My visit to a UPC Church~Shocking Details~

[Cookin-with-Stoneking]

This last week I had the luxury to visit a local UPC church in the location where I was away on travel. As a minister who has been out of and away from the org. for sometime I thought it would be interesting to visit my family of origin.

This was a very large church with a pastor/leader that is in official positions within the organization and district.

The building was very nice and very up to date with its decorations. The very young greeter seemed shocked to see me, when I walked in.

The preservice prayer was led by a lively, passion filled youth leader. Brought back precious memories of when I was involved in the work.

I sat down where I would be noticed to see the response of the folks, only one sister walked up introduced herself to me and asked me my name.

About 150-200 multi-cultural people gathered in the large auditorium for service. Good worship and lively singing. What impresses me about UPC people they love God; this continues to be my initial feeling and observation vs. other groups and movements. UPC people really love God, it shows and there is a increase in the presence of God in the midst because of this.

I think there is an imbalance in focus/beliefs about standards and outward issues, but I think the result of a disciplined obedient lifestyle is love for God. I still believe we should live disciplined lives not to earn, or maintain salvation but simply out of love and grateful lives.

As the service went on, various saints came over and greeted me and their concern was genuine.

An usher handed me a visitor card and asked me to fill it out. When I did, I he rushed it up to the pastor on the platform when I marked my vocation as a Pastor/Minister.

A minister on staff was given the task of preaching the midweek service. He was passionate and sincere, but all over the map as far as organization of his message, he initially talked about wanting to get down where we were living but in my mind failed to achieve that task. Most of his message was directed at the value and reason God places a pastor in your life and how we need to take their role and voice serious in our lives. His text in Romans didn't really match too much of what he said. He through in some issues about God helping us through difficult times, we don't need to pull back.

Being back in that setting helped me to realize, I myself need a fresh set of eyes to give me feedback about things I get used to that often need to be addressed from a visitors standpoint.

OP/UPS folks have a unique culture and I think that there is not a real bridge for people outside of it to try it/understand it/partake of it without resisting it because it is so shocking. i.e. Culture=Jesus

Akin to pushing someone into the deep end of a pool without allowing them to test the water and learn to swim.

My conclusions of the visit:

UPC people love God

I appreciate the wonderful things about my heritage, I miss the structure and discipline and even the willingness/obedience to follow leadership that is missing in other movements and groups

It is a unique cultural movement that often outsiders are overwhelmed and have a hard time bridging. We interpret for other language groups, I think they need to interpret and speak the language of the culture where they can without compromising their convictions (I guess that to be the real issue of why they don't build a bridge)

I was impressed by this church's reputation for ministry and its various ethnic outreaches and their impact in the community.

The pastor/district official was very friendly, when I told him who I was and my background he warmed to me immediately and gave him his card and offered to buy me lunch, I appreciate this kindness.

By the way I wasn't shocked by the visit, just I wanted a title to draw attention to my thread.

[Blubayou]

Much of what you say is insightful and valid and I agree with it. I do think there are churches that do a good job of bridging the cultural gap by breaking up into smaller home groups that meet during the week or providing small group sessions at the church. One thing have come to appreciate about the church I now attend is there is no pressure from the pulpit to " line up" to outward standards. This does not mean that the minister does not occasionally mention outward standards, because he does, but they are not the focus of his ministry or his sermons. I go to a church were there are members at all levels of growth and they are accepted, loved and in many cases used. I realize that this church is probably in the minority among churches, I am just pointing out that they are out there.
The one thing I found distressing was that when they found out you were a minister or who you were, the attitude changed toward you. It is probably just human to do this, but I think were are expected to be more like Christ in our interactions with strangers whatever our station or family background.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

The one thing I found distressing was that when they found out you were a minister or who you were, the attitude changed toward you. It is probably just human to do this, but I think were are expected to be more like Christ in our interactions with strangers whatever our station or family background.

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditional in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditinal in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

Yes, this is traditional in Pentecostal churches, but I agree with Blubyou. I personally feel leadership in the UPC is overrated and they are lifted up above the saints..that's just my personal opinion from experience.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditional in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

TRFrance, we've had non-Pentecostal ministers/leaders stop by our church and the pastor has asked them to say a word or give a testimony. I think it just shows respect.

I'm glad someone gave a good "review" of a UPC church. We don't see a lot of that on this forum anymore.

[Blubayou]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I dont think that should be something to get distressed over.
It is traditional in Pentecostal churches that we give special honor/recognition to visiting pastors and preachers, often by acknowledging them from the platform and/or asking them to give a quick greeting or word of testimony to the congregation.

There is New Testament basis for giving special honor to ministers of he gospel. Nothing bad about that.

I am all for giving honor to whom honor is due- and I respect and honor the ministry- I also feel we should treat our visitors as honored guests no matter their station in life. There is a New Testament basis for this, also.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

I am all for giving honor to whom honor is due- and I respect and honor the ministry- I also feel we should treat our visitors as honored guests no matter their station in life. There is a New Testament basis for this, also.

No argument there.

Thing is, thought, he didn't say he wasn't treated as an honored guest before they knew he was a minister. ... just that they made a point to quickly notify the pastor on the platform, once they saw that he was a minister. (I think Paul said something about ministers of the Word being worthy of "double honor" 1 Tim 5:17)

I thought that was a very positive and courteous gesture, befitting a minister of the Word. I didnt find it distressing at all

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

I am all for giving honor to whom honor is due- and I respect and honor the ministry- I also feel we should treat our visitors as honored guests no matter their station in life. There is a New Testament basis for this, also.

I agree with giving respect to those in the ministry. I also think that asking them to give a short word of testimony is totally appropriate. What I find inappropriate is the fact that AFTER they knew he was a minister, they offered to buy him lunch. Do they offer to buy lunch for all their visitors?

[Cindy]

Sounds like you had a warm welcome and great experience.

[bkstokes]

I think you were as objective as possible in your review. I also believe that the "standards" have the ability to create such a cultural gap that it makes it hard for the UPCI churches to relate to their communities.