Proof about Water Baptism

[ApostolicTexas]

I would like to share something that was presented to me.I will have to admit up to this point..I have no answer..but I do know what I experienced in my walk.This guy challenged me with the following.


Brother, i want you to take your bible and look carefully at Acts 2, 8, (Samaritans) 10, 19, and 22, and find where the word water is mentioned, or any indication that they were taken to a river, stream, pool, or that water was brought to them. You will have to admit that you are assuming the water to be there in the text. Which , quite frankly, it is not. You have to be able to answer the question, "How do you know from the scripture that these individuals were baptized with water. Show us....



1. Acts 22:16. Paul didn't get wet. Here's why... "And now why tarriest thou (What are you waiting for?), having risen, having been baptized, having washed away thy sins, having called on the name of the Lord..." Annanias was not telling Paul to stand up and get wet. consider:

Arise: "anastas": Aor. t. Simple English past tense. "Baptised": Aor. Mid. imperit. "having been baptized"- Aor T. again, and in the middle voice. The middle voice lays stress on the action TAKEN TO the subject. It is very close to the passive voice (which is the voice used throughout Acts relative to baptism). The middle and the passive disallow the involvement of the person being baptized as an active participant in their baptism. In other words, when they are baptized, they are a passive recipient. When John the Baptist baptized, most of the voices are in the active voice, which means that they actively participated in their water baptism. Not so in the middle or passive voice. "Washed": middle voice and aor. t. again "having washed ", "Calling": same thing- Aor. t. middle V.

In other words, what Annanias affirms to Paul is: "Now Paul, what are you waiting for? You have been raised (with Christ), you have already been baptized, already been washed and already called on the name of the Lord. " (Implication- Nothing left to do, so get going.)

2. Jhn 4:1-2. This coincides with John 3:22-30, which is in refernce to John the Baptists disciples transitioning over to Jesus. John's ministry was now coming to a close and he was about to be arrested. John said that Jesus must increase but that he must decrease. Look at these passages carefully. After John's disciples transition over to Jesus, water baptism is never performed or taught or brought up again by Christ. That ship has sailed.

3. Christ was water baptized (and there is no text that tells us to "follow Christ in baptism") because as our great high preist, it was necessary for him to be washed with water at the beginning of his ministry just like the Aaronic priests were washed with water at the beginning of theirs. Christ's baptism weas unique to Christ and does not pass down to us. See Ex. 29:4 for this. This is what Jesus was communicating to John when he said, "Let it be done so that we might fulfill all righteousness."

Where's the water?




What would be your response?

[ApostolicTexas]

I do believe in Acts 2:38 and have already experienced it years ago.I just wanted to point it out..I never had this challenge and I have found a crack in my armour

[Michael The Disciple]

Here is the water.

35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Acts 8:35-36

The context is the same as the other verses. Souls getting saved. This proves baptism is linked to water.

Consider this:

4: Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5: When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6: And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7: And all the men were about twelve. Acts 19: 4-7

Now if water was not present the alternative as presented by these teachers is they were baptized in the spirit.

Their problem is that the scripture THEN SAYS AFTER THE MEN HAD BEEN BAPTIZED......THEN the Spirit came upon them.

After they had been baptized in what? After THAT experience THEN they were baptized in THE SPIRIT.

Remember Yeshua said we must be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT to enter Heaven.

[Apollo]

Answer to eunuch situation: that portion of scripture is widely considered added after the fact. That would basically mean water was not in the original document.

Answer to water and spirit debacle: it happens simutaneously. Rather, as acts 2:38 puts it, you must be baptized in the name of Jesus and you SHALL recieve the gift of the holy ghost.

Sin is remitted a single time. Cleansing baptism fallowed by robe of spirit.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

I do believe in Acts 2:38 and have already experienced it years ago.I just wanted to point it out..I never had this challenge and I have found a crack in my armour

Just a thought

We do not baptize in the spirit God does So when Jesus commands his disiples to baptize Mark 15:16 and Matt 28:19 then what kind of baptism could possibly be refered to here? Don't let the man crack your faith. We are save by faith not of works anyway. I personaly do no beleive water baptism is part of our initial salvation. But is still a command of God just as living right. James did say I will show you my faith by my works. The main point I want to drive home is our salvation and relasionship with God is not determined on works. If this cracks your armour then you need a closer walk with God.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

I would like to share something that was presented to me.I will have to admit up to this point..I have no answer..but I do know what I experienced in my walk.This guy challenged me with the following.


Brother, i want you to take your bible and look carefully at Acts 2, 8, (Samaritans) 10, 19, and 22, and find where the word water is mentioned, or any indication that they were taken to a river, stream, pool, or that water was brought to them. You will have to admit that you are assuming the water to be there in the text. Which , quite frankly, it is not. You have to be able to answer the question, "How do you know from the scripture that these individuals were baptized with water. Show us....



1. Acts 22:16. Paul didn't get wet. Here's why... "And now why tarriest thou (What are you waiting for?), having risen, having been baptized, having washed away thy sins, having called on the name of the Lord..." Annanias was not telling Paul to stand up and get wet. consider:

Arise: "anastas": Aor. t. Simple English past tense. "Baptised": Aor. Mid. imperit. "having been baptized"- Aor T. again, and in the middle voice. The middle voice lays stress on the action TAKEN TO the subject. It is very close to the passive voice (which is the voice used throughout Acts relative to baptism). The middle and the passive disallow the involvement of the person being baptized as an active participant in their baptism. In other words, when they are baptized, they are a passive recipient. When John the Baptist baptized, most of the voices are in the active voice, which means that they actively participated in their water baptism. Not so in the middle or passive voice. "Washed": middle voice and aor. t. again "having washed ", "Calling": same thing- Aor. t. middle V.

In other words, what Annanias affirms to Paul is: "Now Paul, what are you waiting for? You have been raised (with Christ), you have already been baptized, already been washed and already called on the name of the Lord. " (Implication- Nothing left to do, so get going.)

2. Jhn 4:1-2. This coincides with John 3:22-30, which is in refernce to John the Baptists disciples transitioning over to Jesus. John's ministry was now coming to a close and he was about to be arrested. John said that Jesus must increase but that he must decrease. Look at these passages carefully. After John's disciples transition over to Jesus, water baptism is never performed or taught or brought up again by Christ. That ship has sailed.

3. Christ was water baptized (and there is no text that tells us to "follow Christ in baptism") because as our great high preist, it was necessary for him to be washed with water at the beginning of his ministry just like the Aaronic priests were washed with water at the beginning of theirs. Christ's baptism weas unique to Christ and does not pass down to us. See Ex. 29:4 for this. This is what Jesus was communicating to John when he said, "Let it be done so that we might fulfill all righteousness."

Where's the water?




What would be your response?

Hello AP,

I really think it is a weak argument. For someone to affirm that all of these instances are not speaking of water baptism is to go against the plain reading of the text. As the saying goes, scripture interprets scripture. Water baptism is plainly spoken of enough in the new testament, that I believe it would be quite a foolish conclusion to suggest none of the baptisms in Acts had to do with water.

Bro. jason

[Michael The Disciple]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Apollo

Answer to eunuch situation: that portion of scripture is widely considered added after the fact. That would basically mean water was not in the original document.

Someone has been feeding you false information.

8:35 Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached to him Jesus. 8:36 As they went on the way, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Behold, here is water. What is keeping me from being baptized?”

8:37 * 8:38 He commanded the chariot to stand still, and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, and the eunuch didn’t see him any more, for he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:35-39

The scripture in question is where Phillip tells the Eunuch "if you believe with all your heart you may".

As noted with an asterik it does not appear here in the World English Bible. The word WATER appears unquestioned four separate times in this scripture portion.

[Michael The Disciple]

We do not baptize in the spirit God does So when Jesus commands his disiples to baptize Mark 15:16 and Matt 28:19 then what kind of baptism could possibly be refered to here?

An excellent point.

[LUKE2447]

Poor argument.... why does a person have to say water when they understand the method and what baptism is. Agree with the point of above also... when told to baptize or shown to baptize someone that is clearly a reference to water baptism not spiritual.

also please explain how in the world you came up with the interpretation of Atcs 22:16 I see the what you wrote but NO SCHOLAR puts this into translation of a major version that I have ever seen. Who did you give as support for such an interpretation and show me how you it "demands' it to be the case.

What version EVER puts 22:16 in the past tense?

ALT) 'And now, why are you delaying? Having gotten up, get yourself baptized, and get yourself washed [or, purified] [of] your sins by you yourself calling on the name of the Lord.' [cp. Acts 2:21]

(ASV) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.

(BBE) And now, why are you waiting? get up, and have baptism, for the washing away of your sins, giving worship to his name.

(CEV) What are you waiting for? Get up! Be baptized, and wash away your sins by praying to the Lord."

(DRB) And now why tarriest thou? Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

(ESV) And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

(KJVR) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

(LITV) And now what do you intend? Rising up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

(NET) And now what are you waiting for?58 Get up,59 be baptized, and have your sins washed away,60 calling on his name.'61

(RV) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.

(YLT) and now, why tarriest thou? having risen, baptize thyself, and wash away thy sins, calling upon the name of the Lord.

Also you are sticking with one verse. There is a reason this argument fails. People have tried to make the term baptism mean not water every time they mention it. go to carm.com and go to the baptism board in there forum. This has been debated many times and it gets destroyed everytime. I don't have the time here.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Just a thought

We do not baptize in the spirit God does So when Jesus commands his disiples to baptize Mark 15:16 and Matt 28:19 then what kind of baptism could possibly be refered to here? Don't let the man crack your faith. We are save by faith not of works anyway. I personaly do no beleive water baptism is part of our initial salvation. But is still a command of God just as living right. James did say I will show you my faith by my works. The main point I want to drive home is our salvation and relasionship with God is not determined on works. If this cracks your armour then you need a closer walk with God.

The you don't like much of the bible then do you as virtually the whole bible is against both of your beliefs. Your eternal salvation is judged by your works. You have destroyed the Words of Jesus for false doctrine!