Christ As High Priest Interceding Now

mfblume · #1 08-29-2007, 09:50 PM

Another tributary from the thread AS MAN JESUS... BUT AS GOD JESUS...

I already stated much about this issue in that other thread, but I truly believe the book of Hebrews is a key book which reveals much about Christ's present intercessory priesthood, and this deserves its own thread.

Most simply knee-jerk a reaction when they hear of this, and say, "Christ is not interceding for sinners who come to God now. He did that once when He died for them and made atonement once and for all." But that is not what the book of Hebrews is saying the intercession is about, anyway! The intercession in Christ's priesthood, that IS ONGOING EVEN NOW, is not for atonement for sin. It is for empowerment for those who are believers so that they can live above sin and victoriously.

I will endeavour to prove this by quoting from Hebrews in this thread.

Quote:

Heb 7:24 KJV But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Notice the indication his priesthood is ongoing through now into the future, since His ascension. His priesthood required a continuing LIFE. WHY???

If his priesthood was in death only and is now done and over with, no more active intercession occurring, why did He requrie a continuing life in order to have an unchangeable priesthood? That would make no sense.

Hence...

Quote:

Heb 7:25 KJV Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

If atonement is the issue, which I think it is not, and atonement was the only intercessory work Christ did, whcih renders intercessory in the past alone, WHY DO WE READ HIS UNENDING LIFE IS NECESSARY FOR IT? And why do we read his unending life is associated with ever living to make intercession? When one lives to do something, that means one lives IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH something. Since everlasting life is what is required for intercession for us, NOT SINNERS, then intercession is ONGOING.

He has an unchangeable priesthood, that death cannot hinder nor affect in any way, since He never will die....

Quote:

Rom 6:9-10 KJV Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. (10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

HE LIVETH UNTO GOD.... The "eth" suffix indicates an ONGOING thing. He continues to LIVE UNTO GOD. Notice the distinction from GOD here.

This proves there remains a distinction between the WILL of the MAN Christ Jesus and His deity. LIVETH is not PAST but PRESENT AND ONGOING. It is a NOW thing.

We know this because it is an example for us wherein we find the SAME TWO blessings Christ enjoys now applied to us....

Quote:

Rom 6:11 KJV Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We can easily see that we have need of living UNTO GOD. But this states that this is so because CHRIST LIVETH UNTO GOD right now. That is not past tense. It is ONGOING.

Christ is not alive unto HIMSELF as a MAN. He is our example and living unto DEITY, as High Priest, MINISTERING TO DEITY, just as WE ARE ALIVE UNTO GOD in the LIKEWISE fashion.

In verse 11, "LIKEWISE" indicates that we experience the same thing Christ experiences. And since Christ died once to sin, we LIKEWISE are DEAD INDEED unto sin. And since Christ is alive unto God, we LIKEWISE are alive unto God. Our wills are distinct from God's will, so that demands Christ's WILL AS A MAN is distinct, but in full obedience to the will of GOD, when He is described as one who "liveth unto God". And all the while HE IS ONE PERSON!

His intercession NOW sends forth a flow of power from the Father to us at all times, so we can live life to the UTTERMOST!

mfblume · #2 08-29-2007, 10:05 PM

The priesthood of Melchisedek is superior to that of Aaron for more reasons than there being a single sacrifice of Christ. As awesome as the contrast of one sacrifice is, the priesthood issue goes even further than that.

Aaron's priesthood involved a work that could not open the holiest of all for more than a few moments one day every year. Christ's present Melchisedek priesthood has opened the holiest up for us all.

Furthermore, Melchisedek was PRIEST actively interceding for Abraham WHILE KING AT THE SAME TIME. Christ is KING on the throne NOW. And He is priest while on that throne as well. Christ was not King until the ascension. He is only Priest and King while on the throne.

Quote:

Zec 6:13 KJVR Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Hebrews also shows us that Melchisedek's order awarded Christ an UNENDING PRIESTHOOD. He ever lives to make intercession. That statement alone proves He is presently interceding. It's so plainly stated.

The entire concept of how we can come to God by Him involves the statement that He ever liveth to make intercession for us. And note that saving to the uttermost is mentioned. THAT IS MORE than simply "coming out of Egypt", spiritually. It is getting into Canaan, spiritually.

Quote:

Heb 7:25 KJVR Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

This is not merely getting saved from the world. It is SALVATION TO THE UTTERMOST. Hebrews is about OUR LIFE that CAN ENJOY the HOLIEST OF ALL. Heb 6 focuses on the entire theme of the book by saying we can enter the most holy place. And as we read Hebrews, entering the most Holy Place is actually living in such transcendent power and victory, that so many believers never experience, let alone KNOW ABOUT IT.

Note verse 25 above. The only way this makes sense is to realize that people can come to GOD -- TO THE UTTERMOST -- BY HIM NOW because HE IS ACTIVELY INTERCEDING FOR THEM NOW.

We all understand our advocate picture. Like a lawyer actively pointing to the once shed blood to appeal for anyone who trusts in the cross, JESUS ACTIVELY AND PRESENTLY STLL INTERCEDES.

Quote:

1Jo 2:1 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

He did not DIE to act as intercessor, but HE EVER LIVETH to make intercession. Death did not accomplish that. An unending LIFE does this. Don't focus on the death, here, but THE LIFE.

People WHO COME TO HIM NOW are able to be saved to the uttermost BECAUSE HE LIVES NOW AS INTERCESSOR for them. If He was only intercessor for them at his death, we would not read of Him EVER living to make intercession, and we would not read that this is the reason people who COME TO HIM NOW can be saved to the uttermost!

Saving us to the uttermost is going FAR PAST salvation from sin. It is saving us to such a degree that we overcome sin everyday of our lives! And we read at the end of Hebrews 6 how Jesus has entered for us into the holiest, past the veil, as forerunner. He is in there now, seated as King and High Priest. And when we truly believe Him for all He is there for us to experience, we have this victory over sin. And that is spiritually saying we entered with Him into the Holiest. Having total victory, so as not to turn back, as many of the Hebrews had, and others were in danger of doing, is spiritually called dwelling in the most holy place.

Quote:

Heb 6:18-20 KJV That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: (19) Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; (20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

When some claim his work on the cross and shedding of blood alone is where the intercession occurred, they actually lower Christ's priesthood to that of Aaron. His work on the earth on the cross in death was a priestly work similar to Aaron's Levitical priesthood. But the present priestly ministry beyond the veil, seated in the holiest of holies is a work foreshadowed by the Melchisedek Priesthood. It is not a ministry to purge us from sins, since that is already done. It is a ministry to lift us to absolute victory NOW.

Notice the terms associated with Melchisedek's priesthood! They are BEYOND THE VEIL terms. THEY ARE UNENDING LIFE terms, NOT DEATH terms.

Yes, Christ died, but the association with the Melchisedek priesthood is not focusing on death. BUT UNENDING LIFE.

Again, it is not a priesthood to purge us from sins, since that is done. It is to give us total victory NOW before we leave this world for glory. Aaron's stopped at dealing with sins. Melchisedek's priesthood goes beyond that to save us to the UTTERMOST in daily living! THIS uttermost situation is why Christ ever intercedes! We ARE NOT THERE YET!!!! 99% of believers are not in the UTTERMOST position of indwelling the holiest of holies, spiritually speaking. Again, this indwelling in this place is speaking of absolute victory.

Please notice this. It's not intercession to simply see shed blood remit sins. It is beyond that to intercession to COME TO THE UTTERMOST, to which we have not yet experienced in the practical sense. His intercession is not for weakly sinners, but saints who have not yet come to the place of victory in everything. THAT is the context of why He intercedes. Had it been a context of association with sins, Aaron's did that. But Mel's DOES far more!

READ OF MEL'S MEETING WITH ABRAHAM and you can see the reason for intercession NOW!!!

#3 08-29-2007, 10:12 PM

I am under the impression that the cross is sufficient by which I HAVE ALREADY overcome the world by abiding in him.

I am not too keen on "Kingdom Now" theology.

mfblume · #4 08-29-2007, 10:42 PM

We all are overcomers, but in position. However, when it comes to PRACTICAL living, the issue is quite another story. This is what the intercession is for.

I see nothing about KINGDOM NOW in this in any form.

SDG · #5 08-30-2007, 12:37 AM

It's almost funny to hear two 3 steppers argue whether His death and resurrection are enough.

SDG · #6 08-30-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:Heb 7:25 KJVR Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

This is not merely getting saved from the world. It is SALVATION TO THE UTTERMOST. Hebrews is about OUR LIFE that CAN ENJOY the HOLIEST OF ALL. Heb 6 focuses on the entire theme of the book by saying we can enter the most holy place. And as we read Hebrews, entering the most Holy Place is actually living in such transcendent power and victory, that so many believers never experience, let alone KNOW ABOUT IT.

Note verse 25 above. The only way this makes sense is to realize that people can come to GOD -- TO THE UTTERMOST -- BY HIM NOW because HE IS ACTIVELY INTERCEDING FOR THEM NOW.

We all understand our advocate picture. Like a lawyer actively pointing to the once shed blood to appeal for anyone who trusts in the cross, JESUS ACTIVELY AND PRESENTLY STLL INTERCEDES.

Quote:1Jo 2:1 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
He did not DIE to act as intercessor, but HE EVER LIVETH to make intercession. Death did not accomplish that. An unending LIFE does this. Don't focus on the death, here, but THE LIFE.

People WHO COME TO HIM NOW are able to be saved to the uttermost BECAUSE HE LIVES NOW AS INTERCESSOR for them. If He was only intercessor for them at his death, we would not read of Him EVER living to make intercession, and we would not read that this is the reason people who COME TO HIM NOW can be saved to the uttermost!

Saving us to the uttermost is going FAR PAST salvation from sin. It is saving us to such a degree that we overcome sin everyday of our lives! And we read at the end of Hebrews 6 how Jesus has entered for us into the holiest, past the veil, as forerunner. He is in there now, seated as King and High Priest. And when we truly believe Him for all He is there for us to experience, we have this victory over sin. And that is spiritually saying we entered with Him into the Holiest. Having total victory, so as not to turn back, as many of the Hebrews had, and others were in danger of doing, is spiritually called dwelling in the most holy place.

I think I understand the jist of what Elder Blume is trying to say but I'm still not sure if I can accept it all as he has presented it... Elder, you seem to over-emphasizing the term "save them the uttermost" in your exegesis ... as if it is the center point of your argument.

In the KJV, we find this translation "uttermost" ... but what does it really mean? Are we adding to it's original meaning? Are we looking at the context of this verse as it relates to the original thought expressed by the writer? This does not negate the focus of your argument, perhaps but:

The NAS translates this verse as:

Therefore He is able also to save forever * those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

The Greek reads:

oqen kai swzein (5721) eiv to pantelev dunatai (5736) touv proserxomenouv (5740) di' autou tw qew, pantote zwn (5723) eiv to entugxanein (5721) uper autwn.

Before I bring your attention to the phrase highlighted in the verse 25...

In context, verses 23 states that the former priests did not continue forever but that they died. Verse 24 says Jesus, on the other hand, continues forever and holds his priesthood forever ... clearly because of His resurrection.

with this said the writer then states in verse 25 because He lives now he can forever and completely intercede for us that draw nigh to God:

oqen kai swzein (5721) eiv to pantelev dunatai

THEREFORE ABLE TO SAVE FOREVER [COMPLETELY]

ogen, therefore .... shows this verse is consequent to his previous statements.

dunatai, or dunamis ... shows he is able ... or has the power to

eiv ... is eis ... which here as in Acts 2:38 is to ... but, obviously not in a causal form.

swzein ... is soso ... meaning to save

pantalev, or pantales ... means completely, perfectly or utterly.

Strongs 3838

all complete, perfect

completely, perfectly, utterly

I believe that the writer is stating He completely, perfectly saves us because he, the perfect Lamb, lives always as mediator between God and us.

This may be in line w/ what you have stated ... I just wanted to make sure we are not adding to what uttermost means here.

Clearly, the salvation the writer speaks of here deals w/ our sins past, present and future. We need His death as we need His resurrection BOTH.

SDG · #7 08-30-2007, 01:56 AM

The writer in Hebrews tells us that His position as high priest and sacrificial Lamb... far exceeds the role of the Levitical priests:

Hebrews 8

6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

#8 08-30-2007, 09:13 AM

I have always understood this topic to mean that Jesus took his blood, and once and for all eternity offered it on the mercy seat in heaven. Not that he continues to do so, or that he lays prostrate praying for us 24/7, but that the offering stretches forth to cover all of time. The intercession being made is that offering that continues to be there available for all who would come, hence His Priesthood continues through his one time offering.