Feast of trumpets

[mfblume]

This is an offshoot from another thread about feast of Tabernacles.

Personally, taking the autumn feasts and claiming that since Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts and Pentecost on the precise same days He will likewise do the same for the autumn feasts can take us into all sorts of error. There are many theories that really have no bible backing. For example the feast of trumpets has been purported to foretell the second coming of the Lord and will take place on the seventh Hebrew month and the first day, in the fall of whatever year He comes. Where does the Lord or apostles ever say anything like this about the feasts?

A brother whom I know saw a spiritual progression in the feasts. Which brings me to the issue of the feast of trumpets.

We see these seven feast at three times in a year pointing to three stages of spiritual development. A good way to explain what these three stages are is Ephesians chapter two verse four through six.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Quickened together is being made alive which is our new birth experience, (Passover).

Then raised together is resurrection life and points to being filled with the Spirit experience, (Pentecost)

We know by the Word that these are separate experiences. Passover and Pentecost were celebrated at different times. Being filled with the Spirit is not the end experience. There is another feast at the end of the year when the full crop is grown and the great ingathering comes. There is a great ingathering coming at the end of this church age, but what we are looking at is now and this feast also speaks of the great fruit harvest in your own life of things Jesus is in you.

On the first day of the seventh month was the Feast of Trumpets.

On the tenth day of the seventh month was the Day of Atonement. The most sacred day in the natural nation of Israel's existence. It was the day in which the Priest went behind the veil and cleansed the sin of the nation of Israel for a year. They were so looking for the time when that High Priest would walk out from behind that veil and they knew that the offering had been accepted and their sins were covered.

Then on the fifteenth day to the twenty first day was the Feast of Tabernacles. This was where they dwelt in booths, that's why it's also called the Feast of Booths. They dwelt in little shacks made of different kinds of tress and it's representative of thinking about when they left Egypt for them. For us it means that God is making us a tabernacle for His presence.

Leviticus 23:23-27
23 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
26 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

The Feast of Trumpets.

Numbers 10:1-2
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.

Silver was always associated with redemption in the word. TWO trumpets were noted. There is a repeated issue regarding union of the believer with Christ in salvation. We died with Him (Jesus united to you). We were buried, risen and seated with Him.

The fall feasts represent spiritual maturity beyond Pentecost's Spirit infilling. It is where we really come to a place of a spirituality so we can enjoy everything the cross paid for us to enjoy, all the promises of God. So many of us do not enjoy the fullness due to lack of spiritual understanding and maturity to believe for and realize these things.

More...

[mfblume]

What does the Bible say happened when trumpets blew?

Isaiah 58:1
1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Trumpets point to a prophetic voice. A word. And shew my people. Would that word "shew" speak of revelation?

2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Here's a people who take delight in approaching to God, but they still have sin on their lives. Therefore, a trumpet is to sound. God said to Isaiah, "Lift up your voice like a trumpet and show them their sin."

So here is a revelation. The way we would apply that in our day since redemption has happened is to show people our sin in Him. He became sin for us. That would take care of sin in your life. This is the message all the way through the Scripture -- trumpets picture a showing or a revealing. It pictures something being seen that wasn't seen before. Look at first Corinthians chapter fourteen and we will see a New Testament place where Paul talks about trumpets.

1 Corinthians 14:8
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

God is sending a clarion sound through out the Church to explain to people their purpose in life. Your purpose in life is to grow up and be in His image.

This last set of three autumn feasts begins with TRUMPETS. And the three fall feasts speak of maturity in Christ. Trumpets begins this with a note of sounding revelation!

[mfblume]

The idea of spiritual development of the believer after Passover and Pentecost is so much taught in the epistles. And to realize that trumpets always alerted people, and to see Isaiah associate it with giving of revelation -- shewing my people -- I can see so much significance in the first feast of the Autumnal Tabernacles series to be that of Trumpets. Revelations. Alerts. Announcements.

Spiritual revelation is signified by trumpets. And to emphasize the need for revelation to grow, trumpets would be the expected thought to begin this last set of feasts.

Again, people see types in things that the New Testament never teaches about. I have always felt the conviction that unless a type is interpreted by a plain statement in the New Testament, we cannot say it is a type.

My thoughts so far...

[Godsdrummer]

Funny you should start a thread on the feast as pertaining to new testemant christians. I have been getting ready to do a study on the feast days and how they should relate to the church today. It seems at this time of year when we are going through the holidays and the idea of christians celibrating reformed pagan cerimonies that have been starilized to seem to be christian. that the thought has risen in my mind that we should be celibrating the feast days. These seem to be the things that Jesus did celibrate in his ministry.

[mfblume]

Actually celebrating the feasts days was addressed by Paul as error. Gal 4 speaks of the feast days and holy years and months, which, when kept by the church, concerned Paul. But studying them for the types and interpretations is wonderful.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Actually celebrating the feasts days was addressed by Paul as error. Gal 4 speaks of the feast days and holy years and months, which, when kept by the church, concerned Paul. But studying them for the types and interpretations is wonderful.

I don't see this in the passage I just read I don't see this as the feast days rather I see it as doing just what we do today lifting days up above others IE. Christimas, birthdays, holy days, Easter etc, we do not observe the days as they did in new testament times. I think we are wrong all the way that is all I am saying. I want to do a study to try to find what we should truely do in worship to God. See I also am studing the idea of house churches as opposed to buildings. As I see it each family in OT comprised a house church, God wanted them to come together on a regular basis hence the feast days, Days to come together to worship God corporatly.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I don't see this in the passage I just read I don't see this as the feast days rather I see it as doing just what we do today lifting days up above others IE. Christimas, birthdays, holy days, Easter etc, we do not observe the days as they did in new testament times. I think we are wrong all the way that is all I am saying. I want to do a study to try to find what we should truely do in worship to God. See I also am studing the idea of house churches as opposed to buildings. As I see it each family in OT comprised a house church, God wanted them to come together on a regular basis hence the feast days, Days to come together to worship God corporatly.

I believe it is definitely pointing to feast days of Israel. A while back I made a study of Galatians and here are my findings. I can only share my findings and may everyone weigh them out before God with their own consciences.

Gal. 3 speaks of the foolish Galatians who were duped into reverting to law keeping. Paul taught that the law did not cancel out the Promise of God to Abraham although it was a genuine covenant. God's promises were still in effect, and law, which is not of promise, seemed to revoke such a thing. Law only came, though, as an interim time until the time the Seed should come due to transgressions creeping into Israel and messing it all up for the Messiah to come.

Paul begins to refer to his people using the pronoun "we". He is speaking to gentile converts. And the personal pronouns "we" and "you" are very important here in his explanation.

Galatians 3:23-26 KJV But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (24) Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith. (25) But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster. (26) For ye [YOU GENTILES] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

See how law was strictly intended for Israel alone to lead them up to Christ. This makes good sense since Gentiles were not under Law for Law to be able to bring them to Christ. Otherwise, they would no longer be gentiles, but Jews, too!

Paul said that YOU GENTILES are children of God by faith, without anything to do with Law. His reasoning was that law did not bring YOU gentiles to Christ, but just Jews. And although Law brought Jews to Christ, when they actually did come to Christ they were justified by the same faith that saved the gentiles.

This tells us, by the way, that the manner in which Law brought Israel to Christ was through teaching them principles through the ceremonies and rituals that foreshadowed Christ as well as emphasizing need for sacrifice for sin.

Since the Gentiles were brought INTO CHRIST through faith, they are Abraham's seed as much as any Jewish believer.

Galatians 4:1-5 KJV Now I say, That the heir [JEW DESTINED FOR PROMISE TO ABRAHAM], as long as he is a child [JEW BEFORE CHRIST COMES], differeth nothing from a servant [GENTILES NOT HEIRS WHO WERE SERVANTS IN BONDAGE - JEWS BOUND BY LAW AS GENTILES BOUND IN SERVICE TO FALSE GODS], though he be lord of all [HEIR IS PROMISED LORDSHIP BUT NO DIFFERENT THAN GENTILE UNDER LAW IN REGARDS TO BEING BOUND]; (2) But is under tutors and governors [JEWS' FORM OF BONDAGE SO TO SPEAK] until the time appointed of the father. (3) Even so we [JEWS], when we were children, were in bondage under the elements [LAW WAS ELEMENTARY SCHOOLING - see 3:24-25 THAT BOUND ISRAEL] of the world: (4) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, (5) To redeem them that were under the law [JEWS], that we [JEWS] might receive the adoption of sons.

As much as graduation day frees a student from tutors and governors, as though they were bound, Jews were freed from law-keeping (instituted only due to transgressions til the Seed, Christ, should come) when Jesus arrived. Graduation day was when Jesus arrived. The heirs were no longer children in elementary school when Jesus came. They were intended to be graduates, but most became dropouts!

continued...

[Trouvere]

I don't believe Paul was speaking of the feast days as much as he was speaking of them turning back to Judaism. That is why I am concerned with all these Hebrew roots things developing. We have seen people get into them and turn away from even believing that Jesus was Messiah. There is no salvation in the law as the Jews kept them anymore.
Celebrating the feasts as a means of study or a means of understanding how Jesus was
the fullfillment is not wrong. What is wrong is going back and keeping the laws thinking in them is salvation. Salvation is only in Jesus Christ and and the New Covenant.
I have celebrated all the feasts with my daughters as a form of study. It was very fun to do so. I just would never tell any one they had to do it to be saved because that would be non biblical.

[mfblume]

Galatians 4:6-8 KJV And because ye [GENTILE BELIEVERS] are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your [GENTILE] hearts, crying, Abba, Father. (7) Wherefore thou art no more a servant [GENTILES as in 4:1], but a son; and if a son, then an heir [JUST LIKE JEWS WHO WERE ALWAYS HEIRS] of God through Christ. (8) Howbeit then, when ye [GENTILES] knew not God, ye did service [REASON THEY WERE CALLED SERVANTS in 4:1] unto them which by nature are no gods [IDOLATRY].

While Israel was in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL of Law and the people were HEIRS ALONE of the promise to Abraham, Gentiles were in idolatry and not heirs at all. But salvation came to gentiles as well as Jews, and Gentiles were then made sons as much as the heirs were sons already.

Galatians 4:9-11 KJV But now, after that ye [GENTILES] have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye [GENTILES] again to the weak and beggarly elements [ELEMENTARY SCHOOL OF LAW INTENDED ONLY FOR ISRAEL BEFORE CHRIST, AFTER WHICH ISRAEL WAS RELEASED AS GRADUATES], whereunto ye [GENTILES] desire again to be in bondage [AS JEWS WERE "UNDER" TUTORS AND GOVERNORS, HELD BACK FROM PROMISE]? (10) Ye [GENTILES] observe days, and months, and times, and years [THE LAW'S FEAST DAYS AND SABBATHS AND HOLY MONTHS and YEARS -- the ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FOR ISRAEL ALONE BEFORE CHRIST]. (11) I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Paul actually stated that the elements of the world, or the ELEMENTARY SCHOOL system of Israel was only for Israel and no one else before Christ came. Once Christ came that elementary school system served its purpose and the ceremonies and feast days and sabbaths had no more point to carry on. They only taught principles of Christ, and Christ had come. They were released from those holy days, etc., since graduatioon from those things occurred. So, why would saved Gentiles be reverting to what was Israel's pre-Christ elementary school when the Israelites, themselves, were freed from those things when Christ came?

This is what my personal studies came up with, and I LATER found witnesses from scholars saying the same thing:

ADAM CLARKE:
To the weak and beggarly elements - After receiving all this, will ye turn again to the ineffectual rites and ceremonies of the Mosaic law - rites too weak to counteract your sinful habits, and too poor to purchase pardon and eternal life for you? If the Galatians were turning again to them, it is evident that they had been once addicted to them. And this they might have been, allowing that they had become converts from heathenism to Judaism, and from Judaism to Christianity. This makes the sense consistent between the 8th and 9th verses.

Ye observe days - Ye superstitiously regard the Sabbaths and particular days of your own appointment;

And months - New moons; times - festivals, such as those of tabernacles, dedication, passover, etc.

Years - Annual atonements, sabbatical years, and jubilees.


ALBERT BARNES
To the weak and beggarly elements - To the rites and ceremonies of the Jewish law, imposing a servitude really not less severe than the customs of paganism. On the word elements, see the note at Gal_4:3. They are called “weak” because they had no power to save the soul; no power to justify the sinner before God. They are called “beggarly” (Greek πτωχὰ ptōcha, poor), because they could not impart spiritual riches. They really could confer few benefits on man. Or it may be, as Locke supposes, because the Law kept people in the poor estate of pupils from the full enjoyment of the inheritance; Gal_4:1-3.
Whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage - As if you had a wish to be under servitude. The absurdity is as great as it would be for a man who had been freed from slavery to desire his chains again. They had been freed by the gospel from the galling servitude of paganism, and they now again had sunk into the Jewish observances, as if they preferred slavery to freedom, and were willing to go from one form of it to another.

Days - The days here referred to are doubtless the days of the Jewish festivals. They had numerous days of such observances, and in addition to those specified in the Old Testament, the Jews had added many others as days commemorative of the destruction and rebuilding of the temple, and of other important events in their history. It is not a fair interpretation of this to suppose that the apostle refers to the Sabbath, properly so called, for this was a part of the Decalogue; and was observed by the Saviour himself, and by the apostles also. It is a fair interpretation to apply it to all those days which are not commanded to be kept holy in the Scriptures; and hence, the passage is as applicable to the observance of saints’ days, and days in honor of particular events in sacred history, as to the days observed by the Galatians. There is as real servitude in the observance of the numerous festivals, and fasts in the papal communion and in some Protestant churches, as there was in the observance of the days in the Jewish ecclesiastical calendar, and for anything that I can see, such observances are as inconsistent now with the freedom of the gospel as they were in the time of Paul. We should observe as seasons of holy time what it can be proved God has commanded us, and no more.

And months - The festivals of the new moon, kept by the Jews. Num_10:10; Num_28:11-14. On this festival, in addition to the daily sacrifice, two bullocks, a ram, and seven sheep of a year old were offered in sacrifice. The appearance of the new-moon was announced by the sound of trumpets. See Jahn, Archae. 352.

And times - Stated times; festivals returning periodically, as the Passover, the Feast of Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles. See Jahn, Archae. chap. 3. 346-360.

And years - The sabbatical year, or the year of jubilee.

So when Messianics (God love them!) tell people everyone as Christians should be keeping the feast days, as Trouvere said, it concerns me since they have missed Paul's revelation laid forth in Galatians 3 through 4. And they actually think it is referring to pagan feast days when in reality it is referring to the elementary school system of Law of Moses mentioned in 3:24.

HEY EVERYONE, STOP KEEPING FEAST DAYS AND HOLY YEARS AND HOLY MONTHS! ! We have the BODY NOW -- Jesus, not the shadows cast back in time by the body. We have the substance.

My thoughts, anyway. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Originally Posted by Trouvere

I don't believe Paul was speaking of the feast days as much as he was speaking of them turning back to Judaism. That is why I am concerned with all these Hebrew roots things developing. We have seen people get into them and turn away from even believing that Jesus was Messiah. There is no salvation in the law as the Jews kept them anymore.
Celebrating the feasts as a means of study or a means of understanding how Jesus was
the fullfillment is not wrong. What is wrong is going back and keeping the laws thinking in them is salvation. Salvation is only in Jesus Christ and and the New Covenant.
I have celebrated all the feasts with my daughters as a form of study. It was very fun to do so. I just would never tell any one they had to do it to be saved because that would be non biblical.

Amen and amen. Paul's point, I agree, was the thought being error that says we HAVE TO keep these feasts to please God. If this is done as a learning session and not a "HAVE TO" in order to please God, it is alright. But as soon as we make it a requirement to serving God, even if not to save us, it is error. That is why Paul told the Colossians they were complete in Christ. No "need" for anything including holy days, months, years and feasts. Enjoy these things if you wish, but do not make them A NEED.

[Godsdrummer]

Amen and amen. Paul's point, I agree, was the thought being error that says we HAVE TO keep these feasts to please God. If this is done as a learning session and not a "HAVE TO" in order to please God, it is alright. But as soon as we make it a requirement to serving God, even if not to save us, it is error. That is why Paul told the Colossians they were complete in Christ. No "need" for anything including holy days, months, years and feasts. Enjoy these things if you wish, but do not make them A NEED.[/QUOTE]

That is the point I am making I am not saying they are a have to to be saved. As for that matter our salvation is not base on works but faith in the Gospel of Christ. But if you can see the direction I am heading with house churches there is a need to come together on occasion for group fellowship. This is what I see God doing with Isreal. My understanding is they did not have regular church services or meetings as we do today. Each home was a church for a better word. yet they needed to whole nation just as we need the whole body to draw strength, this is what I see God doing with the feasts days. They were times when all came together to worship at one place several times a year. We do this every Sunday and many say if we don't attend it is sin. I don't beleive this any more but it is still benificial to worship as a larger group. Even Paul stated to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.
See the problem I see is after two or three generations every movement becomes a religion. And this is not where God was directon teh kingdom of God. When we become a religion we raise men/women into the position that God belongs. Just as Isreal did when they wanted a king. We would rather do as Isreal said to Moses, we don't want to hear God you tell us and we will obey. But God did not robe himself in flesh and give himself on the cross just so we could go back to the old way. We are to come to God on a personal realm.
The word of God is a personal guide book to the individual not given to pastors to interperit and then give to the layity.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.