Bernards Apostolic Identity Article in Feb PH...

[Justin]

I glanced through it last week and I don't remember seeing John 13:35; "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm at work and do not have the copy with me, can someone verifiy if DB even mentioned this verse? He talks about Holiness Inward and Outward, but that's all I can remember.

Thanks.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Justin

I glanced through it last week and I don't remember seeing John 13:35; "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm at work and do not have the copy with me, can someone verifiy if DB even mentioned this verse? He talks about Holiness Inward and Outward, but that's all I can remember.

Thanks.

If you have a copy of the the Apostolic Life, 2006 ... the article comes directly out of the introduction of the book.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by DAII

If you have a copy of the the Apostolic Life, 2006 ... the article comes directly out of the introduction of the book.

That's at home too.

[DAII]

I guess DKB would argue that his push for Apostolic Unity would cover the verse you quoted.

Although that would exclude the world .... wouldn't it?

[ManOfWord]

Apostolic Identity, IMO, means Apostolic "isolation," "disconnection," "irrelevancy," "arrogance" etc.

The "By this......" is Jesus Gold Standard for His disciples. Until this happens, the UPCI will be stuck in a closet boasting about numbers gained instead of lost. The org is NOT growing even amidst all their shouting and back patting etc. Honestly, I would love to see God do a great work, but not for the sake of a doctrine or an identity. But for the sake of the lost and His glory.

If people get Jesus, everything will be OK. If all they get is a doctrine and an identity, all they did was get converted not saved! Think about that!!!!

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Apostolic Identity, IMO, means Apostolic "isolation," "disconnection," "irrelevancy," "arrogance" etc.

The "By this......" is Jesus Gold Standard for His disciples. Until this happens, the UPCI will be stuck in a closet boasting about numbers gained instead of lost. The org is NOT growing even amidst all their shouting and back patting etc. Honestly, I would love to see God do a great work, but not for the sake of a doctrine or an identity. But for the sake of the lost and His glory.

If people get Jesus, everything will be OK. If all they get is a doctrine and an identity, all they did was get converted not saved! Think about that!!!!

Great Post!

[John Atkinson]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Apostolic Identity, IMO, means Apostolic "isolation," "disconnection," "irrelevancy," "arrogance" etc.

The "By this......" is Jesus Gold Standard for His disciples. Until this happens, the UPCI will be stuck in a closet boasting about numbers gained instead of lost. The org is NOT growing even amidst all their shouting and back patting etc. Honestly, I would love to see God do a great work, but not for the sake of a doctrine or an identity. But for the sake of the lost and His glory.

If people get Jesus, everything will be OK. If all they get is a doctrine and an identity, all they did was get converted not saved! Think about that!!!!

Good post, there is so very little in the New Testament about outward appearance, and much of that is misinterpreted by the identity folks, yet most of it, Gospels and Epistles back up and reinforce the "The Golden Standard" that gets under-emphasized or ignored altogether.

I hope and pray for a move of God and revival within the UPCI.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Apostolic Identity, IMO, means Apostolic "isolation," "disconnection," "irrelevancy," "arrogance" etc.
The "By this......" is Jesus Gold Standard for His disciples. Until this happens, the UPCI will be stuck in a closet boasting about numbers gained instead of lost. The org is NOT growing even amidst all their shouting and back patting etc. Honestly, I would love to see God do a great work, but not for the sake of a doctrine or an identity. But for the sake of the lost and His glory.

If people get Jesus, everything will be OK. If all they get is a doctrine and an identity, all they did was get converted not saved! Think about that!!!!

Could be - but it need not be that way. I know it has not had that effect in my own family - while I don't agree with some points, I would be hard pressed to say any negative aspects outweighed the positives. Many Christians, reject portions of modern culture and lifestyle, yet have huge impact in their circle of influence.

I do think conservatives (UPC included) need to adjust their perception of other Christians - those who don't tow their own expression in Christian ID. Yeah..., that really is smoke drifting from those other chimneys - not just steam.

About groweth, the UPC often fails to get the numbers right at the back door, hence the numbers are tweaked. Nevertheless, they are growing or maintaining not shrinking as are the majority of Evangelicals and Protestant denominations.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Could be - but it need not be that way. I know it has not had that effect in my own family - while I don't agree with some points, I would be hard pressed to say any negative aspects outweighed the positives. Many Christians, reject portions of modern culture and lifestyle, yet have huge impact in their circle of influence.

I do think conservatives (UPC included) need to adjust their perception of other Christians - those who don't tow their own expression in Christian ID. Yeah..., that really is smoke drifting from those other chimneys - not just steam.

About growth, the UPC often fails to get the numbers right at the back door, hence the numbers are tweaked. Nevertheless, they are growing or maintaining not shrinking as are the majority of Evangelicals and Protestant denominations.

[Justin]

Or as one poster on my Facebook status put it... "John 13:35 talks about discipleship, not apostleship" So I guess John 13:35 doesn't apply to "Apostolcs"