For the Record!

[Pastor Keith]

Someone sent me a topic on another unnamed forum. The question is what church is there among us (UPCI) that is having revival with the following characteristics:

Cut Hair
Makeup
Women Wearing Pants
People going to Movies
and the other separation issues.

I am not currently UPC though I am a 5 generational UPCIer, graduated from a UPC Bible College, served on the staff of the largest UPC church and still have extensive connections to it. So I don't know if I exactly qualify in answering the question in the topic. But I think I can say that I believe I qualify as one experiencing revival in our church, without having our church focus on those outward marks of traditional holiness that has always been associated with the "Doctrine".

In less than one year's time, we have more than doubled in attendance, I have personally baptized over 25 people in Jesus name in the last 6 months, seen many of them receive the spirit, teach/taught the 3 step experience of Acts 2:38 as being the normative experience for Christian intiation.

Our attendance goal of 125 will be most likely met by Easter.

So in answer to the that topic, I represent a church that is experiencing NT revival in every since of the word.

Anyone from the UPCI care to argue that I am not experiencing revival?

[gloryseeker]

Personally I would just question your definition of revival. What you explained is getting people saved and building a church which is just fundamental Christianity. The last statistic that I read stated that the average church size in America is 94 persons. That places you just over average. I think it is great what is happening for you and I would say "Rock on in the Name of Jesus!"

When studying real revivals...Azusa, Welsh, etc the movement changed a people, nation, or land. While I applaud your growth, personally I would say it would not fit the definition of what true revival is.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Personally I would just question your definition of revival. What you explained is getting people saved and building a church which is just fundamental Christianity. The last statistic that I read stated that the average church size in America is 94 persons. That places you just over average. I think it is great what is happening for you and I would say "Rock on in the Name of Jesus!"

When studying real revivals...Azusa, Welsh, etc the movement changed a people, nation, or land. While I applaud your growth, personally I would say it would not fit the definition of what true revival is.

From a historical perspective I agree, but sometimes by improper usage, words loose their original meaning, I meant by what in UPCI circles revival has come to mean. Souls being saved, church growth, finances up, goals being met, etc.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

From a historical perspective I agree, but sometimes by improper usage, words loose their original meaning, I meant by what in UPCI circles revival has come to mean. Souls being saved, church growth, finances up, goals being met, etc.

I have a problem with this and I will tell you why. First of all my problem is not with what you have said. I agree with you. From what your church is experiencing I say "FANTASTIC".

Unfortunately, you are correct in that this is what most call revival and when we accept this as revival then our faith accepts church growth, finances up, goals being met and a major victory. But what this world, especially America, needs is a REAL revival. Where the Spirit of God is so prevalent that man's heart is changed, that it brings change to our culture, and that the glory of the Lord is manifested in a way where no one gets the credit except for God and God alone.

However, if we don't view this as "revival" then when we talk about revival all we focus on (or release our faith in) is a bigger church and more money. I am all for that, but that should be a result of real revival not the goal that we have set.

As for me, I could care less about church growth for church growth sake. I would rather have a small group of people that hungry for the Presence of God and a desire to get the true Word (not man's doctrinal interpretation of holiness nor this watered down seeker sensitive stuff that has emerged) spread throughout this world.

I believe that we as Christian "settle" for too much that is way below what God intends. Example, someone gets in a bad car wreck and lives but their body doesn't work like it did before. We are claiming victory over this when part of our covenant is total healing. There are too many instances where we have dumbed-down what God has said and we accept that a good.

Real revival will change a nation and this nation needs God's manifest Presence back in it like Topeka, Kansas and Azusa Street.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Personally I would just question your definition of revival. What you explained is getting people saved and building a church which is just fundamental Christianity. The last statistic that I read stated that the average church size in America is 94 persons. That places you just over average. I think it is great what is happening for you and I would say "Rock on in the Name of Jesus!"

When studying real revivals...Azusa, Welsh, etc the movement changed a people, nation, or land. While I applaud your growth, personally I would say it would not fit the definition of what true revival is.

Revival, in the Bible anyways, is usually defined by whole nations turning around -aka, Nineveh. Another modern example may be what is happening/happened in Ethiopia. By this definition, Azusa street was a mere "church service".

[All4one]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Revival, in the Bible anyways, is usually defined by whole nations turning around -aka, Nineveh. Another modern example may be what is happening/happened in Ethiopia. By this definition, Azusa street was a mere "church service".

When I think of revival I think of lives being changed and people turning their hearts back to God. Multiple individual revivals bring about national revivals.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by All4one

When I think of revival I think of lives being changed and people turning their hearts back to God. Multiple individual revivals bring about national revivals.

I agree completely. Was just playing around with what could be considered a real biblical definition.

I also think those who say that 20 people being baptized is NOT real revival will turn around and say that 3 women who stop wearing pants and start wearing jean skirts is.

[RevDWW]

Why are you worried what anyone else thinks? You are independent, so be independent. Preach the normative experience of Acts 2:38 and have biblical growth, and revival. If your looking to get man's reward, and even if they do you won't have much. Please God and be happy with it!

[Pastor Keith]

I want to debunk the myth about NT doctrine+traditonal holiness standards= revival.
Some believe without traditional holiness standards then revival doesn't happen.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I want to debunk the myth about NT doctrine+traditonal holiness standards= revival.
Some believe without traditional holiness standards then revival doesn't happen.

I say "HogWash."