Christian Life Center Stockton Question

[CC1]

If anybody reading this attends or has close ties to Christian Life Center Stockton, I have some questions.

I was watching CLC's webcast this morning and noticed from the limited view of the medium shot camera that the auditorium had a lot of empty seats.

I know that they built a huge auditorium seating around 5,000 a few years ago so you could have a lot of people in it and it still be half empty. Here are my questions;

1. Does anybody have actual knowledge (not guessing) of what Sunday attendance is at CLC?

2. Is the size of the Sunday morning service affected by a lot of people being outside of the sanctuary in Sunday School, etc?

3. Is the Sunday night congregation size bigger than the Sunday morning one in the Sanctuary? Any idea how many in attendance on a typical Sunday night?

4. Has CLC experienced growth, maintained the same size, or shrunk in the last 5 years? The last 10 years?

5. Are there other UPC and exUPC churches in the area? If so have they affected CLC attendance?

EDIT: I just did a search of AFF and found a posting from Sweet Pea I think from 2009 saying that Lifesong Church in Stockton was originally a spin off / daughter work of CLC and went "charismatic" in the early 2000's. Additionally I believe Mark Segraves, former CLC instructor and son of Daniel Segraves, is the Asst. Pastor there. Has Lifesong affected the size of CLC?

[CC1]

As a follow up to explain my inquiry above I was raised UPC and spent about the first half of my life in the UPC. For that reason I have an ingrained interest in the organization.

That interest includes it's beliefs, culture, success / failure, trends, and individual churches and prominent personalities I know or know of.

I didn't want to overwhelm with questions about a lot of different UPC churches at once but one of the things I am curious about is growth among the churches traditionally considered the largest in the UPC vs. other UPC churches that may be outperforming them now in growth.

I consider the churches traditionally thought of a the UPC's largest and most successful as;

1. Christian Life Center - Stockton CA
2. The Pentecostals of Alexandria
3. Life Tabernacle - Houston, TX
4. Whatever C.L. Dee's church in Houston is called now and whoever the pastor now is
5. Calvary Tabernacle - Indianapolis
6. FPC - Jackson, MS (not in the last 10 or 15 years but in 70's - 80's ran over 1,000)

What is the current attendance of these churches?
Does that number reflect growth in the last five to ten years, stagnant attendance, or shrinkage?

What churches not listed now are as large as these in the UPC?

[houston]

Life Tabernacle is no longer UPC and is now known as Life Church.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by houston

Life Tabernacle is no longer UPC and is now known as Life Church.

Yup. I knew that and forgot to mention it. I am still interested in it's history the last 10 years or so as far as growth, shrinkage, etc.

[Sean]

Lifesong, is a church that is receiving folks from CLC steadily that do not want ANY standards preached at them. We have friends and family there. They trash talk CLC members whenever they get a chance. They win disgruntled pentecostals this way. They are as brutal, or even more brutal than their conservative brethren. They dont insist on Jesus name baptism, several have told me. I refuse to attend there....I dont want my hottie wife in pants! I wont even say any more about the junk that spews out of there.


We dont attend anywhere for now, but lifesong is the LAST place I would go around here.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Sean

Lifesong, is a church that is receiving folks from CLC steadily that do not want ANY standards preached at them. We have friends and family there. They trash talk CLC members whenever they get a chance. They win disgruntled pentecostals this way. They are as brutal, or even more brutal than their conservative brethren. They dont insist on Jesus name baptism, several have told me. I refuse to attend there....I dont want my hottie wife in pants! I wont even say any more about the junk that spews out of there.


We dont attend anywhere for now, but lifesong is the LAST place I would go around here.

Wow! Your post doesn't sound biased at all. I have been to their church website earlier today and checked out their doctrinal statement, etc so have a pretty good idea where they stand.

However you will forgive me if I am a bit skeptical about how bad you say they are towards CLC and CLC members. As one who went "charismatic" a few decades ago I know what was said about my family and the exUPC church we were attending. A lot of misconceptions and outright fabrications.
Not saying this has to be the case here but i am very leery when someone makes the kind of strong statements you have made.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by CC1

Wow! Your post doesn't sound biased at all. I have been to their church website earlier today and checked out their doctrinal statement, etc so have a pretty good idea where they stand.

However you will forgive me if I am a bit skeptical about how bad you say they are towards CLC and CLC members. As one who went "charismatic" a few decades ago I know what was said about my family and the exUPC church we were attending. A lot of misconceptions and outright fabrications.
Not saying this has to be the case here but i am very leery when someone makes the kind of strong statements you have made.

My church is fairly moderate UPC...

I heard stories about how someone at a UC Oneness church heard my Pastor's son wore an ear ring. Of course it was a total lie.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by CC1

Wow! Your post doesn't sound biased at all. I have been to their church website earlier today and checked out their doctrinal statement, etc so have a pretty good idea where they stand.

However you will forgive me if I am a bit skeptical about how bad you say they are towards CLC and CLC members. As one who went "charismatic" a few decades ago I know what was said about my family and the exUPC church we were attending. A lot of misconceptions and outright fabrications.
Not saying this has to be the case here but i am very leery when someone makes the kind of strong statements you have made.

Well, we have at least 50 friends or family members that attend Lifesong. Nearly every one of them cant help but to "trash" or show disdain towards CLC. They get on facebook and attack them, when I see them, they within minutes start attacking CLC. My wifes friends give her an earful every time they hang out also. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. They think somehow, that dropping standards is equated with "love". To me, its "lust".


Because we dont attend CLC, we take a neutral look and understand what is happening. I think if a person wants to leave, just gracefully leave and dont make waves when you go. If a person wants to vent, they can get on AFF....LOL

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Sean

Lifesong, is a church that is receiving folks from CLC steadily that do not want ANY standards preached at them. We have friends and family there. They trash talk CLC members whenever they get a chance. They win disgruntled pentecostals this way. They are as brutal, or even more brutal than their conservative brethren. They dont insist on Jesus name baptism, several have told me. I refuse to attend there....I dont want my hottie wife in pants! I wont even say any more about the junk that spews out of there.


We dont attend anywhere for now, but lifesong is the LAST place I would go around here.

Sean, you don't fellowship with God's people in worship and the word but you don't want your wife to wear pants????

Do you see how crazy this sounds? The body of Christ was designed by God to be in close fellowship with each other...learning how to love and care for each other and a woman wearing pants is a priority?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sean, you don't fellowship with God's people in worship and the word but you don't want your wife to wear pants????

Do you see how crazy this sounds? The body of Christ was designed by God to be in close fellowship with each other...learning how to love and care for each other and a woman wearing pants is a priority?

We are on a sabbatical, because I am too opinionated and I dont want to wreck somebodies faith in their pastor. It is a Holy Ghost thing. It is not forever.

We have our own God given standards, that we keep, church or not. We get gobs of fellowship (with both church groups), but we expose the disdain to those of either church if we hear it. Both church groups brethren love us. And we love them. But SHAME on those that despise their holiness brethren.