The Lost Message of The Gospel

[Rico]

Ro 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2co 1:5-7 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Php 1:29-30 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

1pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;




Can someone please explain to me why stuff like this isn't preached much? I can count on one hand the number of times I have heard preaching on suffering. It seems that an emphasis was placed on the fact that anyone who really wants to know Jesus would have to get to know Him through the process of suffering.

Suffering what, persecution? Can any of us really say we know what it means to be persecuted for the sake of the Gospel? (Speaking to us from the USA and Canada)

Suffering what, the trial of our faith? When is the last time something came along that really tried to steal your faith?

Suffering what, the struggle against sin? We're under grace. What struggle against sin?

I'm not criticizing. I am merely asking the question, "What happened to the lost message of the Gospel?? When I read scriptures like the ones I just posted, I have to ask myself, "Where has the suffering gone?"

I understand there needs to be balance, and am not advocating that we should be miserable, constantly going through this test or that trial. It just seems that, in the overwhelming task of helping people to feel good about themselves, this aspect of living for God has gotten lost.

I have to be honest, I don't know Jesus in the fellowship of His suffering. I can't say the sufferings of Christ abound in me. I can't say I partake in His sufferings. I can't say I even know what these things mean. I want to know God. I really want to know Him.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Rico

Ro 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2co 1:5-7 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Php 1:29-30 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

1pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;




Can someone please explain to me why stuff like this isn't preached much? I can count on one hand the number of times I have heard preaching on suffering. It seems that an emphasis was placed on the fact that anyone who really wants to know Jesus would have to get to know Him through the process of suffering.

Suffering what, persecution? Can any of us really say we know what it means to be persecuted for the sake of the Gospel? (Speaking to us from the USA and Canada)

Suffering what, the trial of our faith? When is the last time something came along that really tried to steal your faith?

Suffering what, the struggle against sin? We're under grace. What struggle against sin?

I'm not criticizing. I am merely asking the question, "What happened to the lost message of the Gospel?? When I read scriptures like the ones I just posted, I have to ask myself, "Where has the suffering gone?"

I understand there needs to be balance, and am not advocating that we should be miserable, constantly going through this test or that trial. It just seems that, in the overwhelming task of helping people to feel good about themselves, this aspect of living for God has gotten lost.

I have to be honest, I don't know Jesus in the fellowship of His suffering. I can't say the sufferings of Christ abound in me. I can't say I partake in His sufferings. I can't say I even know what these things mean. I want to know God. I really want to know Him.

Very good post.

I believe the believers in China and many other parts of the globe can relate to the scriptures, just as the believers in Paul's day completely understood what he was speaking of, because they were living it under the heel of Roman perscution.

We have the challenge of living for and growing in Christ in a different context, a context of (for the most part) prosperity and affluence. Suffering just happened to the their context, it is not ours in America today. (again for the most part)

This fact does not make us less Christian, or less spiritual in its self. I am sure some believers in the context of suffering became bitter and cynical. We are called to live out the Christian life in the context in which we are planted. In our case the verses presented generally are good for understanding, but do not fit our current context.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Very good post.

I believe the believers in China and many other parts of the globe can relate to the scriptures, just as the believers in Paul's day completely understood what he was speaking of, because they were living it under the heel of Roman perscution.

We have the challenge of living for and growing in Christ in a different context, a context of (for the most part) prosperity and affluence. Suffering just happened to the their context, it is not ours in America today. (again for the most part)

This fact does not make us less Christian, or less spiritual in its self. I am sure some believers in the context of suffering became bitter and cynical. We are called to live out the Christian life in the context in which we are planted. In our case the verses presented generally are good for understanding, but do not fit our current context.

This is the thing, though, Crakjak. I am not so sure that the suffering the Bible talks about is exclusive to being persecuted by a government, or at the hands of an economic system, etc., although those can be legitimate sources of suffering for a Christian. My thinking is the true suffering happens on a spiritual level, brought about through denying our flesh.

Fasting would be a good example. I've fasted in the past. I went a whole week once. I saw things in the Sprirt during that week I've never seen before. I have since then wondered what kind of suffering a 40 day fast would bring. Jesus' ministry was launched on the heels of a 40 day fast. See what I am getting at? I don't have that in common with Jesus.

Spiritual warfare would be another example. I don't know the first thing about it. Never really experienced it on a meaningful level. I believe Jesus fought the premier spiritual battle over going to the cross. It was the ultimate act of obedience. I'm not saying I think I need to get crucified to get close to Christ, ok? I am just saying that I have very little experience fighting spiritual battles.

These are just a couple of examples to help explain where my thinking is on all this.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Rico

Ro 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2co 1:5-7 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Php 1:29-30 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

1pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;




Can someone please explain to me why stuff like this isn't preached much? I can count on one hand the number of times I have heard preaching on suffering. It seems that an emphasis was placed on the fact that anyone who really wants to know Jesus would have to get to know Him through the process of suffering.

Suffering what, persecution? Can any of us really say we know what it means to be persecuted for the sake of the Gospel? (Speaking to us from the USA and Canada)

Suffering what, the trial of our faith? When is the last time something came along that really tried to steal your faith?

Suffering what, the struggle against sin? We're under grace. What struggle against sin?

I'm not criticizing. I am merely asking the question, "What happened to the lost message of the Gospel?? When I read scriptures like the ones I just posted, I have to ask myself, "Where has the suffering gone?"

I understand there needs to be balance, and am not advocating that we should be miserable, constantly going through this test or that trial. It just seems that, in the overwhelming task of helping people to feel good about themselves, this aspect of living for God has gotten lost.

I have to be honest, I don't know Jesus in the fellowship of His suffering. I can't say the sufferings of Christ abound in me. I can't say I partake in His sufferings. I can't say I even know what these things mean. I want to know God. I really want to know Him.

Bro. Rico,

A good place to start knowing Him is to find that secret place alone

with Jesus. He spent much time up there in that mountain, praying to

the Father. He was praying for His disciples. He prayed in John 17 and

asked that they would be one as He and the Father (Spirit) were one.

It touches me sometimes very early in the morning when I awake early

and I think, Lord Jesus, while it was yet a good while before dawn, you

would go up on the Mount of Olives and pray. He were our example.

Bro. Rico, if you really want to know Him, do what He did and learn

His words. He only did and said what the Father told Him. Spending

time alone with the Father will make us One with Him and His Son.

The Father is in us also. That is why Jesus told His disciples to say,

"Our Father, which art in heaven......." Deity (Spirit) in humanity.

Listen to the Spirit and do what He tells us to do and say. They

that are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God!

How did you get to know your wife before you married her. I have

a feeling you spent lots of time with her. That is the way to develope

an intimate relationship with someone. That's the way to get to KNOW

Him! Alone!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. Rico,

A good place to start knowing Him is to find that secret place alone

with Jesus. He spent much time up there in that mountain, praying to

the Father. He was praying for His disciples. He prayed in John 17 and

asked that they would be one as He and the Father (Spirit) were one.

It touches me sometimes very early in the morning when I awake early

and I think, Lord Jesus, while it was yet a good while before dawn, you

would go up on the Mount of Olives and pray. He were our example.

Bro. Rico, if you really want to know Him, do what He did and learn

His words. He only did and said what the Father told Him. Spending

time alone with the Father will make us One with Him and His Son.

The Father is in us also. That is why Jesus told His disciples to say,

"Our Father, which art in heaven......." Deity (Spirit) in humanity.

Listen to the Spirit and do what He tells us to do and say. They

that are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God!

How did you get to know your wife before you married her. I have

a feeling you spent lots of time with her. That is the way to develope

an intimate relationship with someone. That's the way to get to KNOW

Him! Alone!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

Good advice, Sister. Something I have incorporated into my prayer life is asking God, "What can I do for you today? What can I do to further your Kingdom today?" The Bible is right when it says, "Ye have not because ye ask not." We don't have anything to do for God because we don't ask Him what we can do for Him.

[Sam]

Some of us are having our faith tried when we continue to suffer physically, emotionally, and mentally and it appears that God does not answer the way it seems He promises in His Word. And others around ask sarcastically, "Where is your God now, and why doesn't He keep His Word?"

[Rico]

Here is another scripture I found in Hebrews.


Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


This seems to me to be saying that God used suffering to make Jesus perfect.

[Sam]

The human fleshly part in me says, "Why, Lord?" when I continue to suffer and it seems God is absent, silent, uncaring, and forgetful. Then the spirit part says by faith, "I trust you, Father."

[JamDat]

Originally Posted by Rico

Ro 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2co 1:5-7 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Php 1:29-30 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

1pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;




Can someone please explain to me why stuff like this isn't preached much? I can count on one hand the number of times I have heard preaching on suffering. It seems that an emphasis was placed on the fact that anyone who really wants to know Jesus would have to get to know Him through the process of suffering.

Suffering what, persecution? Can any of us really say we know what it means to be persecuted for the sake of the Gospel? (Speaking to us from the USA and Canada)

Suffering what, the trial of our faith? When is the last time something came along that really tried to steal your faith?

Suffering what, the struggle against sin? We're under grace. What struggle against sin?

I'm not criticizing. I am merely asking the question, "What happened to the lost message of the Gospel?? When I read scriptures like the ones I just posted, I have to ask myself, "Where has the suffering gone?"

I understand there needs to be balance, and am not advocating that we should be miserable, constantly going through this test or that trial. It just seems that, in the overwhelming task of helping people to feel good about themselves, this aspect of living for God has gotten lost.

I have to be honest, I don't know Jesus in the fellowship of His suffering. I can't say the sufferings of Christ abound in me. I can't say I partake in His sufferings. I can't say I even know what these things mean. I want to know God. I really want to know Him.

In other countries they may try to steal faith by death. Here though they try to steal our faith by our minds. We may be under grace, but if we don't fight the good fight we lose. If we don't finish the race we lose.

In other countries they may have to die for their faith. Here we must live for our faith or we lose. I think in some aspects it may be harder to LIVE here then to die there.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Rico

This is the thing, though, Crakjak. I am not so sure that the suffering the Bible talks about is exclusive to being persecuted by a government, or at the hands of an economic system, etc., although those can be legitimate sources of suffering for a Christian. My thinking is the true suffering happens on a spiritual level, brought about through denying our flesh.

Fasting would be a good example. I've fasted in the past. I went a whole week once. I saw things in the Sprirt during that week I've never seen before. I have since then wondered what kind of suffering a 40 day fast would bring. Jesus' ministry was launched on the heels of a 40 day fast. See what I am getting at? I don't have that in common with Jesus.

Spiritual warfare would be another example. I don't know the first thing about it. Never really experienced it on a meaningful level. I believe Jesus fought the premier spiritual battle over going to the cross. It was the ultimate act of obedience. I'm not saying I think I need to get crucified to get close to Christ, ok? I am just saying that I have very little experience fighting spiritual battles.

These are just a couple of examples to help explain where my thinking is on all this.

I can certainly see your point, and I do believe that all believer do experience different kinds of suffering. I observe folks with no money that find a place of peace and contentment, then I also observe folks with no money problems and they suffer in other areas of the lives. So life itself has a measure of suffering no matter our circumstances.

Our oldest son, now 36 years old, experienced sever brain damage from illness at 14 months old. I suppose we would be considered to have suffered though the lifelong care for him. However, we have grown and the very thing that has been our greatest challenge has become our greatest opportunity to share the gospel and to allow our Lord to be present in our areas of influence. The Lord has used these circumstances for His purposes, my wife is the director of a growing day program for special needs adult, who are out of school and otherwise would be couch potatoes with no place to go and nothing to do. We now serve fifteen specials adults, as good hearted folks have seen the ministry happening, they have volunteered in the program, given more than a half million dollars for our building and equipment.

Suffering must not get us down, rather it must get us up and going. "Lord, what am I to do with this broken heart, or broken health, or poverty, I am defined by my faith not my circumstances."

Bottom line: "What the enemy tries to use for defeat and reproach the Lord uses to declare His greatness!"