Destroyed by Pure Knowledge?

[NotforSale]

Is it possible man is unable to sustain, possess, or even comprehend pure knowledge? He is bound by an impure/limited mind, and to combine the two (pure/limitless and impure/limited), the result might be an inevitable meltdown. We do know man has his limitations, his boundaries keeping him at bay. For instance, we are basically confined to Planet Earth (a boundary) and the Galaxy beyond proves how little we know or ever will know.

Science even seems to fortify this concept. Certain opposites can never be combined because one will take over the other. For instance, light: Darkness can never exist in light. One ceases, and the other has no choice but to dominate or destroy the other.

In the purest sense of knowledge, one must consider its darkest potential by giving it to impure people. We think we will thrive with it, but the opposite has been proven. Take Einstein’s contribution to the splitting of Atoms. This deep science or knowledge produced the most massive WMD ever known to man. We are now capable of ceasing all life on Planet Earth from our new insight into dimensions that are in fact, REAL.

What’s strange is our complete lust for knowledge. It seems almost natural we are driven with this desire. Let’s not forget the Garden; Adam and Eve were tempted by the unknown, and this is what we consider the Great Fall of man, eating from the Tree of Knowledge.

We understand, to know means we have the advantage over those who don’t, giving us the one thing ALL humans seek; POWER. Our fear is defined by the inevitable fact that ignorance is lurking, leaving in its wake a manipulated people who may be following a lie. So, we seek her (knowledge) in full force like those who ran for the Gold Mines of California. It means that much to us. This is why we are on this Forum. We want to KNOW!

The problem still lies in this, though; if pure, untainted, absolute KNOWLEDGE is possessed by mortal man, what would happen? Could our “splitting of more atoms” lead us to annihilation? If we truly find the answers that we are looking for in the perfect sense, would our minds explode or would we conquer the Earth because fallacy and infallible cannot coexist?

We see bits and pieces, but our clawing to discover only opens another door. Is this something we can accept, or will our lust for knowledge drive us in circles until we die? Paul said, we see through a glass darkly. Should we accept some of our futility in this effort as being OK?

One thing cannot be denied; The Religious World is wanting knowledge and to lay claim to its deep mysteries, and yet, agreement is by far over and has never been obtained. If God allowed “One Faith” to access pure knowledge, we must ask ourselves, what would really happen?

Was God’s plan of innocence in the beginning a perfect design?

[KWSS1976]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quU6Yb9k0qo

[jfrog]

Interesting. Close to what I was thinking just a bit earlier...

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Interesting. Close to what I was thinking just a bit earlier...

Do you mind expounding a little? There is so much to this.

What really intrigues me is how simplicity brings peace, and knowledge complicates, at least in the extreme/pure measure. If I read Genesis correctly, God tried to keep man from the "Know", allowing him to live in a state that was enough, and simple.

Even Jesus said, "Take no thought for the morrow", but that's all we do as people. We worry, store up, and break our backs for the morrow because we “Know”. Another thing Jesus said, "Except ye become as this little child". Was this the initial state of Man in the Garden? The state of innocence.

Our World is full of technology (inventions, machines, ect) that are designed to make the Earth a better place to live. Is this really true? Is our age of extreme understanding leading us down a road of peace?

Religion is not exempt. We know more than we've ever known, but are we better off? People seem more confused than they've ever been. Agreement is a million miles from being reached, and our hearts can seem so empty amidst all of this information.

As soon as we settle a score, another door opens. Someone has new insight, a new revelation. It just seems we were not meant to handle the deeper meanings of things, only because we are so limited, God never intending for Man know as much as he does.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Do you mind expounding a little? There is so much to this.

What really intrigues me is how simplicity brings peace, and knowledge complicates, at least in the extreme/pure measure. If I read Genesis correctly, God tried to keep man from the "Know", allowing him to live in a state that was enough, and simple.

Even Jesus said, "Take no thought for the morrow", but that's all we do as people. We worry, store up, and break our backs for the morrow because we “Know”. Another thing Jesus said, "Except ye become as this little child". Was this the initial state of Man in the Garden? The state of innocence.

Our World is full of technology (inventions, machines, ect) that are designed to make the Earth a better place to live. Is this really true? Is our age of extreme understanding leading us down a road of peace?

Religion is not exempt. We know more than we've ever known, but are we better off? People seem more confused than they've ever been. Agreement is a million miles from being reached, and our hearts can seem so empty amidst all of this information.

As soon as we settle a score, another door opens. Someone has new insight, a new revelation. It just seems we were not meant to handle the deeper meanings of things, only because we are so limited, God never intending for Man know as much as he does.

I'm not convinced that knowledge of itself is evil. Though I think many times the way in which knowledge is pursued can be evil. I think knowledge is a good thing and not to be refused. Knowledge neither makes the world better or worse in my opinion. Knowledge simply is the medium through which men choose to do good or evil. Though knowledge often leads to more questions and the answers to those lead to even more.

What is amazing to me is that some things are unknowable. Some things can even be proven to be unknowable. There are some of these kinds of proofs in mathematics... Proofs that tell us no general solution of certain things can be reached even though we have proven that every one of those things actually have a solution.

I do agree on religion. That the more the bible is studied the more the christian religion forms factions. I don't think this has to do with knowledge in general but I think it reveals a problem with using the bible as a solo guide to religious knowledge.

I don't think Jesus was teaching about us forsaking responsibilities. I think he was trying to get us to live in a such a way that we would behold the world in wonder and enjoy it and not to constantly worry and think about every little thing because worry doesn't really do anything for us.

[jfrog]

I once wrote a poem about the pursuit of knowledge... It seems fitting so I'll post it.

Chasing Stars

Lying down, half erect, half submerged, with warmth easing me into something more than thought but less than dream
And slipping further down I hear my heart beat, beat, beat and though only seconds really passed I lost hours in my mind
So in my state of bliss with eyes closed yet staring beyond the temporal ceiling into the black bright starry filled eternity
From one star to another I wandered aimlessly, the flawlessness of each and all overtaking me, but now comes the time of departure
And though I dare not leave these stars unattended, unobserved, I dare not tarry longer

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm not convinced that knowledge of itself is evil. Though I think many times the way in which knowledge is pursued can be evil. I think knowledge is a good thing and not to be refused. Knowledge neither makes the world better or worse in my opinion. Knowledge simply is the medium through which men choose to do good or evil. Though knowledge often leads to more questions and the answers to those lead to even more.

What is amazing to me is that some things are unknowable. Some things can even be proven to be unknowable. There are some of these kinds of proofs in mathematics... Proofs that tell us no general solution of certain things can be reached even though we have proven that every one of those things actually have a solution.

I do agree on religion. That the more the bible is studied the more the christian religion forms factions. I don't think this has to do with knowledge in general but I think it reveals a problem with using the bible as a solo guide to religious knowledge.

I don't think Jesus was teaching about us forsaking responsibilities. I think he was trying to get us to live in a such a way that we would behold the world in wonder and enjoy it and not to constantly worry and think about every little thing because worry doesn't really do anything for us.

I agree. Knowledge itself is not evil. Splitting Atoms is simply that, splitting Atoms. It's when man (impure) has access to pure knowledge where the problem seems to begin or end.

According to what I think mainstream Christians believe, me included, is that God is All Knowing. God knows everything, even though it may be endless. Like eternity, hard to comprehend or understand.

Moses could not look into the Face of God. Why? No man can see Him and live, His Glory beyond mankind’s ability to conceive the incorruptible (our barrier). Barriers bind us, and Pure Knowledge opens every door. This would obliterate us. Only God can behold All Things.

We must be kept at limits, or so it seems.

Interesting; knowing there is a solution, yet can't produce it.

Forsaking responsibilities is not really my point, but what responsibilities have we developed through our craving for knowledge. Knowledge creates. We (humans) create what we lust for. Soon, we are surrounded by things that make life complicated. At every turn is maintenance and the need for more knowledge.

Example; 1 Automobile-The cost of the Auto (Loan), Insurance, tires, oil changes, Transmission service, Timing belt changes, Light changes, windshield wipers, Brake pads, Spark plugs, Winter driving (snow tires, wiper fluids, chains, emergency gear), fuel, keys, traffic, pollution, training children to drive.

Then add, a Home, Washer, Dryer, Refrigerator, Microwave, Mixers, Ovens, Dishwashers, plumbing, Boat, more Cars, Camper, Computers, Cell Phones, and then the Big One...Religion.

Our need for knowledge has increased because we have used it to invent. Soon, there is no escaping the worry of the morrow. We've got so much on our plate, the mind never stops turning, knowing we have so much to do and need to learn more to keep it.

We then pass this torch to our Children.

This trap has consumed a great deal of the World, and Christians are not excluded. Worry surrounds our lives, and stress and the lack of peace is clearly evident in today’s culture. I see this as the direct impact of knowing.

If innocence was still in place, the Garden would suffice.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

...Our need for knowledge has increased because we have used it to invent. Soon, there is no escaping the worry of the morrow. We've got so much on our plate, the mind never stops turning, knowing we have so much to do and need to learn more to keep it.

We then pass this torch to our Children.

This trap has consumed a great deal of the World, and Christians are not excluded. Worry surrounds our lives, and stress and the lack of peace is clearly evident in today’s culture. I see this as the direct impact of knowing.

If innocence was still in place, the Garden would suffice.

I agree that the collection of knowledge requires effort and storage, whether we’re shelving books in the den, or mentally digesting the latest philosophical exposition on why God must exist. It’s a lot of work. I suppose this is why they say “ignorance is bliss.” In my opinion, there are basically two categories of knowledge: useless and useful. The color of my neighbor’s bathroom tile is useless knowledge, to me at least. Understanding that I need nourish my body by eating food and drinking water would fall under useful.

Motivations for acquiring knowledge can vary, depending upon the individual. Some enjoy leisurely learning, others want to rule the world, and end up making it their master. I wonder if by “pure knowledge,” you are speaking of absolute truth? I must mention here that knowledge without wisdom and understanding can be just as destructive. I will quote from one of your favorite authors

Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:
So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.
Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.
When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

So, would you still prefer the blissful ignorance of Eden, with fine gold and silver under every bush…or do you agree with Solomon that wisdom and understanding is the better deal?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

agree that the collection of knowledge requires effort and storage, whether we’re shelving books in the den, or mentally digesting the latest philosophical exposition on why God must exist. It’s a lot of work. I suppose this is why they say “ignorance is bliss.” In my opinion, there are basically two categories of knowledge: useless and useful. The color of my neighbor’s bathroom tile is useless knowledge, to me at least. Understanding that I need nourish my body by eating food and drinking water would fall under useful.

I've thought of that same quote, "Ignorance is bliss". Children truly enjoy this. By knowing less, they enjoy more of the things that matter and see other human beings through a completely different lens than adults.

I guess the usefulness of knowledge depends on the person. To one, it may be useless but to another useful. I'm color blind. A colored tile of a certain color may be important to me, especially if I'm installing the tile. I can easily pick the wrong colored grout if I'm not careful.

Would you say that eating and drinking are more of an instinct (hunger leads us to eat without knowing), but eating the right things is where knowledge becomes important?

Motivations for acquiring knowledge can vary, depending upon the individual. Some enjoy leisurely learning, others want to rule the world, and end up making it their master. I wonder if by “pure knowledge,” you are speaking of absolute truth? I must mention here that knowledge without wisdom and understanding can be just as destructive. I will quote from one of your favorite authors

It is strange, the hunger some have for knowing. In school as a young boy, I literally hated history class and reading books of any kind. Today, I'm a completely different person. I wouldn't say I'm obsessed, but I really desire to know about the past. I love to dig in and "Find out".

What I mean about pure knowledge is the absolute ALL. As impure (born in sin), for us to have access to such truth, I don't believe we would even be in existence today. Look what we've done with the little we know. We are a few buttons away from total annihilation. Even Religion is in chaos with the little we know. It's just like money. The more you have, the more powerful you are. Our human spirit can only handle so much power before self destructing. If Satan, who was a heavenly being, fell by his power, what would happen to us?

My feeling is, and feel free to correct me on this, that because we are imperfect, we take Truth in the measure that we have it concerning God and turn it into a power ploy. The many denominations of the World seem to prove this. They all create their Atom Bombs. The all split Atoms. And those who don't follow their way, they will be Nuked (Go to Hell).

Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:
So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.
Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.
When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet

.

Funny you should pick my buddy, Solomon. Good choice! A man with the greatest of wisdom and knowledge. Where did it take him? What was his end?

1But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:

2Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

3And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

4For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

This was the end of a man who apparently was wiser than all.

So, would you still prefer the blissful ignorance of Eden, with fine gold and silver under every bush…or do you agree with Solomon that wisdom and understanding is the better deal?

I honestly believe, God's original intent for Man in the Garden was all he needed. This state was enough. God said it was good.

I do find it interesting that Jesus prayed in a Garden before he was led away to be crucified.

[mfblume]

He arose in a Garden, too,m and was even mistaken for the Gardener. (hint hint).