitely make judgment on is the absolute neccesity of the KNOWLEDGE of ONE GOD in the heart of man who says "one God" with their lips and believes it in their heart.
That is an inescapable truth that must be acknowledge by faith. Everything else is lost, regardless of all this other stuff apart from the issue that freeatlast raised. In those things, I cannot be a judge because I recognize my own lack though I may not know where all my lack lies.
Why was it an error on my part?
In any case, thanks for correcting the error.:)
some things just need to be said in big bold bright letters. I agree with you.
DividedThigh
08-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Certainly I would not judge anyone in their style of hosiery or any other foolishness as Freeatlast has implied that I do. I do not make such judgments. It is unfortunate that implication was made of me. Goodness knows that I have too much wrong with me to judge another.\
The one thing that I definitely make judgment on is the absolute neccesity of the KNOWLEDGE of ONE GOD in the heart of man who says "one God" with their lips and believes it in their heart.
That is an inescapable truth that must be acknowledge by faith. Everything else is lost, regardless of all this other stuff apart from the issue that freeatlast raised. In those things, I cannot be a judge because I recognize my own lack though I may not know where all my lack lies.
i agree we must acknowledge who he is and believe, i didnt think that was what you were doing, i know your heart, i can feel it, it is full of passion for men to know Jesus, that is ummistakable, to bad i didnt know you when i was younger, i think you and my grandfather would have gotten on royally, dt:noidea
freeatlast
08-02-2007, 09:40 AM
You address this post to me as though I stood in defense of Johnson's error. I have not.
I don't stand in defense of anyone's error.
My only point is that the message of ONE GOD, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, and the revelation of His name and power, is the summit of all truth which must be believed regardless of what other error one might have.
No need assuming that I judge in any of the lesser matters of error, I do not. But without question I will tell you that believing any other way than the truth of ONE GOD and all it implies, which includes baptism will not accrue to that soul any state of eternal felicity.
Certainly I would not judge anyone in their style of hosiery or any other foolishness as Freeatlast has implied that I do. I do not make such judgments. It is unfortunate that implication was made of me. Goodness knows that I have too much wrong with me to judge another.\
The one thing that I definitely make judgment on is the absolute neccesity of the KNOWLEDGE of ONE GOD in the heart of man who says "one God" with their lips and believes it in their heart.
That is an inescapable truth that must be acknowledge by faith. Everything else is lost, regardless of all this other stuff apart from the issue that freeatlast raised. In those things, I cannot be a judge because I recognize my own lack though I may not know where all my lack lies.
The implication was of all of us, not you alone Br Strange.
I know you don't teach the hoisery issue, that was this Johnson fellow being discussed here.
You stated earlier that he did have some weird teachings (back on page three)
You seemed to dodge the question asked of you how God could annoint the man so when he had so many other thing's he preached that were ..well a bit weird?
You siad it could'n t be explained.
That seems to me like what we so often do with "our own". We just tolerate what they are wrong on because we agree with them on ONE thing.
No Br Strange..it's not just you..it's you and me...all of us probably
Hopefully it's Jesus too.
DividedThigh
08-02-2007, 09:44 AM
i sure am glad jesus tolerates me, dt:killinme
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 09:44 AM
The implication was of all of us, not you alone Br Strange.
I know you don't teach the hoisery issue, that was this Johnson fellow being discussed here.
You stated earlier that he did have some weird teachings (back on page two)
You seemed to dodge the question asked of you how God could annoint the man so when he had so many other thing's he preached that were ..well a bit weird?
You siad it could'n t be explained.
That seems to me like what we so often do with "our own". We just tolerate what they are wrong on because we agree with them on ONE thing.
No Br Strange..it's not just you..it's you and me...all of us probably
Hopefully it's Jesus too.
Thanks for the clearer explanation.
But, it must be known that there are some things about "us" that I will never be able to explain in this life...maybe not in the next one either.
That's not a dodge. That is just being honest and transparent.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 09:46 AM
i sure am glad jesus tolerates me, dt:killinme
Me too.
I'm sure if he was less tolerant that I would get the ol' boot before you got it. Too much wrong with me. I try to confess all, but I often either run out of time or fall asleep.
DividedThigh
08-02-2007, 09:48 AM
Me too.
I'm sure if he was less tolerant that I would get the ol' boot before you got it. Too much wrong with me. I try to confess all, but I often either run out of time or fall asleep.
we both need him brother, especially me, i usually look at it the way Paul did, i am the chief of sinners, and pray harder, god bless you, i am glad i got on here just so i could know you again after 30 years, dt:killinme
Bishop Johnson was obviously off on some things regarding modesty and outward adornment. I don't think most of us would argue with that.
But that is not on par with things that determine whether a man enters the Kingdom or not.
Until the New Birth, you are not a part of the Kingdom of God, and haven't even seen it yet. So at that point, regardless of what you may or may not know or be right about, you are lost.
The New Birth is the dividing line between darkness and light.
A born again person can be wrong in some areas and still be saved, but a trinitarian is not born again, and is leading others into damnable error.
that is why the comparison between the two is not a valid one.
You can be absolutely correct in all your views on eschatology.
You can have perfect understanding about Melichezedek.
You can be dead square on every issue of modesty, separation, and holiness.
You can be sweet and kind, nice to the waitresses, not fat, and never wear jean skirts or Keds tennis shoes.
But if you aren't born of water and Spirit, you are as lost as two boys kissing.
Steadfast
08-02-2007, 10:08 AM
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
This post may well become one of my favorites... GREAT post dealing with a fact I've lamented for a while. :bow
More BOLD lettering deserved, indeed!
DividedThigh
08-02-2007, 10:09 AM
You can be absolutely correct in all your views on eschatology.
You can have perfect understanding about Melichezedek.
You can be dead square on every issue of modesty, separation, and holiness.
You can be sweet and kind, nice to the waitresses, not fat, and never wear jean skirts or Keds tennis shoes.
But if you aren't born of water and Spirit, you are as lost as two boys kissing.
that is gross, but true, ewww, dt:sos
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 10:19 AM
Just to clarify my stance...
Whatever other nutty stuff that Bishop Johnson believed as far as standards are concerned that are unscriptural, including the cotton stockings doctrine, I want it understood that I DO give the Bishop a pass, in my own judgment.
On the other hand, regardness of the correctness of all the other things a person believes, except they are born again of the water and of the Spirit, KNOWING and acknowledging ONE GOD, they are LOST, inspite of their correctness in everything else.
Give me a ONE GOD preacher who may or may not be wrong about some things over a Trinitarian preacher regardless of his correctness in everything else. The latter will send you to hell, while the former will guide you safely beyond the gates of pearl.
Just to clarify my stance...
Whatever other nutty stuff that Bishop Johnson believed as far as standards are concerned that are unscriptural, including the cotton stockings doctrine, I want it understood that I DO give the Bishop a pass, in my own judgment.
On the other hand, regardness of the correctness of all the other things a person believes, except they are born again of the water and of the Spirit, KNOWING and acknowledging ONE GOD, they are LOST, inspite of their correctness in everything else.
Give me a ONE GOD preacher who may or may not be wrong about some things over a Trinitarian preacher regardless of his correctness in everything else. The latter will send you to hell, while the former will guide you safely beyond the gates of pearl.
That is precisely what I tried to say in an above post.
I agree.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 10:30 AM
That is precisely what I tried to say in an above post.
I agree.
I thought you said it quite well. I was agreeing with you. :D
warrior
08-02-2007, 11:30 AM
So Johnson was excused in all of his error as long as taught the one God message.....interesting? If that is the case then that leaves a great deal of room for error.
So Johnson was excused in all of his error as long as taught the one God message.....interesting? If that is the case then that leaves a great deal of room for error.
No one has said that.
Errors in secondary issues aren't necessarily salvational.
But regardless of what else a man is right about, if he is a trinitarian and doesn't teach the New Birth, he is lost.
Surely you see the difference in that view vs. what you posted.
warrior
08-02-2007, 11:39 AM
I see it only to a degree. He taught everythis as salvational even it is wasn't.... going to hell for wearing nylon. This was taught to his congregations and they continued to condem others for things that weren't "salvational".
RandyWayne
08-02-2007, 11:46 AM
So Johnson was excused in all of his error as long as taught the one God message.....interesting? If that is the case then that leaves a great deal of room for error.
What it means is that Johnson could teach that Santa Clause was coming to town and it would be alright because he wasn't holding to the "trinitarian" view that a pantheon of Gods were looking down on us. Wait... I don't know ANY trinitarians (outside of my dear departed Grandma who was VERY Catholic) who believe in a pantheon of gods......
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
Evidently this needs to be said for the fourth time around here.
warrior
08-02-2007, 11:54 AM
Ferd, you don't have to be sarcastic.
Moving this discussion right along. What about those people who refuse to hear anyone else except for Johnson. They sit at home and play his tapes as a means of food for their soul.
Ferd, you don't have to be sarcastic.
Moving this discussion right along. What about those people who refuse to hear anyone else except for Johnson. They sit at home and play his tapes as a means of food for their soul.
I don't think that is very smart, but at least they will hear the only saving message--Acts 2:38.
Folks who follow trinitarians or other false prophets and false teachers have no chance to hear the Truth.
warrior
08-02-2007, 12:01 PM
Well, they are of the belief that Johnson is the only called preacher and teacher of the word. If you don't hear it from him then you haven't heard it and you are in danger of hell fire. That is a salvational issue to me because it sounds like idol worship. Those who want to hurry and place him in an elite seat in heaven might want to think about that.
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 02:52 PM
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
Hey Ferd, how about a 5th time.
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 03:41 PM
It bears repeating the 6th time so that there is no mistake about it:
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure
It should be clear, that everything else is secondary. Every other issue is secondary to the apex of knowledge, wisdom and understanding. It is the supreme truth. It is the summit of all wisdom. It is the only saving message by which man can escape the corruption of this world.
Ferd, you don't have to be sarcastic.
Moving this discussion right along. What about those people who refuse to hear anyone else except for Johnson. They sit at home and play his tapes as a means of food for their soul.
well, honestly anyone who knows me knows I do sarcasm about as well as anything, so yea. I do have to be sarcastic to some degree....
then there is satire. I love satire. Amos words prove a point. We have Jerrry Fallwell walking the streets of gold and SC Johnson in hell because he took a strong stance against red socs or white shoes on men.
but now you have moved beyond what SCJ did. you have moved into what people have done to him....as a dead guy.
Was Johnson right on everything? no. was he right on salvation? yea. you cant do too much to be saved. however, you can do too little.
those that have turned him into an Idol are in danger of hell fire. IF SCJ put himself in that position as WBranham did, then he would be in jepordy too. But I dont think SCJ made himself out to be Christ. Even if he did call some odd standards salvational.
RandyWayne
08-02-2007, 03:44 PM
So, someone who preaches the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments is lost (along with Christ crucified) but someone who teaches a variety of errors but the "ONENESS of Gawd" is granted all the leeway in the world....
Sad.
And no, we don't need it to be DISPLAYED A 7TH TIME!
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 03:54 PM
And no, we don't need it to be DISPLAYED A 7TH TIME!
LOL...
But 7 is the perfect number. :killinme
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 04:04 PM
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure.
Aaaand away we go! NUMBER 7 with a bullet!
:tricycle
Brother Strange
08-02-2007, 04:11 PM
Aaaand away we go! NUMBER 7 with a bullet!
:tricycle
LOL... :D
YOU would! And with a bullet.
Now trying to make a fast get away on a tricycle. :killinme
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 04:22 PM
LOL... :D
YOU would! And with a bullet.
Now trying to make a fast get away on a tricycle. :killinme
Hehe :D
Trinitarians need to be saved.
Right along side of judges!!!!!!!!!
While some of these men set themselves up and force their preferences and convictions on folks as though they are mandates for their salvation.
Ill tell you what THEY will give account and if ONE soul loses out because of their control freak mentality....THEY are as lost as the worst sinner or trinitarian!
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 08:36 PM
Right along side of judges!!!!!!!!!
While some of these men set themselves up and force their preferences and convictions on folks as though they are mandates for their salvation.
Ill tell you what THEY will give account and if ONE soul loses out because of their control freak mentality....THEY are as lost as the worst sinner or trinitarian!
The Lord bless you real good. Dan, read your post, YOU ARE saying that THEY will give an account if ONE soul loses out because of their control freak meantality? Whose the judge? Who are you talking about? You need to cool out man. Your act is starting to get old.
Hey Dan go get a shotgun and shoot me already. Just don't bore me to death. :)
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
The Dean
08-02-2007, 08:48 PM
Just can't stand it... is this the 8th now?
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure
I still like it!
Evang.Benincasa
08-02-2007, 08:51 PM
Just can't stand it... is this the 8th now?
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure
I still like it!
8 the number of new beginnings!
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
warrior
08-03-2007, 05:44 AM
Okay! enough is enough!
Brother Strange
08-03-2007, 06:36 AM
Give me an old time preacher whose message is the APOSTOLIC message of ONE God, ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE church, ONE plan of salvation until heaven falls, the bottom is knocked out of hell, demons hunt for hiding places and sinners and the hipocrites run to the altar crying for God's mercy or runs out of the meeting place into the darkness of the night...but run they must.
Give me an old time preacher man whose very marrow of his bones are aflame with the APOSTOLIC, ONE God truth until the church is established, unshakable, unmovable as a giant oak planted by the living waters.
I recall that young Nathaniel Urshan was the assistant Pastor to a Rev. Raymond G. Hoekstra in Indianpolis. Raymond G. Hoekstra was a solid ONE God preacher in those days. He preached it until his church was firmly planted on the rock, unshakable, unmovable.
Then he left for a while to manage a young celebrity preacher by the name of "Little David," leaving the church in the care of young Urshan. But, while Hoekstra was out on the road managing Little David, he began to comprise the Oneness with the Trinitarians. Finally, fully compromised, he returned to take his church back, but it was too late. The church rejected him, choosing to stay with the One God truth.
Hoekstra started another church in town but Urshan did not loose but one family to the charm of Hoekstra...though a mighty orator that he was. Urshan kept the church. Today, it is still on the SOLID ROCK. PRAISE GOD!!! I think I'll just shout a while. EXCUSE ME!
So, someone who preaches the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments is lost (along with Christ crucified) but someone who teaches a variety of errors but the "ONENESS of Gawd" is granted all the leeway in the world....
Sad.
And no, we don't need it to be DISPLAYED A 7TH TIME!
as wonderful as both the first and second commandments are, even these two pillars of the Judeo Christian ethos are not the Gospel.
One can believe that God is a tomato and teach both Commandments one and two. you would still be as lost as two boys kissing.
Right along side of judges!!!!!!!!!
While some of these men set themselves up and force their preferences and convictions on folks as though they are mandates for their salvation.
Ill tell you what THEY will give account and if ONE soul loses out because of their control freak mentality....THEY are as lost as the worst sinner or trinitarian!
That is right, lets make sure we include aaaaaalllllll the triple judgmental rapscallions trying to get girls to wear skirts in the "GOD will judge"
but lets all keep in mind that the great Jerry Falwell is sitting on banks of the river of life, having decieved hundreds of thousands and sent thousands of ministers forth into the fields with a false doctrine.
Yea bro, lets do that.
Give me an old time preacher whose message is the APOSTOLIC message of ONE God, ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE church, ONE plan of salvation until heaven falls, the bottom is knocked out of hell, demons hunt for hiding places and sinners and the hipocrites run to the altar crying for God's mercy or runs out of the meeting place into the darkness of the night...but run they must.
Give me an old time preacher man whose very marrow of his bones are aflame with the APOSTOLIC, ONE God truth until the church is established, unshakable, unmovable as a giant oak planted by the living waters.
I recall that young Nathaniel Urshan was the assistant Pastor to a Rev. Raymond G. Hoekstra in Indianpolis. Raymond G. Hoekstra was a solid ONE God preacher in those days. He preached it until his church was firmly planted on the rock, unshakable, unmovable.
Then he left for a while to manage a young celebrity preacher by the name of "Little David," leaving the church in the care of young Urshan. But, while Hoekstra was out on the road managing Little David, he began to comprise the Oneness with the Trinitarians. Finally, fully compromised, he returned to take his church back, but it was too late. The church rejected him, choosing to stay with the One God truth.
Hoekstra started another church in town but Urshan did not loose but one family to the charm of Hoekstra...though a mighty orator that he was. Urshan kept the church. Today, it is still on the SOLID ROCK. PRAISE GOD!!! I think I'll just shout a while. EXCUSE ME!
GLG SR went up to Indy to be with NAU during those trying times. If memory serves, latter rain reared it's ugly head as well?
Brother Strange
08-03-2007, 06:49 AM
GLG SR went up to Indy to be with NAU during those trying times. If memory serves, latter rain reared it's ugly head as well?
Yes. I recall that too.
warrior
08-03-2007, 07:38 AM
Well there is so much more of God after the one God message. I think we are unbalanced if that is all we want to hear. Hence the reason we are so acceptable of the other errors. After one God there isn't anything taught correctly and you shower down your blessing on that preacher because he teaches the one God message. Eat the whole role.
Well there is so much more of God after the one God message. I think we are unbalanced if that is all we want to hear. Hence the reason we are so acceptable of the other errors. After one God there isn't anything taught correctly and you shower down your blessing on that preacher because he teaches the one God message. Eat the whole role.
Brother Warrior, who is denying any aspect of God here? certanily not those of us committed to the Water Spirit message.
the difference here is, we believe one must get on the road.
Jerry Falwell, never got on the road. Not one day in his life was he ever on the road but according to the council of AFF, he is sitting on the banks of the river of life eating the golden apples from the garden of hesperides!
SCJ, having not only been on the ROAD, but having committed thousand to the same road, has been condemned to the lowest level of hell for having a taillight out!
Brother Strange
08-03-2007, 07:59 AM
Well there is so much more of God after the one God message. I think we are unbalanced if that is all we want to hear. Hence the reason we are so acceptable of the other errors. After one God there isn't anything taught correctly and you shower down your blessing on that preacher because he teaches the one God message. Eat the whole role.
I ate the whole roll. It was sweet to my mouth but bitter to the stomach.
I once had the same attitude that you have. I had always believed the truth of One God as a matter of theological accuracy.
I always believed it from that perspective until I went to Alexandria in 1961. G. A. Mangun went totally crazy...went wild....went totally nuts....lost his ever-lovin'-mind.
I thought, "whasadealhereenneyway?" I wondered, "Can't the man find anything else from the Word of God to preach?" Little did I understand. He had much more wisdom than this tall skinny blackheaded boy understood. Then, the same fire that was in the very marrow of his bones deeply, profoundly, permanently affected me. I saw the glory of the Lord in it.
This revelation knowledge that supercedes all theological discussion, far above all wisdom and understanding of matters of mere deliberation is a world or a realm all of its own that can be little understood by the most profound deliberation.
It is the penacle of understanding. All truth flows down from this summit, though sometimes missed by the best among us, leaving us in error in some areas. But the light shines from above from who is the Light of this city of God
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 08:04 AM
Well there is so much more of God after the one God message. I think we are unbalanced if that is all we want to hear. Hence the reason we are so acceptable of the other errors. After one God there isn't anything taught correctly and you shower down your blessing on that preacher because he teaches the one God message. Eat the whole role.
Warrior a man has to believe that God is ONE, and that a man must believe and teach that Jesus Name baptism is the ONLY way to fully submerse, water baptize new converts. A man must believe that the Holy Ghost in filling is evidenced by the speaking in other tongues as the Holy Ghost gives the utterance, the ability.
After that we are all on a learning curve and following Jesus as He leads us through teaching and preaching. We are to search the scriptures daily and to be good students of the word. Through walking with the Lord we should all come to the maturity that is in Christ.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 08:08 AM
One God is who we are Jesus name is who we are and that's why the Assembly of gods call us JESUS ONLY. Our music proclaims that One GOD message and the power of that One God NAME, which is JESUS!!!
ONE ONE ONE ONE WAY TO GOD, ONE ONE ONE ONE WAY TO GOD BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME!
warrior
08-03-2007, 08:49 AM
First, I am not a brother. I am a sister.
Now, I am not denying the one way message or in no way am I minimizing the one way message. I believe a great deal of Johnson's teachings were hugely flawed and filled with error. Yes, he brought those in the fold but lost many I am sure with the unecessary rules and dogmatic treatment.
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 09:58 AM
First, I am not a brother. I am a sister.
Now, I am not denying the one way message or in no way am I minimizing the one way message. I believe a great deal of Johnson's teachings were hugely flawed and filled with error. Yes, he brought those in the fold but lost many I am sure with the unecessary rules and dogmatic treatment.
Who did he lose? You bring up an interesting thought. Aren't WE as individuals to WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION? I said that to say this aren't we to search the scripture daily? Look WELL at our going? I think our walk is more on our backs than on the backs of others. If the minister is bringing the mail and you refuse it it's on you, and if the minister brings the mail and you don't make sure it's yours, it's still on you. If the minister is delivering the wrong mail and you didn't check it out that's your problem.
I would apologize for calling you a Brother but there is no way of knowing from your handle.
Lord bless you Sister.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
warrior
08-03-2007, 10:14 AM
Who did he lose? You bring up an interesting thought. Aren't WE as individuals to WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION? I said that to say this aren't we to search the scripture daily? Look WELL at our going? I think our walk is more on our backs than on the backs of others. If the minister is bringing the mail and you refuse it it's on you, and if the minister brings the mail and you don't make sure it's yours, it's still on you. If the minister is delivering the wrong mail and you didn't check it out that's your problem.
I would apologize for calling you a Brother but there is no way of knowing from your handle.
Lord bless you Sister.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
You should apologize anyway.:drama
Yes, but the Bible says woe unto the shepherd that scatters the flock. So there is accountability for both parties.
First, I am not a brother. I am a sister.
Now, I am not denying the one way message or in no way am I minimizing the one way message. I believe a great deal of Johnson's teachings were hugely flawed and filled with error. Yes, he brought those in the fold but lost many I am sure with the unecessary rules and dogmatic treatment.
sorry sister. I should have known that......
You wont get me to defend anyone's error.
and honestly I have never once seen you attempt to put a trinitarian in heaven.
but others who have said SCJ will answer to God, have in fact argued that the likes of Jerry Falwell are in heaven walking the streets of gold.
Now I have no need to speak ill of the dead, but is sure smacks of hypocricy when some folk will call an Apostolic Lost and a guy who saw Apostolics as heritics as saved. dont make no sense to me.
RevDWW
08-03-2007, 11:33 AM
sorry sister. I should have known that......
You wont get me to defend anyone's error.
and honestly I have never once seen you attempt to put a trinitarian in heaven.
but others who have said SCJ will answer to God, have in fact argued that the likes of Jerry Falwell are in heaven walking the streets of gold.
Now I have no need to speak ill of the dead, but is sure smacks of hypocricy when some folk will call an Apostolic Lost and a guy who saw Apostolics as heritics as saved. dont make no sense to me.
That's because you are looking through smarmy colored glasses.........
That's because you are looking through smarmy colored glasses.........
well someone has to keep up with the smarm.
RevDWW
08-03-2007, 12:13 PM
well someone has to keep up with the smarm.
You are smarmy to the max..........
The Lord bless you real good. Dan, read your post, YOU ARE saying that THEY will give an account if ONE soul loses out because of their control freak meantality? Whose the judge? Who are you talking about? You need to cool out man. Your act is starting to get old.
Hey Dan go get a shotgun and shoot me already. Just don't bore me to death. :)
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Dear Bro. Ego Trip,
That post was not directed at you........
My "act"?
Sorry Bro. No act here....what you see is what you get.
Just can't stand it... is this the 8th now?
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure
I still like it!
Amazing...admin can spam the thread.....but let one of us try it.
freeatlast
08-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Amazing...admin can spam the thread.....but let one of us try it.
Spammers will be harshly judged.
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 03:20 PM
You should apologize anyway.:drama
Yes, but the Bible says woe unto the shepherd that scatters the flock. So there is accountability for both parties.
That scripture is talking about a fallen priesthood of Israel who are in sin prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzer. If the leadership is invovled in sin and the people are following that leadership both will fall into a ditch. If the man is teaching baptism in Jesus name for the remiison of sins and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the initail evidence of speaking with other tongues and the LITERAL ONE GOD whose name is JESUS. Then those people can take the ball and run with it.
Pro 14:8 The wisdom of the prudent is to UNDERSTAND HIS WAY: but the folly of fools is deceit.
Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh WELL to his going.
The preacher will have to give an account but so will the saint.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 03:27 PM
Dear Bro. Ego Trip,
That post was not directed at you........
My "act"?
Sorry Bro. No act here....what you see is what you get.
Dan, but it is an act, because you would never do this to me in person. Don't take it personal Dan, the thrill is gone. Oh the post wasn't directed at me? Allright, praise Jesus.
Have fun here on the forum. :)
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Amazing...admin can spam the thread.....but let one of us try it.
Spammers will be harshly judged.
Tell me about it.....
EB and the rest of the works-based Water and Spirit sacramentarian crowd.... when they see who made it to heaven
http://www.ttuhsc.edu/it/images/surprisedMan.jpg
QUE???
RandyWayne
08-03-2007, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by NLYP View Post
Amazing...admin can spam the thread.....but let one of us try it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
Spammers will be harshly judged.
Thinking that same thing..... In fact I just might post THIS 20 times..... In 72 pt GOLD letters.
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 04:18 PM
EB and the rest of the works-based Water and Spirit sacramentarian crowd.... when they see who made it to heaven
http://www.ttuhsc.edu/it/images/surprisedMan.jpg
QUE???
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/scared-monkey.png
Brother Daniel Alicea and the rest of the all-roads-lead-to-heaven crowd.... when they see who didn't make it to heaven
RandyWayne
08-03-2007, 04:28 PM
ME ..... in heaven.
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/news/images/0302/thor.jpg
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 04:39 PM
ME ..... in heaven.
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/news/images/0302/thor.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/250px-Manuscript_thorr.jpg
RW this is what you would really look after you crossed the Bifrost Bridge.
RandyWayne
08-03-2007, 04:44 PM
I prefer the Marvel/Mighty Avengers version MUCH better.
Amazing...admin can spam the thread.....but let one of us try it.
they let me try it.
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 05:02 PM
they let me try it.
That's because you know how to make roux.
Dan, but it is an act, because you would never do this to me in person. Don't take it personal Dan, the thrill is gone. Oh the post wasn't directed at me? Allright, praise Jesus.
Have fun here on the forum. :)
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
LOLOLOL ASK ANYBODY that knows me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOLOLOL ASK ANYBODY that knows me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
? I thought everybody knows you?
Everyone here seems to be well educated in the UPCI. I was wondering has anyone heard of Bishop SC Johnson and his apostolic teachings. He is considered one the main pioneers among apostolics in the African American community. If you know about him and his teachings, please share what you know. I am sure Bro. Sam knows about this gentleman. We have discussed him before.
Yes, he is well versed in apostolic history.
Is this the same person pages and pages of discussion have been posted on over at GNC?
Is this the same person pages and pages of discussion have been posted on over at GNC?
yes.
PoorWiddleMe
08-03-2007, 07:31 PM
Is this the same person who had such a big church there had to be a whole section of the church with rows of nursery cribs? I have heard what I thought was folklore but maybe it was true.
Old Paths
08-03-2007, 07:35 PM
Me thinks, some folks around here wouldn't be qualified/worthy to carry the Bishop's water glass, much less judge him right or wrong.
jmo
Evang.Benincasa
08-03-2007, 11:55 PM
LOLOLOL ASK ANYBODY that knows me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oooh you're a real bad guy Dan. I think you would start spewing four letter words after a while huh Dan? You think you might swing on me, if we met face to face?
What would these people say about you Daniel? That you get out of hand real quick and lose your control and start to come un-hinged when you can't think of anything to say when you're verbally pressed?
Dan, you know something you don't like me. I accept that. I feel you may even hate my guts. I accept that. Dan, I'm trying to hang around here and post. I was sent a letter in my e-mail and in my PM that we are now to behave ourselves as best as we can. I will endeavor to do just that. So your love affair with me I will have to let go. I think the two times we were banned together was enough to learn that we don't play well together.
Have fun and enjoy yourself on AFF, and I will try to do the same. I will do my very best to behave myself while I'm on this forum, and I will try to answer your posts in a way not to get me banned. I still really do believe that you would never act the way you do here if we were in person. If you did I think they would have to peel you off me with a shovel. Because I'm pretty witty in person. Nothing harsh or vulgar I assure you. I just can be charming when I come in contact with the pious and pompous religious left. :)
So alas dear Daniel, I will tell you that I will not get into a fight with you, even though that's what you want to happen.
Lord bless you real good.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Me thinks, some folks around here wouldn't be qualified/worthy to carry the Bishop's water glass, much less judge him right or wrong.
jmo
Me thinks he could carry his own water.
Oooh you're a real bad guy Dan. I think you would start spewing four letter words after a while huh Dan? You think you might swing on me, if we met face to face?
What would these people say about you Daniel? That you get out of hand real quick and lose your control and start to come un-hinged when you can't think of anything to say when you're verbally pressed?
Dan, you know something you don't like me. I accept that. I feel you may even hate my guts. I accept that. Dan, I'm trying to hang around here and post. I was sent a letter in my e-mail and in my PM that we are now to behave ourselves as best as we can. I will endeavor to do just that. So your love affair with me I will have to let go. I think the two times we were banned together was enough to learn that we don't play well together.
Have fun and enjoy yourself on AFF, and I will try to do the same. I will do my very best to behave myself while I'm on this forum, and I will try to answer your posts in a way not to get me banned. I still really do believe that you would never act the way you do here if we were in person. If you did I think they would have to peel you off me with a shovel. Because I'm pretty witty in person. Nothing harsh or vulgar I assure you. I just can be charming when I come in contact with the pious and pompous religious left. :)
So alas dear Daniel, I will tell you that I will not get into a fight with you, even though that's what you want to happen.
Lord bless you real good.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Not looking for a fight.
What I find amazing is that just because I quote you and resond to some of the things you happen to be saying does not mean that I am trying to get back into the past of mud slinging with you.
So your wit with words and your might with the pen is ill appreciated here on my part.
Who knows someday we might meet face to face.....ill be me and you be you and we shall see.....
NO problems here...
I for one would appreciate it if you would stop insinuating otherwise.
Thanks
Brother Strange
08-04-2007, 06:27 AM
I've know Dan a long time. I am afraid that he comes across in ways that does not really depict his real self causing him to be sometimes misunderstood.
While I would not defend one liberal bone in Dan, I will say of him that I know him to be a fine young man totally dedicated to the work of God and lover of souls. Give Dan a chance to be an encouragement, a help, a friend when the chips are down, Dan will come through every time.
In all honesty, I believe that if our esteemed brother Ben (whom I love very much) had an opportunity to know Dan as I do, he would find a different person that what comes across to him here on this forum.
I've heard Dan pray, I've seen his dedication, I know his love and joy in serving the Lord with a willing heart. A tad on the liberal side is he for sure, but not so much that it will keep him out of heaven...:D :D :D
Now Dan...Jerry Falwell is NOT walking on streets of Gold! :killinme
Rhoni
08-04-2007, 06:31 AM
I've know Dan a long time. I am afraid that he comes across in ways that does not really depict his real self causing him to be sometimes misunderstood.
While I would not defend one liberal bone in Dan, I will say of him that I know him to be a fine young man totally dedicated to the work of God and lover of souls. Give Dan a chance to be an encouragement, a help, a friend when the chips are down, Dan will come through every time.
In all honesty, I believe that if our esteemed brother Ben (whom I love very much) had an opportunity to know Dan as I do, he would find a different person that what comes across to him here on this forum.
I've heard Dan pray, I've seen his dedication, I know his love and joy in serving the Lord with a willing heart. A tad on the liberal side is he for sure, but not so much that it will keep him out of heaven...:D :D :D
Now Dan...Jerry Falwell is NOT walking on streets of Gold! :killinme
Bro. Strange,
How do you know this? About Falwell...I don't think any of us can truly know about any of us.
Blessings, Rhoni
Brother Strange
08-04-2007, 06:46 AM
Bro. Strange,
How do you know this? About Falwell...I don't think any of us can truly know about any of us.
Blessings, Rhoni
How do I know? How do I know, INDEED, how do I know!
Listen to the song that S.C. Johnson sung. Here are the words.
One, one, one,
One way to God
One, one, one,
One way to God
One, one, one,
One way to God
Baptized in Jesus name
One, one, one
one wa...you get the picture....
See...THAT proves it.
Bishop S. C. Johnson personally sung it himself.
:killinme :killinme :killinme
Rhoni
08-04-2007, 06:49 AM
How do I know? How do I know, INDEED, how do I know!
Listen to the song that S.C. Johnson sung. Here are the words.
One, one, one,
One way to God
One, one, one,
One way to God
One, one, one,
One way to God
Baptized in Jesus name
One, one, one
one wa...you get the picture....
See...THAT proves it.
Bishop S. C. Johnson personally sung it himself.
:killinme :killinme :killinme
Well, then that settles it...obviously!:choir
Brother Strange
08-04-2007, 07:06 AM
Well, then that settles it...obviously!:choir
Yes m'am...
Bet he is now sorry that he told people that speaking in tongues was of the devil.
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 07:56 AM
Not looking for a fight.
What I find amazing is that just because I quote you and resond to some of the things you happen to be saying does not mean that I am trying to get back into the past of mud slinging with you.
So your wit with words and your might with the pen is ill appreciated here on my part.
Who knows someday we might meet face to face.....ill be me and you be you and we shall see.....
NO problems here...
I for one would appreciate it if you would stop insinuating otherwise.
Thanks
Dan, I was raised around some very interesting individuals and gained perception from these people that have often come to be a great help in my apostolic life. Lord bless Elder Strange, for his kindness and speaking in your defense. Lord sweetly bless Elder Strange. Dan, there's no problem with me on your level of displays of dislike. I could care less what anyone would say about me or to me. I understand totally how people let their fingers do the talking and not their brain. I have been misunderstood on this forum as well as you.
Dan one thing, you really don't like me at all and I have noticed and so have others who informed me that you don't like me. That's cool and I don't expect you to lose sleep over it. I understand that their are people on this forum who are in no way shape of form even close to being or wanting to be Christian. I have been around these forums long enough. In saying all that and without wanting to bore you any further, I just want to say it's been interesting. Nothing taken personally on my end. I just wanted to let you know that I know how you feel towards me and that I will no longer go back and forth with you or anyone else on this forum to that point that everyone gets thrown out in the parking lot. I have strong feelings about what I believe and I make those feelings known. You have strong feelings about what you believe (shudder) and you make those feelings known.
I'm not at all insinuating anything Brother Daniel I'm stating a fact Bro.
It's all good, and Brother go forward and continue with what ever you please.
I am just telling you that you and your Mickey Mouse can have a good time.
I will no longer place myself in a position to get my self banned because you wanted to dance on the table with me with a lampshade on your head.
In JESUS NAME
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 08:00 AM
I've know Dan a long time. I am afraid that he comes across in ways that does not really depict his real self causing him to be sometimes misunderstood.
While I would not defend one liberal bone in Dan, I will say of him that I know him to be a fine young man totally dedicated to the work of God and lover of souls. Give Dan a chance to be an encouragement, a help, a friend when the chips are down, Dan will come through every time.
In all honesty, I believe that if our esteemed brother Ben (whom I love very much) had an opportunity to know Dan as I do, he would find a different person that what comes across to him here on this forum.
I've heard Dan pray, I've seen his dedication, I know his love and joy in serving the Lord with a willing heart. A tad on the liberal side is he for sure, but not so much that it will keep him out of heaven...:D :D :D
Now Dan...Jerry Falwell is NOT walking on streets of Gold! :killinme
Elder Strange Lord bless you and your wonderful family and the Elders who taught you through out your life.
In Jesus Name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
The Dean
08-04-2007, 09:27 AM
Amazing...admin can spam the thread.....but let one of us try it.
Oh contrare', NLYP. That wasn't spam; that was an expression of total agreement.
Something I still agree with, by the way.
Oh contrare', NLYP. That wasn't spam; that was an expression of total agreement.
Something I still agree with, by the way.
2 UCs agreed w/ you and you call that total agreement .... there is a spirit of delusion in this thread.
Dan, I was raised around some very interesting individuals and gained perception from these people that have often come to be a great help in my apostolic life. Lord bless Elder Strange, for his kindness and speaking in your defense. Lord sweetly bless Elder Strange. Dan, there's no problem with me on your level of displays of dislike. I could care less what anyone would say about me or to me. I understand totally how people let their fingers do the talking and not their brain. I have been misunderstood on this forum as well as you.
Dan one thing, you really don't like me at all and I have noticed and so have others who informed me that you don't like me. That's cool and I don't expect you to lose sleep over it. I understand that their are people on this forum who are in no way shape of form even close to being or wanting to be Christian. I have been around these forums long enough. In saying all that and without wanting to bore you any further, I just want to say it's been interesting. Nothing taken personally on my end. I just wanted to let you know that I know how you feel towards me and that I will no longer go back and forth with you or anyone else on this forum to that point that everyone gets thrown out in the parking lot. I have strong feelings about what I believe and I make those feelings known. You have strong feelings about what you believe (shudder) and you make those feelings known.
I'm not at all insinuating anything Brother Daniel I'm stating a fact Bro.
It's all good, and Brother go forward and continue with what ever you please.
I am just telling you that you and your Mickey Mouse can have a good time.
I will no longer place myself in a position to get my self banned because you wanted to dance on the table with me with a lampshade on your head.
In JESUS NAME
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
You know....you had me until once again you cannot go without the dig and the slam.
The bolded parts were quite unnecessary.....
I have never ever said I did not like you personally....however we have crossed swords over ideologies. and thats ok.
You dont have to say "shudder" and you dont have to ad the fact that we are at disney and you certainly dont have to add the "table with the lampshade comment"
Are you not even able to explain yourself, and even reach out to someone without being like this?????
And please..please stop with the digs and end everything you say "In Jesus Name", because I can assure you Jesus has Nothing to do with alot of what comes out of your mouth and does not condone it nor does he smile upon it.
I am sure that can also be said of some of my posts......but I certainly dont justify MY stupidity at times by invoking that greatest name under heaven.
Oh well.....Thanks Bro Strange for your words.
I do know that while you will not defend one liberal bone in this body...the important thing is that I know you love every bone in my body and THAT makes it all worth while!
I agree Benny, its not worth a ban to continue to listen and even respond to some of your nonsense.....so lets just have a mutual respect for each other, I for one am quite able to do that.
2 UCs agreed w/ you and you call that total agreement .... there is a spirit of delusion in this thread.
:killinme
The Dean
08-04-2007, 01:01 PM
2 UCs agreed w/ you and you call that total agreement .... there is a spirit of delusion in this thread.
Uh, Dan (both of you in fact), I don't need ANYBODY to agree with my opinion to be TOTALLY in agreement with a statement myself.
Did I say everyone agreed? Nope. Did I emphatically let it be known that I'm in TOTAL agreement with the statement I reposted? Yes. Perhaps the 'spirit of delusion' is at work - on your end.
Fortunately I'm in a good mood today. I'll help you out; you're forgiven.
Old Paths
08-04-2007, 03:09 PM
Uh, Dan (both of you in fact), I don't need ANYBODY to agree with my opinion to be TOTALLY in agreement with a statement myself.
Did I say everyone agreed? Nope. Did I emphatically let it be known that I'm in TOTAL agreement with the statement I reposted? Yes. Perhaps the 'spirit of delusion' is at work - on your end.
Fortunately I'm in a good mood today. I'll help you out; you're forgiven.
What a Christian attitude!
WONDERFUL.
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 03:14 PM
Hey what was this thread about?
Hey what was this thread about?
how you can beat up NLYP and how much smarter Dan is than Dean
and how once again I am right.
Scott Hutchinson
08-04-2007, 03:17 PM
I thought this thread was about women being lost who wear nylon hose.
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 03:18 PM
how you can beat up NLYP and how much smarter Dan is than Dean
and how once again I am right.
I've been thinking about this for a while (not to get off topic, but) what is the quickest way to make roux?
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 03:19 PM
I thought this thread was about women being lost who wear nylon hose.
What about high heels and open toe shoes.
I've been thinking about this for a while (not to get off topic, but) what is the quickest way to make roux?
Buy it. yup that is right I said buy it. but you have to buy the stuff in the glass jar. not some nasty powder. it is pretty good.
Now If you are going to make it yourself, you have 2 options
fast.
top of the stove. but be extremely careful because you will burn the stufff really fast. it takes 20 to 25 minutes and you have to stir 100% of the time. NO BREAKS
long (prefered)
oven. just keep it wet.
what ever way, start with a one to one ratio. oil and flour. use a good oil like Peanut, canola, corn, veggie.
you want it to be runny. once it is cooked let it set and a lot of the oil will rise to the surface and you can drain.
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 03:32 PM
Buy it. yup that is right I said buy it. but you have to buy the stuff in the glass jar. not some nasty powder. it is pretty good.
Now If you are going to make it yourself, you have 2 options
fast.
top of the stove. but be extremely careful because you will burn the stufff really fast. it takes 20 to 25 minutes and you have to stir 100% of the time. NO BREAKS
long (prefered)
oven. just keep it wet.
what ever way, start with a one to one ratio. oil and flour. use a good oil like Peanut, canola, corn, veggie.
you want it to be runny. once it is cooked let it set and a lot of the oil will rise to the surface and you can drain.
I can live with the bottled but cannot find it anywhere in Fort Lauderdale Florida. Gumbo down here is the equivalent of chicken soup.
My wife uses olive oil in her roux. I want to make my own Gumbo and a pastor in Vidor Texas made the best gumbo I have ever had. If I could only duplicate that gumbo I would be very happy.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Old Paths
08-04-2007, 03:34 PM
I can live with the bottled but cannot find it anywhere in Fort Lauderdale Florida. Gumbo down here is the equivalent of chicken soup.
My wife uses olive oil in her roux. I want to make my own Gumbo and a pastor in Vidor Texas made the best gumbo I have ever had. If I could only duplicate that gumbo I would be very happy.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
?????
The Dean
08-04-2007, 05:33 PM
how you can beat up NLYP and how much smarter Dan is than Dean
and how once again I am right.
:nah Surely you jest.
:killinme
Ironically I noticed I never got an apology. But, then again, with already being forgiven and all it wasn't really necessary!
I can live with the bottled but cannot find it anywhere in Fort Lauderdale Florida. Gumbo down here is the equivalent of chicken soup.
My wife uses olive oil in her roux. I want to make my own Gumbo and a pastor in Vidor Texas made the best gumbo I have ever had. If I could only duplicate that gumbo I would be very happy.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
check the recipe forum. my gumbo recipe is there. it is chicken and sausage. that is the base gumbo. get that right, then you can change it up.
you really need to use an oil that has a neutral flavor. Olive Oil doesnt work the best because it has a low smoke point and too much flavor.
REAL CAJUNS use chicken fat for their roux
:nah Surely you jest.
:killinme
Ironically I noticed I never got an apology. But, then again, with already being forgiven and all it wasn't really necessary!
well, I didnt say it was true....
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 08:15 PM
check the recipe forum. my gumbo recipe is there. it is chicken and sausage. that is the base gumbo. get that right, then you can change it up.
you really need to use an oil that has a neutral flavor. Olive Oil doesnt work the best because it has a low smoke point and too much flavor.
Explain why the need for the low smoke point?
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 08:16 PM
REAL CAJUNS use chicken fat for their roux
Could you explain why and how it's done?
Evang.Benincasa
08-04-2007, 08:16 PM
What's was the thread topic agian?
Old Paths
08-05-2007, 09:14 PM
I can live with the bottled but cannot find it anywhere in Fort Lauderdale Florida. Gumbo down here is the equivalent of chicken soup.
My wife uses olive oil in her roux. I want to make my own Gumbo and a pastor in Vidor Texas made the best gumbo I have ever had. If I could only duplicate that gumbo I would be very happy.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
If you would pm your address I will see what I can do for ya.
Evang.Benincasa
08-05-2007, 09:16 PM
If you would pm your address I will see what I can do for ya.
Thanks Elder. :)
warrior
08-06-2007, 06:02 AM
It would be nice if you wanted to talk about other things besides what the thread was about that you would start another one. It is very rude to take over someone's thread with this foolishness and refuse to get back on topic.
It would be nice if you wanted to talk about other things besides what the thread was about that you would start another one. It is very rude to take over someone's thread with this foolishness and refuse to get back on topic.
http://respiracreative.com/hijack.jpg
Could you explain why and how it's done?
Somke Point is the temp at wich an oil will begin to smoke and taste burned.
Olive oil tends to burn below 350 degrees Canola and Peanut oil have a high smoke point closer to 400.
for roux, the higher smoke point is needed because flour needs a high temp to toast. (really all you are doing when you make roux is toast raw flour.
For Chicken fat roux.
when you make Gumbo right, the first thing you do is boil a chicken. this renders the fat and it comes to the top. if you want to use the chicken fat for your roux, the easiest way is to make the stock/cook the chicken, the day before.
you simply remove the meat and strain off all the solids, then put the stock in the fridge. The chicken fat will come to the surface and get hard. the next day, just remove that layer of fat.
to use this fat for the roux, treat it just like you would the oil heat is to melt, add your flour and add a little Canola oil to get the right mixture and you are off. it works great and has lots of flavor. it is also a LOT more unhealty.
In an effort to not be rude, If Jerry Falwell is in heaven, SCJ and his anti-red socs doctrine is also in heaven...without question.
Steve Epley
08-06-2007, 04:57 PM
This poor illiterate black preacher left South Carolina and built the LARGEST church auditorium in Philadelphia. Pa. they had 4500 ADULT members on roll. He built and bought churches in over 70 cities in the USA. He had the largest Apostolic radio network in it's day he was on an hour 7 nights a week. He baptized thousands in Jesus Name. Filled the Gator Bowl in a crusade in Jacksonville, Fla. Debated the Campbellites until he ran them for the hills. Offered $500,000 every broadcast for someone to prove him wrong. He preached vis shortwave around the world weekly.Did I agree with everything he said? No. Was he a man of God? Sure was. Most will never do in an entire life of what he did in one day. Have his followers overstepped? Yes they have.
Bishop Johnson preached the new birth, one God, holiness message and built a MEGA(probably Pentecost's first) in doing so.
OP_Carl
08-06-2007, 06:13 PM
This poor illiterate black preacher left South Carolina and built the LARGEST church auditorium in Philadelphia. Pa. they had 4500 ADULT members on roll. . . . Bishop Johnson preached the new birth, one God, holiness message and built a MEGA(probably Pentecost's first) in doing so.
The Right Reverend Steven Epley, Hist'ry Perfessor Extraordinaire!
Thanks, bro!
It would be nice if you wanted to talk about other things besides what the thread was about that you would start another one. It is very rude to take over someone's thread with this foolishness and refuse to get back on topic.
Welcome to AFF. That happens a lot around here, so get used to it. The thread will eventually get back on topic, not that I have been keeping up on it all that much. I got burned out discussing this fella over on GNC. The same thing is gonna happen here that happened there, NO AGREEMENT, but AFF is used to that sort of thing! :)
Steve Epley
08-06-2007, 08:48 PM
Bishop Johnson was a colorful preacher man haved tried to imitate him but none have duplicated him. I wish he would have trained men to follow him and take over his works but his lack of foresight left his works to be scattered and much of it destroyed.
His announcer (Elder Selby) would say " Now I present to you the world's foremost authority and interpeter of the Divine Word of God the last day Apostle now the next voice you hear will be that of Bishop S. C. Johnson hear ye him."
(then you would hear)
Thank God there is One-One-One One way to God.
His reader Howard Davis was the very best.
I enjoyed him greatly. I heard a broadcast where they were playing him on WLW out of New Orleans on Sat. night sometime back around 11pm.
Bishop Johnson was a colorful preacher man haved tried to imitate him but none have duplicated him. I wish he would have trained men to follow him and take over his works but his lack of foresight left his works to be scattered and much of it destroyed.
His announcer (Elder Selby) would say " Now I present to you the world's foremost authority and interpeter of the Divine Word of God the last day Apostle now the next voice you hear will be that of Bishop S. C. Johnson hear ye him."
(then you would hear)
Thank God there is One-One-One One way to God.
His reader Howard Davis was the very best.
I enjoyed him greatly. I heard a broadcast where they were playing him on WLW out of New Orleans on Sat. night sometime back around 11pm.
Someone posted some links to be able to hear some of his preaching, debates, or something like that, over on GNC. I wasn't very impressed. He ministered during the height of what I am referring to as the "Dictator Era" of the apostolic church.
Steve Epley
08-07-2007, 07:27 AM
Someone posted some links to be able to hear some of his preaching, debates, or something like that, over on GNC. I wasn't very impressed. He ministered during the height of what I am referring to as the "Dictator Era" of the apostolic church.
The debate with Rudd at Houston was one of the funniest things I ever heard in my life. There was little or no order not educational mind you but FUNNY.
Mr. Rudd Jesus said you ought to wash ine another's feet and you say don't wash feet who lied??????????????:killinme:killinme:killinme
At the end of every service(Bishop Johnson had rented the hall) he would ask if anyone wanted to be baptized and baptized folks every service that must had galled those Campbellites. At the end of each discussion the Bishop would declare he had won that was so funny.:killinme:killinme:killinme
Steve Epley
08-07-2007, 08:53 PM
After Mr. Rudd (the Campbellite) had given his articulate speech for 30 minutes the Bishop's first words were "Mr. Rudd don't know NOTHING!!!!!!!"
It was rich.
warrior
08-08-2007, 11:19 AM
I have heard his messages as well. I am not very impressed with him, either. I will say that he does have the one way one God message right, but there are a lot of errors in his teachings. As far as debates are concerned, I think he won because he had the biggest mouth and declared himself the winner. I can't say that it was properly and fairly set up with a panel of judges and on neutral turf as they should have been. Johnson was nortorious for insulting people and saying negative things to them in debates. I don't know how that constitutes as a winner. In other words, I don't think the debates were set up in a fashion that they should have been to be fair.
Steve Epley
08-08-2007, 12:00 PM
I have heard his messages as well. I am not very impressed with him, either. I will say that he does have the one way one God message right, but there are a lot of errors in his teachings. As far as debates are concerned, I think he won because he had the biggest mouth and declared himself the winner. I can't say that it was properly and fairly set up with a panel of judges and on neutral turf as they should have been. Johnson was nortorious for insulting people and saying negative things to them in debates. I don't know how that constitutes as a winner. In other words, I don't think the debates were set up in a fashion that they should have been to be fair.
He WON. He baptized folks after nearly every service that makes him a winner there is NO record the Campbellites baptized anyone. The proof is in the pudding. He paid for the buildings he should have made the rules, they could have paid part but no they did not.
I do NOT know another Oneness preacher that built what he built and I am not speaking of physical buidlings alone. But he baptized thousands in Jesus Name and spread the message across the globe via radio. And he built it preaching an extreme standard of holiness.
No I disagreed with many of his ideas and teachings particulary concerning the Sonship. But he was an illiterate man that did more than ever expected of a man of his education. I have seen his churches in several locations all were nice buildings-his people stand out in their appearance and manner.
He like all of us had clay feet but I do not think one man could have ever done what he dne without the help of the Lord preaching what he was preaching.
He WON. He baptized folks after nearly every service that makes him a winner there is NO record the Campbellites baptized anyone. The proof is in the pudding. He paid for the buildings he should have made the rules, they could have paid part but no they did not.
I do NOT know another Oneness preacher that built what he built and I am not speaking of physical buidlings alone. But he baptized thousands in Jesus Name and spread the message across the globe via radio. And he built it preaching an extreme standard of holiness.
No I disagreed with many of his ideas and teachings particulary concerning the Sonship. But he was an illiterate man that did more than ever expected of a man of his education. I have seen his churches in several locations all were nice buildings-his people stand out in their appearance and manner.
He like all of us had clay feet but I do not think one man could have ever done what he dne without the help of the Lord preaching what he was preaching.
Brother Epley you are absolutly right!
warrior
08-08-2007, 01:04 PM
I am more than sure that we won't agree on this topic. I gave Johnson credit for those messages that I heard that he taught that were right. I can't get with him on the no son of God in heaven, all the man made rules and his take on marriage. Sorry! I commend him for the souls and the mission work he did, but you can't get angry because I don't agree with the majority of what he focused on.
From what I have heard of him and how he related to the ordinary man, he needed to be taught a thing or two about the love of Jesus Christ and compassion for your fellow man. How do you condemn someone for wearing nylon stockings? Please tell me.
I am more than sure that we won't agree on this topic. I gave Johnson credit for those messages that I heard that he taught that were right. I can't get with him on the no son of God in heaven, all the man made rules and his take on marriage. Sorry! I commend him for the souls and the mission work he did, but you can't get angry because I don't agree with the majority of what he focused on.
From what I have heard of him and how he related to the ordinary man, he needed to be taught a thing or two about the love of Jesus Christ and compassion for your fellow man. How do you condemn someone for wearing nylon stockings? Please tell me.
well, I aint mad at ya no way. I dont agree with SCJ on much of what you dont agree with him over.
but instead of him learning something about relating to ordinary men, I wish he were around to teach me something about reaching fifity thousand people.
ReformedDave
08-08-2007, 01:52 PM
He WON. He baptized folks after nearly every service that makes him a winner there is NO record the Campbellites baptized anyone. The proof is in the pudding.
You really don't believe this line of thought. If the proof really is in the pudding we trinitarians have won.
Steve Epley
08-10-2007, 11:45 AM
You really don't believe this line of thought. If the proof really is in the pudding we trinitarians have won.
Dave I was not speaking of just numbers but to be able to gather them with what he preached.
Zander
07-26-2008, 05:32 AM
Bishop Sherrod C. Johnson (1899-1961) was a dynamic African-American Oneness Pentecostal leader. He was born and raised in North Carolina and had a harsh life. Later he moved to Phildelphia that he heard of the water baptism in Jesus name and the pentecostal baptism of the Holy Spirit. He began his ministry in 1919, and soon aligned himself with Bishop R.C. Lawson's Refuge Church of Christ of the Apostolic Faith in Harlem, NY. It was in 1920 that Lawson sent Johnson to pastor the Phildelphia Church of Christ. Lawson appointed Johnson bishop over the states of Pennsylvania and North Carolina in 1930. It was in 1931 that Lawson incorporated his church as the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith (COOLJC) in 1931 and Johnson was one of the incorporators. It was in 1933 that Johnson withdrew from the COOLJC and founded the Church of The Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith (COTLJC), with his Phildelphian church being its headquarters. He was very evangelistic and his church grew to be inter-racial, through his many debates, gospel tours and radio network. At one time his Phildelphian church was one of the the largest Oneness churches in the United States. In the July 1949 issue of Ebony magazine he was listed as one of the most widely listened too, African-American preachers in the U.S. Johnson died during an evangelistic tour in Kingston, Jamaica, W.I. His denomination is still in existence today and is currently headed by Bishop Omega Shelton. Denominations that were birth through his ministry include the Holy Temple Church (Bishop R. Goodwin) and the Church in the Lord Jesus Christ (Bishop L. Hunter).
Zander
07-26-2008, 05:48 AM
Note that Bishop Johnson's fundamental teachings were that of his spiritual father Bishop Robert Clarence Lawson (1883- 1961). Bishop Lawson, then Elder Lawson resigned from the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW). Lawson differed with PAW over "divorce and remarriage" and "women preachers." Lawson also taught the sisters are to cover their heads when in prayers, therefore his women were noted has to wearing hats to church and adorning themselves in modest apparel. The current leader of Lawson's denomination is Bishop William Lee Bonner.
Dr. Vaughn
07-26-2008, 06:19 AM
You rang happy to be of service.
http://theholytemplechurch.org/21burningsubjects.htm
Love his understand of women preachers as well as Divorce & Remarriage
Dr. Vaughn
07-26-2008, 06:51 AM
We can't be saved through works. The fact that we introduced so many to Christ doesn't merit us the kingdom either. Our life and nothing more is what says if we will go back with Jesus when he comes.
aaahh the truth in PART..... you wont be saved through works but you will receive rewards by works
Zander
07-26-2008, 12:50 PM
Lawson differed with PAW over "divorce and remarriage" and "women preachers."
Lawson taught if one was divorce that they could not remarry unless the former spoused died. [see the Discipline Book of the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith] His doctrine in this matter is identical to that taught by the late William J. Seymour (1870-1922), Azusa Street Mission [see Martin,Larry (ed), The Doctrine & Discipline of the Azusa Street Apostolic Faith Mission]. G.T. Haywood (1880-1931), Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, at one time held to this view, but later changed his views. Lawson's view on divorce & remarriage became one of the fundamental tenets of his church and it is currently still the official view of the denomination. It current leader, Bishop William L. Bonner (1921- ), differs with Lawson's stand on this issue and has allowed those who have been divorce & remarried to function in his church (see Doctrinal Guide Solomon's Temple, The Second Opinion).
Dr. Vaughn
07-26-2008, 01:22 PM
I did say he was lost, but that he would give an accountinig for his error.
We so liberally give a free pass to our "One God brother"....just preach oneness and you can make up all the phony holiness rules that we have ever devised, even claim you've got scripture to back em up.
AND GOD will just wink at your ignorance.
But let a preacher be right on about eveything in the book, but let's say he say's in baptism, I baptize you in the F S and HG which is Jesus Christ and "we " call him lost.
Let him say three personallites and he's going to hell..while "we" say three offfices and we are OK.
Our inconsistency is laughable.
Now with that, God bless the "Bishop" SC Johnson
and what about if you have any errors?
martha
01-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Everyone here seems to be well educated in the UPCI. I was wondering has anyone heard of Bishop SC Johnson and his apostolic teachings. He is considered one the main pioneers among apostolics in the African American community. If you know about him and his teachings, please share what you know. I am sure Bro. Sam knows about this gentleman. We have discussed him before.
Yes, he is well versed in apostolic history.
Yes, I know of Bishop S. C. Johnson of 22nd Bainbridge St. in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. My family was members in his church. Bishop Johnson was a very kind man, although to hear him preach you wouldn't have thought it. He was gentle with his small congregations by whom is was greatly revered. It was by radio broadcast they the congregations across the country was held together. People went to church and listened to "the broadcast" on Sundays. The churches were honored with his presence occasionally. I was just a teenager when he died in 1961 in Kingston, Jamaica. His teaching was One Lord, One Faith, One baptism; Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, tarrying for the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues and continuing in the apostles' doctrine. Bishop S.M. Shelton took his place as bishop after his death, during which time there was great turmoil in the church with part of the members braking off from that congregation and forming other churches. There's one of his churches somewhere in New York that one of his original members in my state of kentucky attends whenever she can. She's 76 years old. The rest of the time she listens to tapes of Bishop Johnson's sermons at home. She holds church service alone, in her home and has hundreds of Bishop Johnson's sermons. She is a faithful member to his bishopric even to this day. Bishop Johnson was truly a man of God.
martha
01-27-2009, 10:34 PM
Someone posted some links to be able to hear some of his preaching, debates, or something like that, over on GNC. I wasn't very impressed. He ministered during the height of what I am referring to as the "Dictator Era" of the apostolic church.
[U]I wish he would have trained men to follow him and take over his works but his lack of foresight left his works to be scattered and much of it destroyed.
A2kylm: Bishop Johnson always said that the whole world must obey HIS gospel because he preached it just like they did on the day of pentecost. He never envisioned the coming of the internet where his sermons can be heard around the world and ordered on True world apolostic ministries of America site under Elder Walker out of Titusville, Florida. Yes, he said he was an apostle because everything he learned from the scriptures was revealed to him by God. And I have to say that HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT CONCERNING THE SCRIPTURE. Now I don't know if I would call it lack of foresight that he hadn't prepared anyone to take his place before he died. The man listened to God and I believe it was God's will that he not prepare anyone. God has His own way of doing things and it's not for us to say what God should have done. To this day, there are, here and there, those who have church in their homes, listen to Bishop Johnson's tapes and continue just as they did when he was alive. To be sure there's not many but there are some. And I know there's a church in New York and very likely other places that still follow bishop Johnson.
His announcer (Elder Selby) would say " Now I present to you the world's foremost authority and interpeter of the Divine Word of God the last day Apostle now the next voice you hear will be that of Bishop S. C. Johnson hear ye him."
I used to listen to him on the radio.
I remember Bishop S. McDowll Shelton also.
There used to be one of their churches here in Cincinnati.
I don't know if it's still active or not.
One day I called to see about the services.
I spoke with a woman there and she told me that they had no live preaching.
She said, "Some times we listen to Bishop Johnson and some times we listen to Bishop Shelton."
I've lost track of the different factions and groups that claim to be his true successors.
martha
01-27-2009, 10:56 PM
The debate with Rudd at Houston was one of the funniest things I ever heard in my life. There was little or no order not educational mind you but FUNNY.
Mr. Rudd Jesus said you ought to wash ine another's feet and you say don't wash feet who lied??????????????:killinme:killinme:killinme
At the end of every service(Bishop Johnson had rented the hall) he would ask if anyone wanted to be baptized and baptized folks every service that must had galled those Campbellites. At the end of each discussion the Bishop would declare he had won that was so funny.:killinme:killinme:killinme
a2kylm: Bishop Johnson had RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION for what he called FALSE PROPHETS. He spared no one who came up against him in those debates because he saw HEAVEN AND HELL/SALVATION AND LOSS OF SALVATION in the Gospel being preached to the people. He was very passionate about it but also very blunt. HE WASN'T PLAYIN' AND,YES, HE HAD TRULY WON. AND HE WOULD SOMETIMES SAY, "NOW, DO YOU WANT TO TURN YOUR CONGREGATION OVER TO ME, AFTER HE HAD WON?"
martha
01-27-2009, 11:12 PM
I used to listen to him on the radio.
I remember Bishop S. McDowll Shelton also.
There used to be one of their churches here in Cincinnati.
I don't know if it's still active or not.
One day I called to see about the services.
I spoke with a woman there and she told me that they had no live preaching.
She said, "Some times we listen to Bishop Johnson and some times we listen to Bishop Shelton."
I've lost track of the different factions and groups that claim to be his true successors.
Yes, the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith i still active in Cincinnati, at least it was last year. There are few members. The people have died off, the church buildings, purchased when Bishop Johnson was alive are old and in need of repair. The church is under the leadership of Bishop Omega now and has been since Bishop Shelton died. There was lots of turmoil when he died too, just as it was when Bishop Johnson died. I truly believe that God did not intend Bishop Johnson to designate another leader before he died because the church was never the same after he died. And I further believe that Bishop Johnson REALLY WAS THE LAST APOSTLE. If you recall, his theme song "Waterway, or Light in the Evening Time." His light still shines where it is sent across the country and like the original twelve when they were martyred, all except John, there has not been another apostle.
Perhaps you spoke with Sister Mayfield of the Cincinnati church but that must have been a long time ago. Bishop Shelton died in 1996.
martha
01-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Love his understand of women preachers as well as Divorce & Remarriage
a2kylm: Absolutely but are there any denominations today, other than those of Bishop Johnson, that preach against divorce and remarriage and women preachers? I know of only one who preached against divorce and remarriage and he was COGIC but he also believed in baptism in the Name of the Father and Of the Son And Of The Holy Ghost, instead of the Name of Jesus Christ. That's why Bishop Johnson called his ministry THE WHOLE TRUTH.
martha
01-27-2009, 11:44 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,684
Re: Bishop SC Johnson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast
I did say he was lost, but that he would give an accountinig for his error.
We so liberally give a free pass to our "One God brother"....just preach oneness and you can make up all the phony holiness rules that we have ever devised, even claim you've got scripture to back em up.
AND GOD will just wink at your ignorance.
A2KYLM: Bishop Johnson's theme was ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, IN WATER, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST WITH THE PROMISE OF THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST ACCORDING TO ACTS 2:38. That the same thing Jesus is saying in Matthew 28:19. These things, Bishop Johnon POUNDED AND POUNDED INTO THE HEADS OF THE PEOPLE because it is written that there si no other NAME under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved.
But let a preacher be right on about eveything in the book, but let's say he say's in baptism, I baptize you in the F S and HG which is Jesus Christ and "we " call him lost.
A2KYLM: Did you ever hear the old song, "I'm pressing on, trying to make a hundred, ninety nine and a half won't do? I wouldn't want to tell God Almighty, to his face, and it's always to his face, that I wanted to baptize my way, instead of his.
Let him say three personallites and he's going to hell..while "we" say three offfices and we are OK.
a2kylm: He said, in the name of Jesus Christ or the Lord Jesus Christ or the Lord Jesus who we all know IS GOD ALMIGHTY
Our inconsistency is laughable.
a2kylm: It's not Bishop Johnson that was inconsistent, not with the scriptures. It's any who who baptizes any differently that Bishop Johnson who's inconsistent with the scripture. So it's not Bishop Johnson that's laughable.
Now with that, God bless the "Bishop" SC Johnson
a2kylm: No doubt, he has laid up for him a crown of glory because he continued TO THE END.
martha
01-27-2009, 11:49 PM
aaahh the truth in PART..... you wont be saved through works but you will receive rewards by works
Re: Bishop SC Johnson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior
We can't be saved through works. The fact that we introduced so many to Christ doesn't merit us the kingdom either. Our life and nothing more is what says if we will go back with Jesus when he comes.
aaahh the truth in PART..... you wont be saved through works but you will receive rewards by works
A2KYLM: Same old, same old. Folks scared of the water, calling it "works", sad
martha
01-28-2009, 12:06 AM
I have heard his messages as well. I am not very impressed with him, either. I will say that he does have the one way one God message right, but there are a lot of errors in his teachings. As far as debates are concerned, I think he won because he had the biggest mouth and declared himself the winner. I can't say that it was properly and fairly set up with a panel of judges and on neutral turf as they should have been. Johnson was nortorious for insulting people and saying negative things to them in debates. I don't know how that constitutes as a winner. In other words, I don't think the debates were set up in a fashion that they should have been to be fair.
a2kylm: How do you "set up" a debate using the bible. It's not like you're debating the einstein's theory of relativity where the mathematicl master minds can prove one mathematically right or wrong. It's a debate of spiritual things. Both men had their bibles. And if you think Bishop Johnson would have allowed a panel of judges, WHO THEMSELVES NEEDED SOMEONE TO TEACH THEM, to declare who was the winner, you didn't know Bishop Johnson. And what is "turf" in a biblical debate. Either you're right or you're wrong whatever "turf" you're on. Moral support does not give SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE. God Almighty gives spiritual knowledge. Yes, Bishop Johnson DESPISED FALSE PROPHETS because they lead the people astray. But it was for the benefit of the people and their eternal salvation, that he WHIPPED those other ministers WITH THE WORD.
martha
01-28-2009, 12:09 AM
Note that Bishop Johnson's fundamental teachings were that of his spiritual father Bishop Robert Clarence Lawson (1883- 1961). Bishop Lawson, then Elder Lawson resigned from the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW). Lawson differed with PAW over "divorce and remarriage" and "women preachers." Lawson also taught the sisters are to cover their heads when in prayers, therefore his women were noted has to wearing hats to church and adorning themselves in modest apparel. The current leader of Lawson's denomination is Bishop William Lee Bonner.
Bishop Johnson claimed no spiritual father. That's why you found him going out on his own and founding his own church.
martha
01-28-2009, 12:10 AM
After Mr. Rudd (the Campbellite) had given his articulate speech for 30 minutes the Bishop's first words were "Mr. Rudd don't know NOTHING!!!!!!!"
It was rich.
Yep, that was Bishop Johnson, and he meant every word of it.
martha
01-28-2009, 12:14 AM
This poor illiterate black preacher left South Carolina and built the LARGEST church auditorium in Philadelphia. Pa. they had 4500 ADULT members on roll. He built and bought churches in over 70 cities in the USA. He had the largest Apostolic radio network in it's day he was on an hour 7 nights a week. He baptized thousands in Jesus Name. Filled the Gator Bowl in a crusade in Jacksonville, Fla. Debated the Campbellites until he ran them for the hills. Offered $500,000 every broadcast for someone to prove him wrong. He preached vis shortwave around the world weekly.Did I agree with everything he said? No. Was he a man of God? Sure was. Most will never do in an entire life of what he did in one day. Have his followers overstepped? Yes they have.
Bishop Johnson preached the new birth, one God, holiness message and built a MEGA(probably Pentecost's first) in doing so.
a2kylm: I don't think Bishop Johnson was illiterate. Anyone as full of the wisdom of God as he was could hardly be called illiterate.
martha
01-28-2009, 12:24 AM
Brother Strange, how could Johnson who had so much truth be filled with so much error. His one God doctrine is certainly on the money, but he was in error about so many other things. i.e. No son of God in heaven, marriage, apostolic standard of dress and many other issues. Please answer that question.
Personally, I feel like his hard heart didn't allow him to love all mankind. He was only conditioned to love those who were like him. That is problematic, because you can't get into heaven not loving your fellow man.
Bishop Johnson was an apostle, believe it or not, like it or not. Can you find any SIN in anything he preached, or do you just find rebellion of the flesh? Be honest! Is it SIN AND ERROR OR IS IT THE PEOPLES' REBELLION OF THE FLESH? It's like the Hebews in the wilderness when God spoke and they appealed to Moses: "Tell Him don't tell us any more because we can't bear it! (paraphrased) LOL< LOL< LOL
martha
01-28-2009, 12:27 AM
Just can't stand it... is this the 8th now?
Brother Strange,
This is what I am learning around here...
Trinitarians are saved.
People that baptize in the titles are saved.
People who don't receive the Holy Ghost, yea, who don't even believe you can receive the Holy Ghost, they're all saved.
Pretty much everybody is saved except an Apostolic preacher who preaches any standard not specifically spelled out in the New Testament in a minimum of two or three places.
So, sad as it seems, in the great judgment bar of AFF, Jerry Falwell is walking on golden streets, while S.C. Johnson is in hell.
Go figure
I still like it!
a2kylm: TURN THAT AROUND AND YOU'LL HAVE IT RIGHT.
warrior
01-28-2009, 09:22 AM
Hi Martha,
Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.
Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.
Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!
What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?
I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.
warrior
01-28-2009, 11:28 AM
Martha,
What about those who never hear Bishop Johnson? Will they still be saved if they aren't listening to HIM?
What about the people who were here during the period he called gross darkness? If the Bible apostles were dead and he hadn't arrived on the scene yet, did they not have the opportunity to receive salvation?
Hi Martha,
Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.
Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.
Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!
What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?
I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.
Bishop Johnson was human.
I would not argue about whether he was an apostle or not but whether he was or not does not mean that he was 100 percent accurate in everything that he preached or taught. We all know in part and prophesy in part. We see through a glass (Bible) dimly. Some day we'll be raptured and reach perfection. Until then there will be disagreements among us on just about any doctrine or teaching or interpretation.
warrior
01-28-2009, 12:10 PM
Bishop Johnson was human.
I would not argue about whether he was an apostle or not but whether he was or not does not mean that he was 100 percent accurate in everything that he preached or taught. We all know in part and prophesy in part. We see through a glass (Bible) dimly. Some day we'll be raptured and reach perfection. Until then there will be disagreements among us on just about any doctrine or teaching or interpretation.
Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.
TRFrance
01-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.
It's a shame that these people don't have enough discernment enough to know that there is no scripture to support the idea that Johnson was the "last apostle"... nor his "no Son of God in heaven" teaching... nor the "we dont need a pastor -- we'll just listen to tapes" practice. If these people would compare all things by scripture they'd see how they're greatly in error on these things.
At the end of the day, our primary loyalty has to be to the Word of God, not to any man, no matter how good a preacher he supposedly is.
warrior
01-28-2009, 12:31 PM
He also taught that the world was in gross darkness before he came and revealed the truth. Now, his followers are telling others that and trying to make people follow them. That is an error. There are many who have come to a point of idolotry because of these teachings.
I think this is bigger than saying this man made an error so let's over look him. People are still waiting on him to be resurrected from the dead because they believe in him and him only. This is about the sould rather than a person making a mistake. Bishop Johnson made himself clear that NO ONE else had truth except him. That is why this discussion is even taking place right now.
warrior
01-28-2009, 12:33 PM
It's a shame that these people don't have enough discernment enough to know that there is no scripture to support the idea that Johnson was the "last apostle"... nor his "no Son of God in heaven" teaching... nor the "we dont need a pastor -- we'll just listen to tapes" practice. If these people would compare all things by scripture they'd see how they're greatly in error on these things.
At the end of the day, our primary loyalty has to be to the Word of God, not to any man, no matter how good a preacher he supposedly is.
Many of them choose to listen to the tapes before ever referring to the Bible. If the Bible reference was ever made they would know they were out of order.
TRFrance
01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
He also taught that the world was in gross darkness before he came and revealed the truth. Now, his followers are telling others that and trying to make people follow them. That is an error. There are many who have come to a point of idolotry because of these teachings.
I think this is bigger than saying this man made an error so let's over look him. People are still waiting on him to be resurrected from the dead because they believe in him and him only. This is about the sould rather than a person making a mistake. Bishop Johnson made himself clear that NO ONE else had truth except him. That is why this discussion is even taking place right now.
Sorry, I don't throw the "c" word around a lot , but to me, this kind of stuff is borderline cultic.
What about Holy Ghost filled, One God, Jesus name baptized folks in countries all over the world who never heard of SC Johnson?
Are they not saved? Do they not have revealed truth from God also?
warrior
01-28-2009, 12:42 PM
TRFrance, those are the questions I can never get a straight answer to. Bishop Johnson and his congregants have a monopoly on truth and according to them, if you want it it has to come from him.
Sorry, I don't throw the "c" word around a lot , but to me, this kind of stuff is borderline cultic.
...
Yes, very much so.
Among Oneness Pentecostals there are several groups and individual congregations that are just plain cults --no other way to describe it-- and that is within the UPC and other organizations too.
warrior
01-28-2009, 12:55 PM
I will say that I don't believe that Bishop Johnson's intentions started out this way. He was so sure that Jesus would return in his lifetime. It didn't work out that way.
What did Bishop Johnson teach on hair length and head coverings?
Is he considered infallible on that among Oneness Pentecostals?
warrior
01-28-2009, 01:02 PM
No one is challenging Johnson's integrity. We have to look at the teachings not him as an individual. I am in support of taking a closer look at the teachings because then you can explain to others why what was being taught is not correct.
I think more than anything, people's pride become hurt because they are so sure that they are in the right thing. That is what we all want to believe.
warrior
01-28-2009, 01:05 PM
What did Bishop Johnson teach on hair length and head coverings?
Is he considered infallible on that among Oneness Pentecostals?
There are some things in his dress code that I believe aren't mentioned in the scripture and there things are debateable even today. But things like gross darkness, and him being the ONLY one that is right is complete and utter error.
Now I'm really confused.
As a good Oneness Pentecostal person, whom should I accept as the "last" apostle of this church age?
Bishop S.C. Johnson?
or
Bill Branham?
Are there any books or position papers out of St. Louis that can help me with that? Have any of the UPC officials addressed this issue? Does UGST have anything published on this?
warrior
01-28-2009, 01:37 PM
What did I say that confused you, Brother Sam?
We are still debating hair and head coverings even on this forum. However, Bishop Johnson taught things like a woman must have her head covered at all times, no chemicals in the hair, cotton stockings, can't wear certain colors, a particular skirt lenght.
Sam, these are things you know about already. You are very familiar with Bishop Johnson's teachings.
warrior
01-28-2009, 01:40 PM
I am not very familiar William Branam but I know his teachings were extreme as well.
warrior
01-28-2009, 01:42 PM
You should except neither because the scripture says nothing of the sort. What you should do is pray that God would appoint a pastor for you. Worrying about someone being an apostle is not your job.
What did I say that confused you, Brother Sam?
We are still debating hair and head coverings even on this forum. However, Bishop Johnson taught things like a woman must have her head covered at all times, no chemicals in the hair, cotton stockings, can't wear certain colors, a particular skirt lenght.
Sam, these are things you know about already. You are very familiar with Bishop Johnson's teachings.
I was just kidding.
I knew he taught head covering and long dresses, also cotton hose.
But, I don't remember hearing or reading anything he had to say about hair length on women. Ordinarily among African Americans hair length on women is not an issue nor is facial hair on men.
In PAW and PCAF churches around here African American women wear their hair short. In UPC and ALJC white women wear their hair short enough to manage but long enough to look "Pentecostal." From what I understand, the UPC does not enforce the "hair" issue outside the United States.
warrior
01-28-2009, 02:05 PM
It would probably be difficult to enforce those things.
warrior
01-30-2009, 06:57 AM
Martha, you had such a strong defense of Bishop Johnson. I am still waiting on your answers to the questions I asked a few post above.
TRFrance
01-30-2009, 07:08 AM
How can people expect to receive a fresh word from the Lord for today... when they've commited themselves to just listening to 40 year old tapes?
Just goes to show you that someone can have the Holy Ghost and still be far from what God's will is. Obviously, man-made traditions can be a strong & difficult thing for folks to overcome, even Holy Ghost filled folks.
warrior
01-30-2009, 08:25 AM
TRFrance, in order for there to be deliverance a person would have to recognize that what they are doing isn't correct. They have convinced themselves that there is no one else who can ever preach the truth except for Bishop Johnson, therefore they only listen to him even if he hasn't spoken a word in over 40 years.
There are several issues with them only listening to tapes. They don't have a leader, or visionary. Who decides what tape is appropriate for the moment? Who is anoiting and praying for the sick? Who is baptizing and ordaining more elders? Too many reasons for any person to feel that this is okay.
TRFrance
01-30-2009, 08:47 AM
TRFrance, in order for there to be deliverance a person would have to recognize that what they are doing isn't correct. They have convinced themselves that there is no one else who can ever preach the truth except for Bishop Johnson, therefore they only listen to him even if he hasn't spoken a word in over 40 years.
There are several issues with them only listening to tapes. They don't have a leader, or visionary. Who decides what tape is appropriate for the moment? Who is anoiting and praying for the sick? Who is baptizing and ordaining more elders? Too many reasons for any person to feel that this is okay.
So true, and so sad.
Just goes to show you that just because a place calls themselves "Apostolic" doesnt mean they've got it together.
We've got to be really discerning nowadays, and compare everything against scripture. Sad to say, there are some "Apostolic" churches I wouldnt even send my dog to.
warrior
01-30-2009, 09:03 AM
The ugly part of about this is that Bishop Johnson created some of the craze that we see today. He would say things like, he was the only one right, listen to his tapes until Jesus comes and there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and himself. He brought the light in the evening time. It seems that there was a level of self deception. You know, pride can be a great hinder to our ministry and the salvation of others. A person can start off humble and get a puffed up spirit as the ministry grows and succeds. God will never allow a man to be bigger than He is. Had Johnson lived, I don't think there would have been any room for Jesus any longer. People are still waiting on his resurrection as if he was Jesus.
Bishop Johnson is given credit for working miracles. We know he was only the vessel being used. No credit is given to Jesus.
martha
02-10-2009, 01:07 PM
Hi Martha,
Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.
Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.
Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!
What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?
I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.
Martha: The dress code came from 1st Timothy 2:9-13. That scripture was used as a model. The actual code was adopted by the women in leadership of the women in the church and agreed upon by Bishop Johnson. But it was Sister Green, supervisor of the women who created the specific dress code. Bishop Johnson had his own idea of how a woman professing holiness was supposed to dress and Sister Green's model was okay with him. If Sister Green had presented a less severe code, he might have okayed that too but once it was established, "all walked by the same rule." I really don't believe that Bishop Johnson believed that a modest dress of any modest length and nylon hose would send anyone to hell. He just frowned on it because it was against the established dress code and therefore was disobedience to the code.
No son of God in heaven now is scriptural, of course. Bishop Johnson NEVER preached ANYTHING that was not scriptural. If you ever heard him preach it you would have understood. Jesus Christ is God Almighty. He is Father in creation when He created all things. He was the Son of God in redemption and now Holy Ghost in the Church. Let me see if I can copy the web site that has this particular sermon preached by Bishop Johnson onto this page and you can listen to it for yourself.
The True Word, Apostolic Ministries of America, Inc.
A. All Bishop S.C. Johnson Audio Tapes will continue to be available from ... Bishop S.C. Johnson's Headquarters of his Apostolic Churches (The Church of ...
Go to the True Word Apostolic Ministries of America, Inc. web page and at the bottom of the page are some of Bishop Johnson's sermons. You will find part I and part II of No Son of God in Heaven Now listed. You can't play all of them because the site won't let you but these two can be played.
marthaolivia
02-10-2009, 02:36 PM
I saw the name 'Martha' and was perplexed for a moment. I knew I didn't defend S.C. Johnson and wondered why my name was there.:nah
I do remember hearing him on the radio when I was a child. I also remember he taught that women were to wear cotton stockings. Funny, as much as he preached Oneness, that is what I remember.
martha
02-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Hi Martha,
Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.
Martha: Try the Web Site I gave you for the actual sermon by Bishop Johnson. Let me know after you listen to the tape if you disagree with Bishop Johnson.
Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.
Martha: Again, I don't recall him saying that, but I'll take your word for it because it's true but I don't know what scripture he might have quoted You do know what an Apostle is? One who does not get his doctrine from the seminary of his choice or is taught be the elders but gets it directly from God. There are many ministers, Apostolic and other, who call themselves Apostles who have LEARNED FROM BISHOP JOHNSON, not by revelation from God. That's not how you define Apostle. Now if you can find ONE MINISTER who is not affiliated with Bishop Johnson's Ministry whether or not he calls himself an Apostle, who preaches EVERYTHING that Bishop Johnson preached, PLEASE LET ME KNOW BECAUSE "I KNOW NOT ANY". In all the years he's been dead, since 1961, I KNOW NOT ANY. That's why Bishop Johnson called his ministry THE WHOLE TRUTH. And there are those who have come out of his church after his death who are peaching but have adulterated the gospel that he preached.
Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years.
Martha: We're reading the words of men who have been dead over 2000 years, and we don't understand them. And who can declare them to us? Bishop Johnson is THE ONLY MAN I KNOW WHO COULD. God's word prevailed in the first century church after pentecost. It was lost from the earth until Bishop Johnson came to declare it. Now that Bishop Johnson is gone, the "whole truth" of the word is indeed sparce in the earth with only his echoes in fading tapes, a few radio stations, a few churches scattered sparsely across the country, and in the hearts and minds of people who have been taught by him and passed it on to their children (For the promise is unto you and to your children . . . . .) Simeon Peter said in the bible said: "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou has the words of eternal life." My questions is WHO HAS THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE TO DECLARE TO US THE WHOLE TRUTH OF GOD, NOTHING LACKING?
There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson.
Martha: It makes no difference what the people say. What do the scriptures say?
So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this.
Martha: Is there a scripture that condemns it, especially when you can't find the "Whole Truth" ANYWHERE ELSE. And there are a few churches scattered across the country, but very few where members go when they can for fellowship and worship.
Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong
Martha: I really don't remember him saying that but if he did, God gave that old man the wisdom of God. It's always a good thing to listen to the wisdom of God. I KNOW NO ALTERNATIVE. Consider what happened to THE CHURCH after the death of all the apostles. It went into Apostasy and all those people attending those churches went with it. This is the darkness that covered the earth and gross darkness the people.
What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?
Martha: It sounds like you already know a lot about Bishop Johnson's teaching. Were you ever a member of his church? Zechariah 14:7 is one of the scriptures Bishop Johnson referred to. One of his theme songs was "Water Way-Light in the Eveningtime" The other scripture is Isaiah 60:2-3 "For behold the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people but the Lord shall arise upon thee and his gory shall be seen upon thee and the Gentiles shall come to thy light and kings to the brightness of thy rising."
I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.
Martha: If you can find ONE THING he said in his doctrine that is not scriptural, you'll have done more than anyone else was ever able to do when he was alive. I have explained the dress code of the church when he was living. No, the scripture does not lay out long dresses, cotton stockings, etc, but the code was established after 1st Timothy 2:9-10/ That, he allowed the Sister Mary Green who was supervisor of the women to formulate. He did not mandate it as such; however, like I said before, he would not allow members to dress in pants, shorts, mini skirts, etc. Had he himself chosen the dress code, I don't know what he would have chosen but it couldn't have been any more severe that what Sis. Mary Green chose. But Bishop Johnson was a man of God. He condemned women's dress that did not portray modesty and godliness. And He was the Bishop and had the authority, just the same as Apostle Paul or Apostle Peter had the authority to oversee the dress code of the congretants, even though he did not lay it out himself. The dress code was severe by today's standards but Sis. Green chose it and he let it stand. Head covering was also mandated according to 1st Cor. 11. While this may sound harsh and "unscriptural" to many, where is the scripture that condemns it? But by not being in obedience to the authorities over you, you would be found disobedient and all disobedience is sin.
martha
02-10-2009, 03:15 PM
No one is challenging Johnson's integrity. We have to look at the teachings not him as an individual. I am in support of taking a closer look at the teachings because then you can explain to others why what was being taught is not correct.
I think more than anything, people's pride become hurt because they are so sure that they are in the right thing. That is what we all want to believe.
Martha: Tell me, if you please, what is the beliefs in your church? So I can evaluate your belief (smile).
martha
02-10-2009, 04:56 PM
Martha,
What about those who never hear Bishop Johnson? Will they still be saved if they aren't listening to HIM?
What about the people who were here during the period he called gross darkness? If the Bible apostles were dead and he hadn't arrived on the scene yet, did they not have the opportunity to receive salvation?
According to Bishop Johnson, Those who lived during the period of darkness and never heard the word and have lived to the best of their ability, according to the knowledge they had of God will be saved in the second resurrection and those who have not lived the best they could according to the knowledge they had of God, will be lost.
Jermyn Davidson
02-10-2009, 05:17 PM
How can one really believe that there is no Son of God in Heaven right now?
Or maybe I'm just confused on the Biblical Oneness message.
Is Jesus making intercession for us?
I believe there is One God and Jesus Christ is His Name, not because I understand every nuance and mystery, but because the Bible says so.
martha
02-10-2009, 07:40 PM
Bishop Johnson was human.
I would not argue about whether he was an apostle or not but whether he was or not does not mean that he was 100 percent accurate in everything that he preached or taught. We all know in part and prophesy in part. We see through a glass (Bible) dimly. Some day we'll be raptured and reach perfection. Until then there will be disagreements among us on just about any doctrine or teaching or interpretation.
Martha: Yes Sam, he was human. But can you find any doctrinal flaws in his preaching that can be substantiated by the scripture? That's the test of his legitimacy, not the fact that he was a mortal man. Bishop Johnson came with a gospel that was foreign to the religious world of his day. He came with the Apostolic doctrine which condemned many things that had heretofore been accepted in the churches and the doctrine of every church that I know of. It seems you know a lot about him independent of anything I might have to say.
martha
02-10-2009, 07:51 PM
Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.
Martha: Excuse me. We are literate, intelligent people, some of us professionals who read the bible, news papers, hold jobs, have families, watch the news like anybody else. We are not closed inside a chamber never knowing the outside world. I have heard what the rest of the religious world has to offer and I have not found that it is in accordance with what the scripture says. Either a church preaches/teaches what's written or it doesn't.
Was Bishop Johnson the last apostle? I have asked you if YOU KNOW ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD who's preaching what Bishop Johnson preached. If you know someone, let us all know who they are and where they are. If you don't, No, there has not been another apostle since Bishop Johnson died. If you believe that your church is right and Bishop Johnson is wrong, where is your proof of that based on the scriptures? I hear you challenging his doctrine and claims but I don't hear you substantiating it.
... I really don't believe that Bishop Johnson believed that a modest dress of any modest length and nylon hose would send anyone to hell. He just frowned on it because it was against the established dress code and therefore was disobedience to the code.
...
.
I used to listen to Bishop Johnson on the radio but only listened a few times to Bishop Shelton.
Unless I'm mistaken, I remember hearing Bishop Johnson tell about passing the scene of an automobile accident with police around it. He said that a woman had died in the accident and her legs were sticking out of the car. He then went on to say that the woman had gone to Hell. He then continued, "How do I know she went to Hell? Because she had on nylons."
Now there's no way I can tell you the date of that message but it was some time before September 1956.
I have a question about Bishop Johnson's teaching on water baptism.
Did Bishop Johnson say that all three words "Lord Jesus Christ" must be said or the baptism was not valid? Did he teach that if a person was baptized using the words "in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus Christ" the person would have to be rebaptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" to be saved?
martha
02-11-2009, 01:07 PM
How can one really believe that there is no Son of God in Heaven right now?
Or maybe I'm just confused on the Biblical Oneness message.
Is Jesus making intercession for us?
I believe there is One God and Jesus Christ is His Name, not because I understand every nuance and mystery, but because the Bible says so.
Martha: IF ANYONE REALLY WANTS TO KNOW WHAT BISHOP JOHNSON SAID ABOUT THERE BEING NO SON OF GOD IN HEAVEN NOW GO TO YOUR COMPUTER AND TYPE IN "BISHOP S. C. JOHNSON" A site will come up called "TRUE WORD APOSTOLIC MINISTRIES OF AMERICAN, INC. THERE WILL BE MORE THAN ONE SITE WITH THIS LABEL. GO TO THE ONE LABELED "IN MEMORY OF BISHOP S. C. JOHNSON" SCROLL DOWN TO THE TAPED AUDIO SERMONS OF BISHOP JOHNSON AND THERE YOU WILL FIND PART ONE AND PART TWO OF "NO SON OF GOD IN HEAVEN NOW" AMONG OTHERS. BISHOP JOHNSON IS THE MAN WHO TAUGHT THE WORLD THAT THERE IS NO TRINITY AND THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD ALMIGHTY. IT WAS THERE ALL THE TIME, WRITTEN SINCE THE DAYS OF THE APOSTLES, BUT NO ONE SAW IT. Many received that teaching, AND CLOAKED IT AS THEIR OWN REVELATION WHILE STILL DISCREDITING BISHOP JOHNSON; A SORT OF BITING THE HAND THAT FED YOU BUT EATING UP THE FOOD YOU RECEIVED. Listen and evaluate for yourself. Of course you know that these audio tapes are over 40 years old. The quality of part I is good and clear. The quality of part II is not good. I INVITE ALL TO GO TO THAT SITE AND LISTEN TO THAT AUDIO TAPE FROM THE MOUTH OF BISHOP S. C. JOHNSON AND THEN COME BACK WITH YOUR ANALYSIS, CRITICISMS, AND DISAGREEMENTS. The huge disadvantage now is that Bishop Johnson is dead and unable to defend himself against naysayers who demonize his gospel and him. PLEASE, DO LISTEN TO THIS AUDIO FOR YOUR OWN SAKE AND FOR THE SAKE OF THE TRUTH THAT WAS PREACHED BY BISHOP S. C. JOHNSON, UNLESS YOU'RE AFRAID.
I am not endorsing the site on which these audio tapes are posted because I know nothing about Bishop Walker whose church sponsors this site. But THE TAPES BY BISHOP JOHNSON ARE ALLLL GOOD. And Bishop Walker KNOWS THEY'RE ALL GOOD. That's why he posts them on his web site. THE NAME OF BISHOP JOHNSON STILL DRAWS A CROWD. I WONDER WHY?
the good bishop is dead. everyone just step away from the tapes and find you a good live One God Apostolic Jesus name Preacher!
oh and the answer to that question "the name of Bhsip Johnson still draws a crowd. I wonder why?" may have an answer you dont like.
it might be the same reason the name of William Branham still draws a crowd. I wouldnt want that association....
martha
02-11-2009, 06:43 PM
Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.
Martha: Lies? Name ONE LIE that I have spread that can be traced to anything Bishop Johnson preached. If you can't do that then you shouldn't be saying that.
If you get that Bishop Johnson was subject to error, NAME THE ERROR YOU'RE SPEAKING OF THAT YOU GOT AND SUPPORT IT WITH SCRIPTURE.
As for the people sitting at home, we are not ignorant people as your post would suggest. Many of us, including myself, are educated, professional people who are quite capable of reading the scriptures for ourselves and finding the flaws in other church doctrines that cannot be supported by scripture.
martha
02-11-2009, 06:50 PM
How can people expect to receive a fresh word from the Lord for today... when they've commited themselves to just listening to 40 year old tapes?
Just goes to show you that someone can have the Holy Ghost and still be far from what God's will is. Obviously, man-made traditions can be a strong & difficult thing for folks to overcome, even Holy Ghost filled folks.
Martha: TRF, what profit would it be for me to go and listen to a minister who does not know the gospel? What have I accomplished to go sit under a minister who is preaching error to me just so I can look at an animated body preach lies to me. Don't you know that I would rather listen to Bishop Johnson's tapes that preach truth that leads to eternal life than listen to any preacher, in the flesh, preaching error to eternal damnation. I don't know of ANY MINISTER TODAY, ANYWHERE that's preaching truth. In order to know this, one MUST FIRST KNOW THE TRUTH AND SO MANY TODAY JUST DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH AND APPARENTLY THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY.
martha
02-11-2009, 07:15 PM
[QUOTE=warrior;694556]TRFrance, in order for there to be deliverance a person would have to recognize that what they are doing isn't correct. They have convinced themselves that there is no one else who can ever preach the truth except for Bishop Johnson, therefore they only listen to him even if he hasn't spoken a word in over 40 years.
There are several issues with them only listening to tapes. They don't have a leader, or visionary. Who decides what tape is appropriate for the moment? Who is anoiting and praying for the sick? Who is baptizing and ordaining more elders? Too many reasons for any person to feel that this is okay.[/QUOTE
Martha: Bishop Johnson has been dead for 48 years. My husband was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ three years ago. Have you forgotten about God and that He is able to oversee His own or do you trust so much in flesh and blood that God takes a back seat? We used to sing an old song called "God's Got a Way To Bring His People Out". My husband is an example of that. God's word is unchanging. It will be the same a thousand years from now, should the Lord tarry. If you've got a preacher giving you a different spin on it from time to time, he's lying to you. If you go to church to be entertained by the skill of the speaker rather than the truth of what's spoken, you've accomplished nothing. If you can put your mind to it you would see that it is THE WORD that leads. It should always be THE WORD that leads, not the man and the vision is The New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven and the vision of Jesus Christ coming in the clouds. What other vision matters? You words sound so very hollow when placed alongside the wisdom of God.
martha
02-11-2009, 07:50 PM
He also taught that the world was in gross darkness before he came and revealed the truth. Now, his followers are telling others that and trying to make people follow them. That is an error. There are many who have come to a point of idolotry because of these teachings.
I think this is bigger than saying this man made an error so let's over look him. People are still waiting on him to be resurrected from the dead because they believe in him and him only. This is about the sould rather than a person making a mistake. Bishop Johnson made himself clear that NO ONE else had truth except him. That is why this discussion is even taking place right now.
Martha: YOU HAVE TOTALLY LOST YOUR MIND! THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO ONE WHO BELIEVES BISHOP JOHNSON IS GOING TO BE RESURRECTED, NOT BEFORE THE FIRST RESURRECTION. We believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. We believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. Bishop Johnson was just his servant. I hear a personal tone in your posts as if you personally knew Bishop Johnson, might have once been a member of his church, or personally knew someone in his church. Which is it? I tell no one to FOLLOW ME because THEY CAN'T. No one was preaching the truth before Bishop Johnson came and no one has preached it since he died. Take that for what you will but as for myself, I'm scripturally astute enough to make my own evaluation based on what I've seen and heard in the religious world today. Oh, yes, I've heard a lot outside of Bishop Johnson's teachings but it didn't take long before I saw and heard the lies in their teaching. And they're always the same lies: 1. Just accept Jesus where you are. 2. I believe if you prayed that prayer you've been saved? 3. It's perfectly acceptble and alright with God if you marry while you have a living husband or wife. 4. It's alright to live with that man/woman, just as long as you "plan on" marrying later. 5. Water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is how you should be baptized. 6. All you need is the baptism of the Holy Ghost. 7. You don't have to be baptized in water AT ALL. 8. You don't have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Ghost. 9. You don't have to be filled with the Holy Ghost. 10. You're saved the minute you "accept Christ into your heart". 11. The gospel at pentecost was FOR THE JEWS ONLY. 12. The Gentiles only have to follow the teaching of Apostle Paul after Acts 28:28, because he was apostle to the Gentiles;the rest was for the Jews. 13. The latest epistles written by Apostle take precedence over the earleir ones. 14. The dispensation of grace began with Eph. 15. 16. The New Testament church started after Acts 28:28. 17. The Acts of the Apostles before Acts 28:28 do not apply to Gentiles. 18. Water baptism is a "work" of the law. 19. It's okay for women to preach, be bishops, ministers and deacons. 20. Women can dress any way they want, without any restrictions and still be considered dressed as becomes godliness. 21. I'm sure there's more but these are the ones that come to mind. I know better than any of this apostasy because I've been taught what the bible says about it and I can read the bible for myself and see what the bible says about it. Where do you fall in this list?
I'm with Bishop Johnson: No one had the truth but him.
martha
02-11-2009, 08:02 PM
I will say that I don't believe that Bishop Johnson's intentions started out this way. He was so sure that Jesus would return in his lifetime. It didn't work out that way.
Wasn't that what the apostles thought on the day of pentecost?
martha
02-11-2009, 08:08 PM
many of them choose to listen to the tapes before ever referring to the bible. If the bible reference was ever made they would know they were out of order.
where are you getting this stuff! It isn't true, not at all.
martha
02-11-2009, 08:18 PM
the good bishop is dead. Everyone just step away from the tapes and find you a good live one god apostolic jesus name preacher!
Oh and the answer to that question "the name of bhsip johnson still draws a crowd. I wonder why?" may have an answer you dont like.
It might be the same reason the name of william branham still draws a crowd. I wouldnt want that association....
you're spiritually stupid.
martha
02-17-2009, 09:05 PM
I used to listen to Bishop Johnson on the radio but only listened a few times to Bishop Shelton.
Unless I'm mistaken, I remember hearing Bishop Johnson tell about passing the scene of an automobile accident with police around it. He said that a woman had died in the accident and her legs were sticking out of the car. He then went on to say that the woman had gone to Hell. He then continued, "How do I know she went to Hell? Because she had on nylons."
Now there's no way I can tell you the date of that message but it was some time before September 1956.
What I have personal knowledge that Bishop Johnson said regarding womens' stockings, in my life time, was that not wearing cotton stockings would NOT SEND YOU TO HELL so I have to wonder if you might have misunderstood what he said.
martha
02-17-2009, 09:09 PM
How can one really believe that there is no Son of God in Heaven right now?
Or maybe I'm just confused on the Biblical Oneness message.
Is Jesus making intercession for us?
I believe there is One God and Jesus Christ is His Name, not because I understand every nuance and mystery, but because the Bible says so.
Who died a natural death on the cross? What has to happen to a natural body before it can become a spiritual body according to Apostle Paul? Was the natural son's body glorified? Was the glorified Son of God made both Lord and Christ? Who ascended into heaven on the mount of Olives?
TRFrance
02-18-2009, 08:07 AM
Martha: TRF, what profit would it be for me to go and listen to a minister who does not know the gospel? What have I accomplished to go sit under a minister who is preaching error to me just so I can look at an animated body preach lies to me. Don't you know that I would rather listen to Bishop Johnson's tapes that preach truth that leads to eternal life than listen to any preacher, in the flesh, preaching error to eternal damnation. I don't know of ANY MINISTER TODAY, ANYWHERE that's preaching truth. In order to know this, one MUST FIRST KNOW THE TRUTH AND SO MANY TODAY JUST DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH AND APPARENTLY THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY.
Martha, I will say this politely, but directly. You are sadly misled, my sister.
For you to assume that no minister knows the Gospel today outside of SC Johnson is shortsighted, to put it politely.
The Body of Christ, God's church, is bigger than any one man.
There are millions of saints in countries all over the world who have never even heard of Bishop SC Johnson. What do you say about them? These people dont listen to tapes. They have pastors who watch over the flock, provide guidance and instruction, and seek a word from God which they preach each Sunday to their churches. People are being filled with the Holy Ghost, baptized in Jesus name, spiritual gifts are in operation, revival is taking place, and God is moving among them in a great way. It is ridiculous that you people have elevated this man to this level, as if God is now limited. God is not limited at all, my sister. For your own sake, open your eyes and see what God is doing. It's a great big world out there, and God is moving mightily all over the planet, outside of this little "box" (SC Johnson and his teachings) that you folks have created.
Martha: Bishop Johnson has been dead for 48 years. My husband was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ three years ago. Have you forgotten about God and that He is able to oversee His own or do you trust so much in flesh and blood that God takes a back seat?
Trusting in flesh and blood to oversee the chrurch?
Really? You mean like the apostles, prophets, pastors, etc that the Bible says is part of God's pattern of leadership over his church?? Arent they flesh-and-blood leaders of the spiritual body of Christ?
Do you not know that in the original Greek, the word "bishop" that Paul uses in the NT literally means "overseer" ? Yes, God is the Great Overseer... but He also has placed human overseers over his flock. That is biblical. What you are talking about is not biblical.
We used to sing an old song called "God's Got a Way To Bring His People Out". My husband is an example of that. God's word is unchanging. It will be the same a thousand years from now, should the Lord tarry. If you've got a preacher giving you a different spin on it from time to time, he's lying to you. If you go to church to be entertained by the skill of the speaker rather than the truth of what's spoken, you've accomplished nothing. If you can put your mind to it you would see that it is THE WORD that leads. It should always be THE WORD that leads, not the man and the vision is The New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven and the vision of Jesus Christ coming in the clouds. What other vision matters? You words sound so very hollow when placed alongside the wisdom of God.
Please. Dont talk to me about hollow.
So lets take your words... and place them alongside the Word of God, ok?
Do you folks even pay attention to Ephesians 4:11-16?
You seem to have forgotten about the 5-fold ministry of the word of God... apostles (plural, not just Johnson), prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. That is God'd biblical pattern for the Body of Christ. You people are not in line with God's biblical pattern because you not allowing the five-fold ministry to operate among you according to the word of God. Go see what your own bible says about that, and compare it to what you people are doing.
If you take the time to really see what the scripture says on this, you will see... The five fold ministry is to operate in the body of Christ until Jesus's coming ... it didnt stop at the coming of SC Johnson. Plain and simple, you people are out of order and need to get back in line with the plan of God as shown in the bible.
-------
No more apostles after Johnson? Where's the scripture for that?
No pastors/overseers today? Where's the scripture for that?
No prophets? Where's the scripture for that?
Find me the scriptures for that, and then we can really talk. But at this point, this stuff you're telling me is not just unbiblical, but anti-biblical.
you're spiritually stupid.
and you rise to a certain level Martha.
warrior
02-18-2009, 08:41 AM
Martha, I have read your responses, and I don't believe that Bishop Johnson was the last apostle. The scripture doesn't make reference to anyone ever being the last apostle.
I don't believe that there was no truth before or after him. Saying that would make God a liar. In otherwords, salvation wasn't available until Bishop Johnson. Now you know that isn't true.
Bishop Johnson did preach that nylons would send you to hell I have a few messages like that. If Bishop Johnson thought the standard that Mary Green made was too strict he had the right to change it as the the pastor. Besides, who gave anyone the right to add to the scriptures. As stated by you, the standards that he set are not in the Bible.
The no son of God theory can easily be challenged with the scriptures. There are several scriptures that say Jesus is sitting on the right side of his father in heaven. With all of the Bible reading you say you do, surely you know about those scriptures. The scriptures say that a woman should cover her head when she is praying and prophesying. It says nothing about walking around with your head covered when you are doing neither. Those are more additions to the scripture.
It is obvious that there are so many breeds of the Johnsonites because there are those who are waiting on his ressurection from the dead.
Anyway, you and your fellow members are so far gone until any other logic wouldn't make a difference to you anyway. In my personal expereinces, I have seen you many people just like you, and it is pretty sad. Bishop Johnson is dead and if God intended for him to still be pastoring people, he would be alive.
There are so many things in scripture that you have neglected simply by being pastored by a tape. You know what those things are and I don't have to tell you. I have mentioned many of them and you didn't respond to them.
Anyway, you are no different than the others that I know. Believe me, you are truly in my prayers that God would give you an understanding. Bishop Johnson's voice will continue to be just an echo because those who truly know what God is requiring of us have a living pastor. The scripture says God will not leave himself without a witness.
By the way, the reason you have not found anyone with truth is because you have convinced yourself that there is no one. Try looking.
warrior
02-18-2009, 09:03 AM
Martha, these scriptures prove that Jesus is on the right side of the father.
Luke 22:69
Mark 14:62
Luke 20:42
Acts 2:33
I Peter 3:22
Hebrews 10:12
Hebrews 1:3
Ephesians 1:20-23
Colossians 3:1
TR France, is correct in that God gave gifts to the church for the perfecting of the saints. You guys are not laying hands on the sick and anointing them with all according to the book of James because you have no elders. Bishop Johnson's elders are mostly if not all dead. You have no vision for the church because you have no visionary. Without the vision the people perish, according to scripture.
If you all truly believed in Bishop Johnson's teaching you would have someone to carry on his work. He wasn't wise enough to make an heir to his work therefore, people are still fighting over his legacy, and you all are sitting at home being pastored by a TAPE who can't say a word except it plays back what has been recorded. If you really cared about Bishop Johnson's work, you would get some elders ordained and erect buildings in every city to carry it on. Instead, you are sitting around talking about no one else has the truth. If Bishop Johnson had the truth, they need to say what he said if it aligns with scripture. It just seems more elite to try to claim a monoply over heaven. I understand..... just remember A TAPE CAN'T DO IT. Bishop Johnson's legacy is on life support and other believers are looking at you all like you are crazy you want people to listen to 40 year old tapes. You have no rhema word from God.
citizen
02-18-2009, 10:53 AM
...I am not endorsing the site on which these audio tapes are posted because I know nothing about Bishop Walker whose church sponsors this site. But THE TAPES BY BISHOP JOHNSON ARE ALLLL GOOD. And Bishop Walker KNOWS THEY'RE ALL GOOD. That's why he posts them on his web site. THE NAME OF BISHOP JOHNSON STILL DRAWS A CROWD. I WONDER WHY?
Did you ever think of contacting this Bishop Walker's church, to see what kind of believers they were - since they seem to have enough love and respect for Bishop Johson's teachings?
Dont you need fellowship?
You also said that there was no one preaching the 'truth' from the time of the bible until Bishop became a preacher. How do you know this?
You said no one was teaching the oness of the Godhead until Bishop Johnson.
I am so sorry to tell you that teaching has been around since the first church.
I can go down a whole line of Christians throughout Christianity that preached that Jesus is God and that there is only one God.
The truth did not jump from John the Apostle until Bishop Johson NOR did it jump from John the Apostle until Azusa Street (alot of people think that).
martha
02-19-2009, 05:28 AM
Martha, I will say this politely, but directly. You are sadly misled, my sister.
Martha: I belive that Jesus Christ is God Almighty; Father in creation, Son in redemption and Holy Ghost in the church. I believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God was crucified my my sins, buried, resurrected and ascended into heaven and is my advocate/Mediator before the Father. I believe in baptism in water, in the name of Jesus Christ according to Acts 2:38 and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, as the Spirit gives utterance. I believe that without being born of water and of the Spirit, no man will enter the Kingdom of God. I believe in the Apostles doctrine as written in the Holy Bible and I believe we must live by it. I don't believe that a man/woman can have other marriage parterners as long as they already have a living husband/wife. I don't believe in women preachers. I believe one must speak in tongues as a sign of being filled with the Holy Ghost. These are my basic beliefs, Where, Sir, am I misled?
For you to assume that no minister knows the Gospel today outside of SC Johnson is shortsighted, to put it politely.
The Body of Christ, God's church, is bigger than any one man.
Martha: IT'S NOT THE MAN; IT'S THE WORD, THE WORD, THE WORD! Get over 'THE MAN'. It's the "WORD" that the man preaches that saves.
There are millions of saints in countries all over the world who have never even heard of Bishop SC Johnson. What do you say about them?
Martha: Does it matter what "I" say about them? What does God say about them? Find the scriptures.
These people dont listen to tapes. They have pastors who watch over the flock, provide guidance and instruction, and seek a word from God which they preach each Sunday to their churches.
Martha: You place far too much emphasis on the fact that "they have pastors". Having pastors means absolutely nothing if those pastors don't know and preach "the truth." Either you believe that God Almighty has His own truth or you believe that each one and every one can modify God's way to their liking, thinking or erroneous understanding and thereby establish their own truth and their own righteousness. You can't cram apostasy down God's throat, no matter how sincere your efforts to do so. There are thousands of "pastors" right here in the good ole USA but I have yet to hear ONE preaching the truth. Either you demand truth or you compromise for error mixed with truth which makes it all error.
Perhaps these people preach "all they know" but "all they know" does not match up with the word of God, so far as I've heard. There may be much that I have not heard but of that I have heard, they do not match up with the word of God. Perhaps you're hearing what I have not heard but if you are, where are you hearing it? The church building is not the body of Christ. The people of God are the body of Christ.
People are being filled with the Holy Ghost, baptized in Jesus name, spiritual gifts are in operation, revival is taking place, and God is moving among them in a great way. It is ridiculous that you people have elevated this man to this level, as if God is now limited.
Martha: Revival into what? Error? I hear nothing but error, everywhere. You talk a good talk but you can't tell me that God is in all the error going on in the churches today.
God is not limited at all, my sister. For your own sake, open your eyes and see what God is doing. It's a great big world out there, and God is moving mightily all over the planet, outside of this little "box" (SC Johnson and his teachings) that you folks have created.
Martha: You can't put God anywhere where the truth of his word is not being preached/heard.
Trusting in flesh and blood to oversee the chrurch?
Really? You mean like the apostles, prophets, pastors, etc that the Bible says is part of God's pattern of leadership over his church?? Arent they flesh-and-blood leaders of the spiritual body of Christ?
Martha: Find one of these people in any church preaching the truth, if you can.
Do you not know that in the original Greek, the word "bishop" that Paul uses in the NT literally means "overseer" ? Yes, God is the Great Overseer... but He also has placed human overseers over his flock. That is biblical. What you are talking about is not biblical.
Martha: They said the same thing about the first Apostles.
Please. Dont talk to me about hollow.
Martha: Anything that's not truth is hollow.
So lets take your words... and place them alongside the Word of God, ok?
Do you folks even pay attention to Ephesians 4:11-16?
You seem to have forgotten about the 5-fold ministry of the word of God... apostles (plural, not just Johnson), prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. That is God'd biblical pattern for the Body of Christ. You people are not in line with God's biblical pattern because you not allowing the five-fold ministry to operate among you according to the word of God. Go see what your own bible says about that, and compare it to what you people are doing.
Martha: Do "you folks" pay attention to scriptural truth? What you're not understanding is that these ministers are not preaching truth today. Do you recall Apostle Paul saying that ravenous wolves would come in after his departure? Do you remember all the warnings in the bible about false teachers? Do you think Jesus and the Apostles said all that for no reason? THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN FALSE TEACHERS.
If you take the time to really see what the scripture says on this, you will see... The five fold ministry is to operate in the body of Christ until Jesus's coming ... it didnt stop at the coming of SC Johnson. Plain and simple, you people are out of order and need to get back in line with the plan of God as shown in the bible.
Martha: The scripture does not say that the five fold ministry would operate in the body of Christ until Jesus' coming. Where's the scripture for that? What happened to the five fold ministry of the first century church after the death of all the apostles? I'll tell you what happened to it, it turned into apostasy with groups interpreting scripture as it suited them the same as they do to this day. The church at pentecost was lost and with it went the true five fold ministry. The first century church that started on the day of pentecost disappeared from the earth. When Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church, he did not mean that this would not happen. It was all part of his plan otherwise it would not have happened. The prophet Isaiah prophesied that this would happen.
Martha: Bishop Johnson was an apostle of God. I have no knowledge of another since his death for those since his death have preached error. And all those, in all the churches, during his lifetime preached error and do to this day.
-------
No more apostles after Johnson? Where's the scripture for that?
No pastors/overseers today? Where's the scripture for that?
No prophets? Where's the scripture for that?
Is your minister an apostle? What apostles do you know since the original twelve plus Paul? What apostles do you know today, give me their doctrine and let's compare that to Bishop Johnson's. Or do you just take their word for it that they're an apostle? Prove all things. What true prophets do you know today? I've heard prophecies from those who call themselves prophets but they're false prophecies, nothing more than modern day sooth sayers. Apostle Paul said if any man thinks he's a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. It follows that if they don't acknowledge that,with the right interpretation of it, they're no prophets. What some people call prophecy is nothing more than common deduction and not prophecy. It's a shame what some people will do in the churches for attention and position. But Apostle Peter said the God's servants and handmaidens would prophesy. Bishop Johnson prophesied that there would not be another apostle after him and he has not been proven wrong after 48 years.
Martha: Do you know what an apostle is? An apostle is one who hears directly from God. He is not taught by man. How many in the five fold ministry today are taught by God and how many go through the seminary? How do we know if they're taught by God? There's no error in their teaching.
Find me the scriptures for that, and then we can really talk. But at this point, this stuff you're telling me is not just unbiblical, but anti-biblical.
Martha: Find me a preacher who preaches what Bishop Johnson preached and then we can really talk.
citizen
02-19-2009, 09:22 AM
Martha: Find me a preacher who preaches what Bishop Johnson preached and then we can really talk.
From what I have heard, and I have listened to many, the preachers that started their own ministry after he died, preach what he preached and give honor to him during their radio sermons.
They seem to really love him and are now carrying on in his footsteps and have brought many people out of trinitarianism into the apostolic way of salvation.
sorry. this reminds me of the guy who's wife died but he couldnt part with her, so he never called the autoritie and just kept her in his house.
goulish.
warrior
02-19-2009, 12:11 PM
Martha: Find me a preacher who preaches what Bishop Johnson preached and then we can really talk.
The Holy Temple Church preaches Bishop Johnson's doctrine totally. Check them out.
warrior
02-19-2009, 12:12 PM
From what I have heard, and I have listened to many, the preachers that started their own ministry after he died, preach what he preached and give honor to him during their radio sermons.
They seem to really love him and are now carrying on in his footsteps and have brought many people out of trinitarianism into the apostolic way of salvation.
Citizen, maybe Martha will check out the Holy Temple Church. They totally preach Bishop Johnson's doctrine if not a bit stricter.
warrior
02-19-2009, 12:17 PM
Martha, are you saying that GOD is UNABLE to impart truth to another man other than Bishop Johson? Please answer.
You said that no one has preached truth before or after Bishop Johnson.
According to you only Bishop Johnson's faithful members are going to heaven. You can't possibly believe that God is that small.
warrior
02-19-2009, 12:18 PM
Martha, please point me in the direction of the scripture that says Bishop Johnson is the LAST APOSTLE. I sincerely want to see it in the Bible.
I pointed you in the direction of a Bishop that teaches exact same doctrine that Bishop Johnson preached, they are Bishop Belton Green and Bishop Melvin Samuels. Now, show me the scripture where it says that please. Thank you.
martha
02-19-2009, 01:01 PM
Martha, I have read your responses, and I don't believe that Bishop Johnson was the last apostle. The scripture doesn't make reference to anyone ever being the last apostle.
Martha: Since no one is preaching what Bishop Johnson preached, and Bishop Johnson was an apostle, Bishop Johnson was the last apostle. Believe what you will but there are no apostles in the world today. An apostle is one whose understanding is given by God and not learned from the elders or taught in the seminaries and also whose preaching is that of truth.
I don't believe that there was no truth before or after him. Saying that would make God a liar. In otherwords, salvation wasn't available until Bishop Johnson. Now you know that isn't true.
Martha: Of course there was the first century church that started on the day of pentecost but we all know that church died out after the death of all the apostles and was replaced by apotasy just like it is today. Can you find the church of pentecost, the first century church, anywhere in history later into the second century? The first century church ceases to exist as was prophesied.
Bishop Johnson did preach that nylons would send you to hell I have a few messages like that.
Martha: I have my personal knowledge of what he said about nylon stockings and that personal knowledge is that NOT WEARING NYLON STOCKS WOULD NOT SEND YOU TO HELL although it was a part of the dress code. I do not deny that the dress code was strict and although it was advanced by Mary Green, Bishop Johnson okayed it and he expected the women to comply with it. Do you see anywhere in the bible where it says long dresses, hats and cotton stockings will send you to hell? I don't think so. Why are you so obsessed with the dress code.
If Bishop Johnson thought the standard that Mary Green made was too strict he had the right to change it as the the pastor.
Martha: I have no knowledge of Bishop Johnson saying that the standard tht Mary Green made was too strict or ever wanted to change it. It continued in the church after Bishop Johnson was dead. It was removed with the last Bishop now presiding over that church as you most likely are aware.
Besides, who gave anyone the right to add to the scriptures. As stated by you, the standards that he set are not in the Bible.
Martha: You, like everyone else in the whole world who knows of Bishop Johnson, you too are obsessed with the dress code. As you well know, the scriptures state that women are to dress in modest apparel as becomes one professing godliness. Bishop Johnson was within his scriptural authority to say what constituted dress as becomes women professing godlines, in his opinion just the same as Apostle Peter was within his right to address womens' dress in the first place. Surely we all know that godly women should not dress like harlots. But everyone has his/her own ideas on what constitutes "dress a becomes a woman professing godliness." Since everyone has their own ideas of what that is, it was necessary that someone establish a "standard" as to WHAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE. Again, why are you obsessed with the womens' dress? Why are you not more concerned with his gospel?
The no son of God theory can easily be challenged with the scriptures.
No it can't.
There are several scriptures that say Jesus is sitting on the right side of his father in heaven.
That's exactly where he is, just as the scripture said he is. What do you think the right hand of the father is? Please don't tell me you think a spirit that fills heaven and earth has a right and left hand. And please don't tell me you think there's two Gods up there.
With all of the Bible reading you say you do, surely you know about those scriptures.
Martha: I know all about them.
The scriptures say that a woman should cover her head when she is praying and prophesying. It says nothing about walking around with your head covered when you are doing neither. Those are more additions to the scripture.
Martha: Since you appear to have once been a part of this church you should remember why he said that. Again, it appears to be the dress code and not the doctrine that you're most concerned with.
It is obvious that there are so many breeds of the Johnsonites because there are those who are waiting on his ressurection from the dead.
Martha: I have NEVER WAITED ON BISHOP JOHNSON TO BE RESURRECTED NOR DO I KNOW ANYONE THAT DOES. Who do YOU KNOW that's waiting for Bishop Johnson to be resurrected (before the first resurrection)?
Anyway, you and your fellow members are so far gone until any other logic wouldn't make a difference to you anyway.
Martha: Bible truth and not "Greek" logic is what matters. It's the Greek logic mentality that does not see what apostle Paul calls the "mystery" of godliness 2nd Tim. 3:16. and therefore does not understand the relationship between the Father and the Son.
In my personal expereinces, I have seen you many people just like you, and it is pretty sad. Bishop Johnson is dead and if God intended for him to still be pastoring people, he would be alive.
Martha: Well now, that's really profound that you can discern that Bishop Johnson is dead and if God intended him to still be pastoring people,he would still be alive. But you don't get it. He's still pastoring people AND HE'S DEAD, just like the other apostles. The principle of God's word is that IT DOES NOT PASS AWAY.
Martha: The word is alive. Peter and Paul and all the apostles are also dead. Do you stop reading their words? They've said all they're going to say in the written word. Where's your "vision" with nothing new being written for the past 2000 years? Same "Old, Old" word. LOL< LOL But people still haven't learned it in all this time!
There are so many things in scripture that you have neglected simply by being pastored by a tape. You know what those things are and I don't have to tell you. I have mentioned many of them and you didn't respond to them.
Martha: I'm not aware of anything you said that I have not responded to, unless it was something frivilous and silly or that I just overlooked. And what have I neglected?
Anyway, you are no different than the others that I know. Believe me, you are truly in my prayers that God would give you an understanding. Bishop Johnson's voice will continue to be just an echo because those who truly know what God is requiring of us have a living pastor.
Martha: And you are exactly like all the others; no love of the truth. Is your living pastor telling you the living word or is he telling you what you want to hear? Or perhaps he's just preaching error and you/he don't mind/know error when you hear it.
The scripture says God will not leave himself without a witness.
Martha: It said no such thing, NOT IN THE WAY YOU SEEM TO BE SAYING IT. Whoever taught you that gave you an erroneous understanding of it. It appears you take that "witness" in this particular scripture to be "preachers of the gospel". When we know that the prophet prophesied that darkness would cover the earth and gross darkness the people (no true word of God), we should know that Acts 14:17 is not talking about men preaching the gospel, not to mention the fact that this particularis scripture is "clear" scripture on the matter. Go back and read Acts 14:17 again and see that Apostle Paul is talking about the "works" of God manifested in fruitful seasons and rain, etc, in the earth that showed His presence in the earth. Those things were His "witness", not preachers of the gospel. Go back and research the first century church and see what happened to it after all the apostles had died. Perhaps you would believe the historians.
By the way, the reason you have not found anyone with truth is because you have convinced yourself that there is no one. Try looking.
Martha: "The reason I have not found anyone preaching the truth is because their preaching does not agree with what the written word says.
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