Romans 8:9 the Acid Test for Status before God?

Pastor Keith · #1 10-13-2011, 10:23 AM

Is Romans 8:9 the Acid Test for Status before God?

We are all familiar with Romans 8:9
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

My argument is that we use it wrongly, placed in context; it should not be used in the context of determining if someone is right with God or justification. But rather should be used rightly for the argument of sanctification.

Romans 1-8 has 3 main divisions, it reveals what Paul preached regarding the Gospel and Salvation.
• The need for salvation (the wrath of God and the sinfulness of man)
• The Beginning of Salvation (justification)
• The Continuation of Salvation (sanctification)

Therefore Romans 8:9 falls into the sanctification division.
It is not a reference to a believer’s status before God, but a reference to the state in God.

His argument in Romans 7-8, is that a believer has a choice that non-believers don’t, to live in the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

Because this was his thesis in these 2 chapters, he slips in a scripture that took for granted that all believers would have the Spirit.

Again, that is the norm for initiation (all Believers should have the Spirit) but if we are to be true to context, Romans 8:9 has little to do with initial salvation, but deals with sanctification.

In other words, you may have believed in Jesus, but without the power of the Spirit, you will live a defeated life and really won’t belong to him.

Also the Greek in the scripture speaks of continuity or present reality.

Amanah · #2 10-13-2011, 10:28 AM

So are you saying that at repentance a person is justified "saved,"
but in order to continued to be "saved" we must be led by the Spirit, ie, Sanctified?

Pastor Keith · #3 10-13-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

So are you saying that at repentance a person is justified "saved,"
but in order to continued to be "saved" we must be led by the Spirit, ie, Sanctified?

Justification starts the salvation process, and yes in order to stay saved they need the Spirit to be one of His!

Amanah · #4 10-13-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Justification starts the salvation process, and yes in order to stay saved they need the Spirit to be one of His!

Isn't being led by the Spirit something one chooses day by day. Does this make salvation a step by step process. I mean each step you take then would be either on the path or off of it.

Pastor Keith · #5 10-13-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

Isn't being led by the Spirit something one chooses day by day. Does this make salvation a step by step process. I mean each step you take then would be either on the path or off of it.

Salvation has many components, Justification, Union with Christ, Regeneration, Sanctification, Glorification.

All are essential, and to lack any is to be less than saved!

But the Spirit is deliverer/messenger of each component. The Spirit is the seal and the proof of Justification.

That is why the Apostles felt such a need to ask each Believer or Group they encountered, have your received the Spirit since you believed!

Amanah · #6 10-13-2011, 10:48 AM

there are so many different beliefs represented on these boards, can you give me a frame of reference for your beliefs (aside from the Bible)

Amanah · #7 10-13-2011, 10:51 AM

Justification, Justified by faith in Jesus, at repentance?
Union with Christ, happens when?
Regeneration, happens when?
Sanctification, being led of the Spirit
Glorification, when we get a heavenly body?

Pastor Keith · #8 10-13-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

there are so many different beliefs represented on these boards, can you give me a frame of reference for your beliefs (aside from the Bible)

The Bible, Acts, Romans!

I am not afraid of Romans either.
A Simple Outline of Romans
Chapters 1-3 Show the overwhelming sinfulness of both Jews and Gentiles
Chapters 4-5 Reveal that Faith in Jesus takes care of the Sin Problem (Repentance/Faith)
Chapter 6 Union with Christ (Water Baptism)
Chapter 7 The inability of the law to overcome sin (Spirit is Needed)
Chapter 8 The walk of the Spirit, through the Spirit, sin can be conquered (Sanctification)

Pastor Keith · #9 10-13-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

Justification, Justified by faith in Jesus, at repentance?
Union with Christ, happens when?
Regeneration, happens when?
Sanctification, being led of the Spirit
Glorification, when we get a heavenly body?

Union with Christ-->Baptism Romans 6
Regeneration happens with the Birth of the Spirit (some see that in Romans 6, much more pronounced in Romans 8)

Amanah · #10 10-13-2011, 11:08 AM

do you baptize in Jesus name?
do you teach that speaking in tongues is the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit?